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[Retromelon]

Not to mention the fact that Hillary fanatics were smearing Bernie supporters well after Bernie had pledged to support Clinton this time around.

Sanders fans were vehemently against Clinton because they feared and expected this eventuality. I'm not going to be preached to about what not to do next time around by people that got us into this goddamned catastrophe one "YAS QUEEN" at a time.

As someone who was made fun of on poligaf for donating to the sanders campaign a few days before they conceded the nomination, until it's certain that Bernie would have done better against trump, the aggression to the hillary folks is unnecessary

 

[And_Gignac]

Not to mention the fact that Hillary fanatics were smearing Bernie supporters well after Bernie had pledged to support Clinton this time around.

Sanders fans were vehemently against Clinton because they feared and expected this eventuality. I'm not going to be preached to about what not to do next time around by people that got us into this goddamned catastrophe one "YAS QUEEN" at a time.

nnnn.

They are still trying the blame game against Bernie, as if a brutal majority of his supporters during the primary didnt vote for Clinton in the general. I mean, cmon, Jill Stein was barely able to scratch 1% of the vote.

They really have ZERO standing on this.

 

[Totakeke]

"Let's not demonize the people who voted for Trump."

"Hey let's totally demonize the people who allowed Clinton to be the democratic candidate. ANGER."

nnnn.

They are still trying the blame game against Bernie, as if a brutal majority of his supporters during the primary didnt vote for Clinton in the general. I mean, cmon, Jill Stein was barely able to scratch 1% of the vote.

They really have ZERO standing on this.

Don't bring your anger for specific people or other places to other people or into places who didn't initiate it. Unless your whole point is that you want to generalize people into groups.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

"Let's not demonize the people who voted for Trump."

"Hey let's totally demonize the people who allowed Clinton to be the democratic candidate. ANGER."

The people in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania that we lost to Trump were lost because we nominated a mediocre, establishment candidate who couldn't be bothered to talk to them. Your fake quotes aren't indicative of contradictory sentiments.

Don't bring your anger for specific people or other places to other people or into places who didn't initiate it. Unless your whole point is that you want to generalize people into groups.

Poligaf OT threads were just as ripe with that bullshit as any other. You're going to have to wait a little longer before you try to retcon that out of existence.

 

[And_Gignac]

Nah, I was around 2008, it wasn't as bad as it is now. I supported Obama over Clinton.

The one doing revisionism is you.




Can you fucking stop with the "YAAAAS QUEEN" mockery? That shit's the kind of shit we expect from Trump supporters.

This is why there's no unity.

It is bad now because Clinton failed to win due to a correct argument the other camp had. Imagine Obama losing to McCain, we would be living a 10x bigger drama.

 

[Totakeke]

The people in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania that we lost to Trump were lost because we nominated a mediocre, establishment candidate who couldn't be bothered to talk to them. Your fake quotes aren't indicative of contradictory sentiments.

They're not contradictory, no, not at all.

 

[Chichikov]

Not to mention the fact that people were smearing Bernie supporters well after Bernie had pledged to support Clinton this time around.

People were vehemently against Clinton because they feared and expected this eventuality. I'm not going to be preached to about what not to do next time around by people that got us into this goddamned catastrophe one "YAS QUEEN" at a time.

I don't know about that.
I got the sense that most people were against Clinton because they didn't like her as a candidate or really really really liked Sanders.

Yeah, the argument of electability was floated around, but it was mostly as an appeal to voters and later superdelegates. I think that's a fair argument to made in a primary, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say that -
a. many Sanders supporters believed that Trump is going to beat her
b. the main reason people supported Sanders is because they thought he was more electable
c. the dislike of Hillary was mostly grounded in fears about her electability


p.s.
While I'm not freaking out over this infighting just yet - I remember 2004, and the whole "we got to throw the gays under the bus if we want to win" was way worse than what I'm seeing now.
And you know what, after a devastating lose it's okay to lash out a bit even if it's not the most productive thing to do.
But FFS people (and I'm not talking specifically to you of course; this is for everyone) - get that shit out of your system because there will be tough fights ahead, fights were almost all liberals are going to be on the same side.

And don't worry, in time we should and will have a good discussion about what kind of leader the Democratic party needs.

 

[Retromelon]

All the ineffectual rage over sanders losing is pissing in the wind anyway; Hillary won because she had cred with minorities and Bernie didn't. I love him as much as or more than anybody but come on.

Stop being salty and try to make the future brighter instead of the present tiresome to read

 

[Totakeke]

Poligaf OT threads were just as ripe with that bullshit as any other. You're going to have to wait a little longer before you try to retcon that out of existence.

