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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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UltimaPooh
Member
Where did he say to appeal to WWC by taking up racist or sexist rhetoric?
Voter suppression, FBI announcements, and Russian propaganda arm
It's really scary that our Democracy is that vulnerable to these things
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
But he didn't say anything about whites being the only group.
Somewhere not in the US so you can escape.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Just go to Rochester.
Just do it.
Trust me, you'll like it here.
Just do it.
Trust me, you'll like it here.
Hope you like snow!
It's clearly a big part of what made voters go Trump. You aren't getting those voters back, so you need to get younger people and a more diverse coalition. You do that by registering more people and fighting voter ID laws
There's nothing wrong to say that Democrats lost because ignoring working families. Tying that to raising money from wealthy people politicizes it.
Are we saying that Democrats lost because of raising money from wealthy money? If not he should stop putting that in the same sentence and equating it.
There are wealthy people like Warren Buffet who is all for the betterment of the working class. Are we going to demonize them just to make a point?
Are we saying that Democrats lost because of raising money from wealthy money? If not he should stop putting that in the same sentence and equating it.
There are wealthy people like Warren Buffet who is all for the betterment of the working class. Are we going to demonize them just to make a point?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
lastflowers
Banned
lmao.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This is a damn good way of putting it, mind if I steal it?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Luckily for me, thanks to climate change, it will never snow in Rochester by the end of my fifth year.
The world will be on fire, but I won't have to deal with snow. Thanks Trump and McConnell.
excelsiorlef
Member
He was talking about sending abortion rights back to the states and when Leslie Stahl asked him how he would feel about women in some states not being allowed access to it he basically shrugged and said they'd have to move to another state. Whatever tax break I get is going to pro-choice funds.
UltimaPooh
Member
Who said we had to get em all back? I'm sure plenty didn't vote because of racism and sexism (tho they are willing to vote for someone that condones it) and I think a few things tailored their way without resorting to that rhetoric is entirely possible.
Turnout was up in the states that mattered. Exit polls in the Rust Belt states indicate that Trump won union voters, a group that Obama won. I haven't seen exit polls that stated that e-mails was a reason for switching votes, but I have seen ones where the reasons were economic.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If the rest of the world was a desert, it would still find a way to snow in Rochester
Snow starts later than it used to, 20 years ago (used to start in November, sometimes October, now it barely makes it to Christmas, sometimes not until mid January). But when it hits, it hits with a fury. It still ends around the same time, strangely enough. Usually petering out by April if we're lucky (snow in May has happened)
excelsiorlef
Member
It's funny you know going forward... the left is going to need rich charity folk to step up and essentially fill the gap of the government failing them....
Like billionaires gonna need to fund Planned Parenthood.
Meanwhile the Dems are risking going down the route of fuck the rich...all of them, which is a dangerous game.
So basically you're back to being without health insurance if you can't afford the high risk pool.
lastflowers
Banned
YOU CAN DO BOTH. That's EXACTLY what he was arguing for the entire time, and he won working class voters in the primary.
We lost with the intersectional candidate regardless.
Basically y'all got to deal with it yourselves.
I didn't expect anything less yet I'm still disappointed.
Bernie Sanders and his philosophy are dangerous to the functioning of a political party in our current climate. Money in politics is bad, EVERYONE knows this. Not even Democrats want to play this game. But I don't know how he expects Democrats to raise the money to win elections without wealthy donors. And no, not every candidate at every level of government is going to be able to effectively crowdfund like he did.
I mean, we all just finished bedwetting over how many congressional seats the Democrats have lost in the last 8 years, but lets not forget that a HUGE reason for that was the self-imposed restrictions on campaign financing that the Democrats instituted during the Obama administration. We chose the high road and went broke because of it. And this is EXACTLY what Bernie wants us to do now? NOW? Fuck. All. The. Way. Off.
I truly believe that a huge part of the reason establishment Democrats rushed to endorse Keith Ellison was not just because he's qualified for the job, but to drown out Bernie Sanders.
God, that man cannot be allowed to take over the party.
I mean, we all just finished bedwetting over how many congressional seats the Democrats have lost in the last 8 years, but lets not forget that a HUGE reason for that was the self-imposed restrictions on campaign financing that the Democrats instituted during the Obama administration. We chose the high road and went broke because of it. And this is EXACTLY what Bernie wants us to do now? NOW? Fuck. All. The. Way. Off.
I truly believe that a huge part of the reason establishment Democrats rushed to endorse Keith Ellison was not just because he's qualified for the job, but to drown out Bernie Sanders.
God, that man cannot be allowed to take over the party.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Our growing dependence on George Soros to provide social services is probably going to launch even more anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Malcolm X.
I remember when Octobers were cold (okay, "chilly") down here in Louisiana.
I miss cold Halloweens..
Yup. Clinton and the way many perceived her weren't good for this kind of voter. But the margins were small enough that better messaging and more effort to reach them very well could have made the difference.
Bolded is the key, these voters don't care about civil rights for marginalized people. They aren't a reliable voter block, what are we gonna do lie about getting rid of trade deals?
Not sure if you'd have people saying emails were why they decided to vote for Trump, but it plays into the "corrupt" rhetoric about Clinton and was all over the front pages of newpapers for a week right before the election. "Look, she's still guilty!" And it caused a polling swing
I'll never understand the raging hate boner some on the far left have for all rich people. Specific rich people, like say the Koch brothers, I can understand a degree of disdain but this idea that any money that comes from any wealthy donor is tainted or an example of "pay for play" is really annoying to me. It feels like playing into a stereotype that the Right has of the Left. Crowdfunding a campaign from say just small donors has its limits and until shit like Citizen's United is gone its going to be hard to compete with the Republican money machine using crowdfunding only.
