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[Diablos]

Rumor is the GOP is going to give Trump a $1 trillion infrastructure bill that mimics what Obama had been asking for.

Of course.

 

[Totakeke]

She was ahead of her time. She had to live through gender battles that younger women just didn't have to do. Because of the crap Hillary went through in the 90s, nobody bats an eye when Heidi Cruz makes more than her husband. But because of the crap Hillary went through in the 90s, lots of people just had an ingrained dislike of her.

It's the same reason Jesse Jackson didn't get to be the first black president. If there was any justice in the world, Obama would have been the second black president. But somebody earlier had to fight the hard battles and take the tarnished reputation for doing so. We'll get there, with hopefully way less lag time than between Jackson and Obama.

Also who can blame her for not being able to connect with the rural folks after all the shit she went through when Bill was governor?

 

[RastaMentality]

Rumor is the GOP is going to give Trump a $1 trillion infrastructure bill that mimics what Obama had been asking for.

Are we gonna get high speed trains?

 

[dramatis]

He's an Independent how would he get access to DNC money?

During his time as an independent in Congress, Sanders caucused with the Democrats. That means for his elections in Vermont, they would be willing to give him some money to retain his seat (though how he got his Senate seat, he screwed with the Dems for sure).

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sanders...r-pacs-links-to-wall-street-donors-1455300881

The battle over the influence of special interests began in earnest in New Hampshire. Mr. Sanders has been suggesting that Mrs. Clinton is influenced by Wall Street campaign donations. On Monday, she replied by drawing attention to Mr. Sanders’s 2006 race for the Senate, when he benefited from $200,000 in contributions from the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, known as the DSCC, which is charged with electing Democrats—and accepts significant contributions from Wall Street interests.

“Sen. Sanders took $200,000 from Wall Street firms, not directly but through the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee,” she told a rally in Manchester. “You know, there was nothing wrong with that. It hasn’t changed his view. Well, it didn’t change my view or my vote, either.”

There was an article waaaay back from the primary that noted Sanders attended fundraisers held by Democrats before.

Jeff Weaver's excuse was that "Sanders takes less than everybody else, so he should get a pass", but in essence that's admitting Sanders took Wall Street money, even though he makes a show of how he doesn't.

Purity is overrated. If you guys are in a rush to win by pandering to white working class, then a significant factor in winning low-level races is also money, so I don't see why you won't make exceptions for money but you would make exceptions for stances of morality that involve human equality. To be frank, it's unreasonable to want the poor and middle class people to fund your whole campaign because you were too proud to take from richer people.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/gingri...rump-aide-worked-in-finance-not-anti-semitic/

We've brought Antisemitism back baby.

What's quite sad about this is that the Hasidic Jew neighborhoods in NYC seems to have voted for Trump.

I'm really angry that Jason Lewis won in Minnesota. Like, I'm not going to hold all of this against Clinton, but she fucked up and got arrogant, and I'm mad that what was being gambled was my state (among others).

Here's what I think about MN, and it's partially formulated from another guy I know from MN. Right before the election, This American Life ran a podcast about Somali refugees in MN and how they were straining relations and white Minnesotans were getting agitated by 'too much change too fast'. I turned to my friend from MN, and said to him, your state might be in a bit of danger. He said to me, "Nah, Minnesota will never be red."

The fact is MN, not counting DC, has been the state that has stayed blue the longest in the recent history of presidential elections. It hasn't been red since 1972. And I had once joked to this friend, "MN is like Canada on this side of the border". But the reality is Minnesotans probably got a bit arrogant and complacent too. My friend says there have been speakers criss-crossing the state giving speeches warning about how dangerous refugees and Muslims are.

MN had (I think)1% margin between Hillary and Trump. While it has stayed blue the longest, in previous presidential elections, it has smaller margins between the D candidate and the R candidate than the super secure states like CA and NY, where the Democrat basically wins by at least 20%. The benefit NY has to always eat the rural areas of NY alive is that NYC has pretty much most of the population of NY state. But I don't know about MN. What I do know is that, there's been an influx of refugees into MN, and if that sparked some sort of problem, it might show in how the MN electorate votes.