Is this like how muslims should stand up to the extremist muslims?

 

[Sirpopopop]

I'm not unifying behind people that just cost us the most critical fucking election in a generation by forcing a candidate on us that everyone thought was safe but nobody actually liked. We unified behind your shit candidate and we're paying the price now. Never again.

Own the embarrassing rhetoric that was spewed on this forum and that'll be a start towards reconciliation.

Yeah, this is why I'm not voting Dem on a national level in 2018 & 2020. Just leaving those blank.

Thanks for clarifying why I need to stay strong in this decision.

 

[Odrion]

how did we lose florida

 

[Laevateinn]

I don't know about that.
I got the sense that most people were against Clinton because they didn't like her as a candidate or really really really liked Sanders.

Yeah, the argument of electability was floated around, but it was mostly as an appeal to voters and later superdelegates. I think that's a fair argument to made in a primary, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say that -
a. many Sanders supporters believed that Trump is going to beat her
b. the main reason people supported Sanders is because they thought he was more electable
c. the dislike of Hillary was mostly grounded in fears about her electability


p.s.
While I'm not freaking out over this infighting just yet - I remember 2004, and the whole "we got to throw the gays under the bus if we want to win" was way worse than what I'm seeing now.
And you know what, after a devastating lose it's okay to lash out a bit even if it's not the most productive thing to do.
But FFS people (and I'm not talking specifically to you of course; this is for everyone) - get that shit out of your system because there will be tough fights ahead, fights were almost all liberals are going to be on the same side.

And don't worry, in time we should and will have a good discussion about what kind of leader the Democratic party needs.

Channel that anger towards the appropriate people: Republicans.

Socialism never came to America because if you go to a protest there's thirty socialist organizations with tables selling literature and they all hate each other more than they hate the Capitalist.

 

[Hindl]

how did we lose florida

We were always going to lose Florida. Record minority turnout so can't blame them. The panhandle just came out in droves and overpowered the minority vote

Yeah, this is why I'm not voting Dem on a national level in 2018 & 2020. Just leaving those blank.

Thanks for clarifying why I need to stay strong in this decision.

We are so fucked

 

[Beer Monkey]

Channel that anger towards the appropriate people: Republicans.

Socialism never came to America because if you go to a protest there's thirty socialist organizations with tables selling literature and they all hate each other more than they hate the Capitalist.

You're goddamn right.

Vote (D) always in the general election and get as many people as you possibly can to do the same.

You want to change the establishment (DNC for example) you do that outside of the general election.

Trying to make a point (abstaining or voting 3rd party) inside of the general election is for privileged assholes.

 

[And_Gignac]

"Let's not demonize the people who voted for Trump."

"Hey let's totally demonize the people who allowed Clinton to be the democratic candidate. ANGER."



Don't bring your anger for specific people or other places to other people or into places who didn't initiate it. Unless your whole point is that you want to generalize people into groups.

I am talking about some of the leading people on Clinton´s camp. People like Peter Daou, who are still going on and on and on about how "anyone" (aka Bernie supporters) who dared to criticize Clinton is at fault of Trump winning.

 

[Odrion]

I don't know about that.
I got the sense that most people were against Clinton because they didn't like her as a candidate or really really really liked Sanders.

Yeah, the argument of electability was floated around, but it was mostly as an appeal to voters and later superdelegates. I think that's a fair argument to made in a primary, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say that -
a. many Sanders supporters believed that Trump is going to beat her
b. the main reason people supported Sanders is because they thought he was more electable
c. the dislike of Hillary was mostly grounded in fears about her electability


p.s.
While I'm not freaking out over this infighting just yet - I remember 2004, and the whole "we got to throw the gays under the bus if we want to win" was way worse than what I'm seeing now.
And you know what, after a devastating lose it's okay to lash out a bit even if it's not the most productive thing to do.
But FFS people (and I'm not talking specifically to you of course; this is for everyone) - get that shit out of your system because there will be tough fights ahead, fights were almost all liberals are going to be on the same side.

And don't worry, in time we should and will have a good discussion about what kind of leader the Democratic party needs.

can we still hate "yaaaaas queen"?

 

[Wilsongt]

can we still hate "yaaaaas queen"?

YAAAAAAAAAS QUEEEEEEEEEN

Sorry. Relfex.

FUCK EMAILS STEIN

 

[Totakeke]

I am talking about some of the leading people on Clinton´s camp. People like Peter Daou will are still going on and on and on how "anyone" (aka Bernie supporters) who dared to criticize Clinton is at fault of Trump winning.