Oh also because I don't think I've said it today yet Fuck Trump and all his swamp cronies
Oh also because I don't think I've said it today yet Fuck Trump and all his swamp cronies
UltimaPooh
Member
Again he said too much focus was on wealthy not that we should have a knee jerk reaction and go the complete opposite way.
No nuance for people here and Bernie's tweets.
No. We go for no brainers... drop trying to push single payer, stop pushing gun control, community outreach to see what else we might be able to help them out with. But just like some of the Bernie folk here HilGAF also have a scorched my way or the high way approach to this whole strategy.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Clinton wins states with highest inequality
Clinton also consistently won the poor in pretty much every state that wasn't a landslide for Bernie.
Because things like Donna Brazille optics makes everything a little suspect looks like a dealbreaker. We can't have it both ways. Either we say the little things don't matter, or everything matters.
A potential candidate like Stooge wants to run but is turned away because he was a ex-Goldman VP and his "potential ties" to wealthy people.
Sirpopopop
Member
As someone who has worked in union environments on the management side, yes, union workers can be very racist. They are also anti-free trade. If you have a candidate (Trump) who can combine the two, you have a win with them.
Remember, recent Republican candidates (Romney, McCain, Bush) were very pro-trade. Trump is the first to take a sharp stand against treaties like NAFTA. In previous years, Democrats were the ones who were more anti-free trade agreements.
Only way to win these votes is to become more isolationist. That's going to cost you minority votes.
This was a close election. Don't forget that. Any number of factors might open things back up in a big way. There's no reason to take a big risk in alienating key groups of the bloc to chase after fickle votes.
Remember, recent Republican candidates (Romney, McCain, Bush) were very pro-trade. Trump is the first to take a sharp stand against treaties like NAFTA. In previous years, Democrats were the ones who were more anti-free trade agreements.
Only way to win these votes is to become more isolationist. That's going to cost you minority votes.
This was a close election. Don't forget that. Any number of factors might open things back up in a big way. There's no reason to take a big risk in alienating key groups of the bloc to chase after fickle votes.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Wait, does that mean the Nazis were part of Windows 95 all along?
Frank the Great
Banned
Folks in OT are clamoring for Michael fucking Moore to lead a new left wing Democratic party movement.
Christ.
Christ.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I was really annoyed about how Bernie handled his defeat in the primary, but I don't see what's wrong with that tweet.
UltimaPooh
Member
He wants to run in Texas near San Antonio right? A Dem there is different than a rural Texas Dem.
And I don't know how having a debate over the nuance of a tweet is ignoring the little things.
Haha OMG... Jeez. Only celebrity I would take it Stewart... or Oprah.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
You work in politics, so I honestly expected you to know better. "Working class" has literally always meant "white working class." I actually agree a bit with Sanders' point here, but this post is really off the mark. Literally every post-mortem is about how Clinton lost because she lost the "working class" and it's about her lack of outreach to white people!
I was outside in a t shirt earlier today. Still haven't pulled down the winter clothes yet.
Oh no no, we did this during the primaries, we're not doing it now. I'm not allowing Bernie the benefit of nuance, when he himself isn't capable of it. The man is a blunt hammer.
Take his words at face value. He is slamming Democrats for raising money from donors. That's ALL he did during the primaries. But Democrats have to raise money to win elections. And they have to win elections to help those middle class families. It's not one or the other. You can and NEED to do both.
I mean, wtf does he think we're raising that money for? What pool does he think he drew from when he needed funding for his Senate races?
The man is such a hypocrite.
Frank the Great
Banned
Minorities don't give a fuck about free trade.
You bring up a good point though. It's interesting that Trump won basically by moving to the left of Democrats on trade. The election was not exactly a resounding endorsement of conservative policy. No one is reporting it that way though.
I'm not blaming Bernie for it. I don't think he himself understands the base of supporters that he has formed. But that's why it's more important for him to choose his words carefully.
Decreasing focus on the wealthy does not mean no focus on the wealthy. Hillary had a calendar with fundraisers in California, New York and Martha's Vineyard over a 45 day period in August and September and 0 visits to non-urban areas of Rust Belt states--she visited only Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Cleveland from August 16 to September 30, while visiting Martha's Vineyard multiple times along with visits to the Hamptons and Beverly Hills.
UltimaPooh
Member
He's an Independent how would he get access to DNC money?
Sirpopopop
Member
I should have been more clearer. I'm not referring to trade. I'm referring to immigration policy.
RustyNails
Member
The tax cut trickledown fairy will take care of everything.
excelsiorlef
Member
He heroicized Assange and turned rape apologist for him....
Wikileaks being successful and a factor in the US is partly his and other idiot lefites who fell over themselves to love Assange.
Fuck he still can't even repudiate him, he just says its Assanges hatred for Hillary Clinton (always her fault)
Can't even admit that Assange actually supports the far right.. no no got to be just an anarchy move.... Also fuck anarchists anyway.
Lost his way a little... LOL.... Micheal Moore is a great solider on some level but put him in charge and we're fucked.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-julian-assange-i-feel-like-he-s-drifted.html
Raising money from the wealthy != focusing on the wealthy.
Hillary Clinton fundraising was not what killed her campaign.
Until he starts banning them from events and such.
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