 

[sphagnum]

Yes, the vast majority of the population believes Marx is trash.

That is because Marx is trash. Not because they're bowing down to corporate overlords.

I don't really get what that has to do with what I said but ok. I'm saying there can be wide variety within an ideological framework.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

it'll probably just be a 1 trillion dollar entitlement to private contractors

 

[Odrion]

the republicans actively worked on trying to roadblock the country's recovery after an economic collapse just so the democrats could look bad

they are fanatical and malevolent to the american people, and the sooner you realize this the better.

 

[lednerg]

What universe do you live in?

He won 5 or 6 out 17

which is about 29% of them

Washington for example: he won the binding caucus but lost the non binding primary which had a larger voting pool...

Yeah, Washington was about to switch Republican.

 

[kirblar]

I don't really get what that has to do with what I said but ok. I'm saying there can be wide variety within an ideological framework.

"Neoliberal" is not an actual term. It is a term that far-lefties tar anyone who's outside of their purity bubbles that they don't like with.

You cannot get anyone to give you a real definition because there is none. No one outside of the far left actually uses the term.

 

[adamsappel]

Taking the entire month of August off to raise money was a terrible idea. It gave Trump an entire month to freely recover from the terrible RNC and the aftermath of the DNC. And then Hillary came back, called a bunch of people deplorable and died on camera. She was only bailed out by an excellent debate performance by her and a trash can performance by Trump.

Am I recalling incorrectly that Trump spent most of August chewing on his own feet?

Agree regarding single payer, but we need to push gun control. Universal background checks is not a polarizing issue, and even if we stopped pushing gun control the NRA would continue its nonsense ads so I don't think that'd help.

And yet "liberals" are saying we need to drop guns as an issue.

if any of you are seriously thinking that obama may charm trump into being merciful you are delusional

And people are also delusional if they think Obama is going to criticize Trump. He's going to adhere to tradition and let Trump go his own way.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah, Washington was about to switch Republican.

You have no answer to anything I'm saying...

 

[lednerg]

I never said that...

That's not a response to me.

Again how is Harris/Kander a identity politics only ticket?

I know you didn't. This person did:

Kamala/Kander. I could dig it

No more old white tickets anymore.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I just don't know if we need a term that describes 98% of people.

That's like referring to a group as "Not Gluten Intolerant."

I mean... it's not really necessary?

 

[kirblar]

I know you didn't. This person did:

There are significant advantages to running a PoC for President. This is because not having to make explicit overtures to minority groups that scare off a certain segment of white people is sadly an actual benefit.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

"Neoliberal" somehow describes both Pinochet and Barack Obama and thus probably isn't a real term unless "Not a Communist and to the left of Paul Ryan on economics" is a group you need to define (you don't, it's 98% of people).

It describes how the Democratic Party has abandoned labor for 40 years. It requires an interest in the history of the party to understand. If the term "union" gives you shivers, then look into that.

Yeah, you can't just make up words and then fit the definitions to whatever you think they are. Words have meaning. If I just keep banging my fist on a desk and saying "Bernie Sanders is a parakeet!" it doesn't make him a bird, which is what that term means.

That study kirblar mentioned was an actual academic look into the word as it's used, and it's only consistent usage was in like the 70s for some small party in Chile or something. Other than that, a ton of stuff got called neoliberal without ever defining why it called that, and frequently things that were complete opposites were thrown into that bucket!

It's basically word that means "assholes" (or whatever insult you prefer, just an insult), but it's dressed up as something that sounds academic so your complaint sounds impartial instead of personal.

Repeat after me: Neoliberal is not a defined term. Neoliberal is not a defined term. Neoliberal is not...

 

[smurfx]

Imagine if Obama is like a precocious but wise child and he teaches the naive but violent monster Trump that killing is bad

Trump comes back with a week long retreat with Barry, arm in arm, telling horrified GOP staffers that he learned all about how great healthcare would be with single payer and how he never really knew how bad reproductive rights have gotten for women in this nation

would obama be mr satan and trump majin buu?

 

[Debirudog]

neoliberalism means that you essentially just let the entire market take care and everything would get better.

Obama and Hillary aren't actually neoliberals at all.

 

[Abinash117]

Rumor is the GOP is going to give Trump a $1 trillion infrastructure bill that mimics what Obama had been asking for.

Where did you get this? Mitch McConnell said it wasn't a top priority; they spend much of the year doing other things.

 

[sphagnum]

"Neoliberal" is not an actual term. It is a term that far-lefties tar anyone who's outside of their purity bubbles that they don't like with.

You cannot get anyone to give you a real definition because there is none. No one outside of the far left actually uses the term.

I don't really care if liberals don't like to use the term themelves. It's very handy for describing the resurgence of a focus on market solutions and economic liberalization following the turn towards social democratic/government solutions to issues in the 20th century. Some people throw it around willy nilly and that's dumb.

Stalinists also don't call themselves Stalinists, but it doesn't mean I wont.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I know you didn't. This person did:

So why you answerimg me with that...

Why is Harris/Kander an identity politics only ticket?

 

[kirblar]

I don't really care if liberals don't like to use the term themelves. It's very handy for describing the resurgence of a focus on market solutions and economic liberalization following the turn towards social democratic/government solutions to issues in the 20th century. Some people throw it around wily nilly and that's dumb.

Stalinists also don't call themselves Stalinists, but it doesn't mean I wont.

It's not a useful term. It's a slur.

 

[Joeytj]

Honestly, I doubt he has much interest or passion for policy in general. He'll say things to rile up his base and (occasionally) to mollify critics, but someone who has the attention span and lack of intellectual curiosity he has probably isn't someone too bothered by the details of actual policy discussion.

That's what has me worried - I actually think Trump will be more amenable to policy concessions than the people that will make up his administration and many/most of the Republicans in Congress (not because he's a "good guy", but rather because he's not a fanatic about abortion or gay rights or whatever).

I have a crazy/dream scenario in my mind, where Democrats manage to play enough to Trump's ego and manage to bypass Ryan and McConnell in Congress and get legislation passed on matters of infrastructure spending, family care, healthcare and maybe even some social issues, causing turmoil in his own administration and party, and Democrats manage to still run hard against Republicans while proving they can get things done better.

Chuck Schumer is actually closer to Trump than many Republicans:

Trump, 70, a Manhattan real-estate developer, had long been a patron of Schumer’s political operation, donating thousands to his previous campaigns and to Senate Democrats in years past, before he embarked on his presidential bid.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I imagine that Republican leadership recognizes that this is a unique opportunity to get as much of their shit done as they've wanted to for eight years and that it's their time to deliver before they lose control of one of the branches of government. Maybe they'll pass an infrastructure bill if it means getting Trump to repeal Medicare or something. He does love deals.

 

[sphagnum]

It's not a useful term. It's a slur.

I can only speak for myself but I have ever never once used "neoliberal" as a slur.

I just use "capitalist pig" for that.

 

[Suikoguy]

It's not a useful term. It's a slur.

Yeah, it basically has no meaning and always get's used in a negative manner.

 

[metalslimer]

Also lednerg you said that identity politics got us Trump. How was Clinton/Kaine identity politics? It seems you like using these words with no meaning

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

"Neoliberal" is attempted to be used as a slur, but it is not a slur because I don't think it could ever offend anyone.

Come on, now.

 

[dramatis]

I'm not interested in arguing semantics. Crab will be baffled again when he sees 'neoliberal' again.

It is remarkably useless to be arguing all these small petty things.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I can only speak for myself but I have ever never once used "neoliberal" as a slur.

I just use "capitalist pig" for that.

Not bourgeoisie liberal scum?

I'm disappointed.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Where did you get this? Mitch McConnell said it wasn't a top priority; they spend much of the year doing other things.

Prediction: trump will bully pulpit the hell out of congress until he gets his way

If he follows through with high speed rail and such I think we can all agree that that would be great for the country

 

[kirblar]

FOUND THE PAPER http://personal.lse.ac.uk/venugopr/venugopal2014augneoliberalism.pdf

This pape ris a critical exploration of the of the term neoliberalism. Drawing on a wide range of literature across the critical social sciencesand with particular emphasis on the political economy of development, it evaluates the consequences of its proliferation and expanded usage since the 1980s It advances a case that neoliberalism has become a deeply problematic and incoherent term that has multiple and contradictory meanings, and thus has diminished analytical value. In addition, the paper also explores the one-­‐sided, morally laden usage of the term by non-­‐economists to describe economic phenomena, and the way that this serves to signify and reproduce the divide etween economics and the rest of the social sciences.

It's a slur. Neoliberal is the left-wing equivalent of something like "Liberal Media". There is no good definition because it's definition is whatever the person who is using it is angry at.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

They wanted to win without having to vote. Now they're claiming Clinton is the problem because they sat out the election.

No, they are not. There's an actual academic study on the term that corroborates this.

Clinton and supporters of her ideology are the problem. And now hopefully liberals can do better for themselves with a different worldview and approach.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I would

Spoiler

not really

support Trump in 2020 if he gets me some high speed rail.

 

[metalslimer]

Prediction: trump will bully pulpit the hell out of congress until he gets his way

If he follows through with high speed rail and such I think we can all agree that that would be great for the country

Haha man you guys are optimistic. Everyone is projecting what they want onto Trump when he has surrounded himself with the worst scum imaginable.

 

[Joeytj]

I imagine that Republican leadership recognizes that this is a unique opportunity to get as much of their shit done as they've wanted to for eight years and that it's their time to deliver before they lose control of one of the branches of government. Maybe they'll pass an infrastructure bill if it means getting Trump to repeal Medicare or something. He does love deals.

If that does happen, then it will be both Trump's and the GOP's undoing.

Trump has been fairly consistent with leaving Medicare and SS intact, and there are no Republicans with any credibility left enough to them to convince the public otherwise. Maybe some senators like Portman or a unknown governor or two.

Democrats, for al ltheir failings in this election, still have far more popular politicians in their group, from Warren, Bernie, to both Obama's. Heck, Joe Biden will probably not stay quiet during the Trump years. All of them will constantly oppose Ryan's right-wing agenda.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump will say he got the trains to run on time.

FOUND THE PAPER http://personal.lse.ac.uk/venugopr/venugopal2014augneoliberalism.pdf



It's a slur. It's the left-wing equivalent of something like "Liberal Media"

Everyone calls me a neoliberal and I don't give a shit, I just roll my eyes. Who cares, it's impossible to be offended by this term. It means nothing, but come on now.

 

[Mike M]

Christ, I am emotionally exhausted after this past week. I can't help but think about how awful Bush was, and how we had to fight for every scintilla of progress we got in the face of GOP opposition, only to now face not only loosing it but winding up even worse than we were under Bush.

16 fucking years of anxiety, and I'm coming around to very real possibility that this is the status quo for the rest of my fucking life.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I am conflicted on whether "neoliberal" or "bourgeoisie" is better.

One sounds a lot more classic, but I can't fucking spell bourgeoisie

 

[sphagnum]

I am conflicted on whether "neoliberal" or "bourgeoisie" is better.

One sounds a lot more classic, but I can't fucking spell bourgeoisie

Bourgeoisie is a class, you don't get to call yourself that.

Neoliberal!

 

[kirblar]

Mr. Robot is a scarily, scarily prescient show, btw.

Highly recommend people watch it.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Haha man you guys are optimistic. Everyone is projecting what they want onto Trump when he has surrounded himself with the worst scum imaginable.

Well, infra spending is one of his campaign promises. And I still do want what's best for the country.

I know about the freaky cabinet choices, btw. Doesn't mean infrastructure spending wouldn't be a great thing.

 

[Joeytj]

Who wants to bet that Trump won't actually forfeit his Presidential salary like says, and just find a way to still get it?

 

[lednerg]

You have no answer to anything I'm saying...

You haven't proven the exit polls wrong that Independents would've voted for Sanders.

People. Didn't. Like. Hillary. Clinton.

Not even white women. The approval ratings have said this for a while. The problem was, the DNC was planning on running her since 2008 and never had anything else in mind. They had no plan B, and when one presented itself with Sanders, they rejected it because it didn't align with their donors' wishes.

So it's either most working class people are racists, like the media figures insinuate (in order to cover their asses), or there's was something wrong with her and the platform she reluctantly settled with. People are fed up with the political elite - they're suffering and half-measures like Obamacare and the bailouts haven't helped them. This should have been clear to the experts since 2010.

You scoff at newcomers like Nina Turner but she got crowds of tens of thousands energized every time. Trump did too. This idea that people need loads of experience to have a chance was completely disproven in 2008, and you all forgot the lesson. They want charismatic figures who don't come off as being typical, fake politicians - people who are angry for them and put forward a plan that addresses their everyday lives.

 

[sc0la]

Of course.

lolllll
So they knew all along it would work and just opposed it because it wasn't their guy?

shits infuriating.

 

[kirblar]

You haven't proven the exit polls wrong that Independents would've voted for Sanders.

People. Didn't. Like. Hillary. Clinton.

Not even white women. The approval ratings have said this for ages. The problem was, the DNC was planning on running her since 2008 and never had anything else in mind. They had no plan B, and when one presented itself with Sanders, they rejected it because it didn't align with their donors' wishes.

So it's either most working class people are racists, like the media figures insinuate (in order to cover their asses), or there's was something wrong with her and the platform she reluctantly settled with. People are fed up with the political elite - they're suffering and half-measures like Obamacare and the bailouts haven't helped them. This should have been clear to the experts since 2010.

You scoff at newcomers like Nina Turner but she got crowds of tens of thousands energized every time. Trump did too. This idea that people need loads of experience to have a chance was completely disproven in 2008, and you all forgot the lesson. They want charismatic figures who don't come off as being typical, fake politicians - people who are angry for them and put forward a plan that addresses their everyday lives.

If you think "The DNC" is the reason the deck was cleared for Clinton, you have absolutely no idea what the DNC is.

 

[Abinash117]

Prediction: trump will bully pulpit the hell out of congress until he gets his way

If he follows through with high speed rail and such I think we can all agree that that would be great for the country

Sometimes going against or working with the president is good politics. They have other things to focus on, but doing something like a one trillion dollar infrastructure plan is hyper complicated. Trying to figure out who gets the money, where does the money come from, what exactly is going to be focused on( roads, bridges, landscape, what buildings, highways, railways,ports, terrain, neighborhoods etc), what companies will get on board, the planning, etc . I think it will take far more effort than getting ACA passed. You are banking on Trump being any sort of competent in terms of this stuff and somehow making allies to pass it.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-infrastructure-plan-faces-speed-bumps-1478884989

I doubt some Democrats will be okay with some of it as it will most not be realistic. I think Trump likes building things and knows somethings need to be fixed, but to me Trump pretty much just wanted to get a bigger number than Clinton.

 

[sc0la]

Who wants to bet that Trump won't actually forfeit his Presidential salary like says, and just find a way to still get it?

Why he can't shelter it in a shell company. He'll probably try to see if he can donate it all to his foundation without paying taxes (then spend it on himself and his friends)

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

lolllll
So they knew all along it would work and just opposed it because it wasn't their guy?

shits infuriating.

It really is. Thinking it over, they may not even truly support it. But Trump dragged them into office and has a hold on their base so they may be forced to.

 

[SerAardvark]

Who wants to bet that Trump won't actually forfeit his Presidential salary like says, and just find a way to still get it?

I actually wouldn't be surprised if he sticks with this one...only because I'm sure he's found some way to monetize his presidency in a way that will make him more money than the salary would.

 

[Totakeke]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if he sticks with this one...only because I'm sure he's found some way to monetize his presidency in a way that will make him more money than the salary would.

His children controls his companies and his children is also in the administration.