I don't know him but sure, quote him when you're criticizing Clinton supporters. If what you say is true then I could be supportive of your criticism.

 

[Astaleview]

This election is too much. My supervisor was so emotional on Wednesday she forgot to make sure I got paid correctly. So I missed a day on my next paycheck I had to tell her to correct it.

Fucking America man.

 

[neurosisxeno]

I think the simple fact about Clinton's electability, is that those who followed politics allowed themselves to be blinded by her experience and qualifications, and ignore just how vehemently people didn't like her--or more importantly how little they trusted her. Hillary didn't just suddenly become disliked and untrustworthy in the public eye, she had that before the primaries.

I don't regret switching my support from Sanders to Clinton, I am a Democrat after all, but I always worried about how others viewed her. I've never spent so much time trying to correct (mis)information about a political candidate, or seen such a reluctance to support them publicly. I also ignored the fact that even in Deep Blue VT I saw hundreds of Trump lawn signs and literally 0 for Clinton, when I live in the most liberal county in VT. When I noticed that a week before the election I started Diablosing hard, and I should have realized this was going to happen sooner than I did.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

They're not contradictory, no, not at all.

Remind me again: who did Michigan fall for in the Democratic primaries? That should have been more than enough indication that the Rust Belt needed attention that never came.

I don't know about that.
I got the sense that most people were against Clinton because they didn't like her as a candidate or really really really liked Sanders.

Yeah, the argument of electability was floated around, but it was mostly as an appeal to voters and later superdelegates. I think that's a fair argument to made in a primary, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say that -
a. many Sanders supporters believed that Trump is going to beat her
b. the main reason people supported Sanders is because they thought he was more electable
c. the dislike of Hillary was mostly grounded in fears about her electability


p.s.
While I'm not freaking out over this infighting just yet - I remember 2004, and the whole "we got to throw the gays under the bus if we want to win" was way worse than what I'm seeing now.
And you know what, after a devastating lose it's okay to lash out a bit even if it's not the most productive thing to do.
But FFS people (and I'm not talking specifically to you of course; this is for everyone) - get that shit out of your system because there will be tough fights ahead, fights were almost all liberals are going to be on the same side.

And don't worry, in time we should and will have a good discussion about what kind of leader the Democratic party needs.

We didn't like her because she had enough political baggage to stall a freight train. That was true with or without the unforced errors but especially in light of the email scandal that we were mocked for being concerned about. There was a wind of populist enthusiasm rising in the nation that ran counter to the candidate that the DNC obviously preferred.

HRC had the strongest set of advocates that a Democratic nominee has ever had and still lost. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about the candidate, nothing will.

Channel that anger towards the appropriate people: Republicans.

Socialism never came to America because if you go to a protest there's thirty socialist organizations with tables selling literature and they all hate each other more than they hate the Capitalist.

Republicans didn't lose this election for us. We lost the Rust Belt because our establishment candidate felt that she didn't need to talk to or acknowledge them in order to get their votes.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

how did we lose florida

I believe I heard that Cuban american's went for Trump around 55% of the time, and other latino american's went with him more like 25% of the time. Also, reduced turn out in other groups, probably lost us Florida.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I hope people learned from this election not to read too much into early voting.

 

[Toxi]

I believe I heard that Cuban american's went for Trump around 55% of the time, and other latino american's went with him more like 25% of the time. Also, reduced turn out in other groups, probably lost us Florida.

Cuban Americans going for Republicans is nothing new.

 

[Crocodile]

As long as some Sanders supporters waste energy being upset at the DNC or think things were rigged against Sanders or whatever, the longer we will spend lost in the wilderness. Nobody forced Clinton on anybody - she fairly won more votes in the Democratic primary. She put in the ground work over decades working with Democratic voters (especially minority voters) and was able to use that experience to garner support. It's not her fault Sanders didn't do these things because he spent most of his career as an independent. Doing anything except accepting the above is a waste of everybody's time.

So what do we do next? Look at what both Clinton and Sanders did well:

Clinton (strong minority outreach; strong social justice focus; expertise in a wide range of topics; good at coalition building)

Sanders (correctly understood and tapped into economic populism; could sell authenticity and outsider status, even though he's been in Washington for decades, at a time when trust in establishment is low)

Now what has often worked for Democrats in the past? Young, charismatic candidates. Combine all of the above and you have a winning candidate. This is easier said than done but it seems to me the blueprint is pretty clear?

 

[Kusagari]

I believe I heard that Cuban american's went for Trump around 55% of the time, and other latino american's went with him more like 25% of the time. Also, reduced turn out in other groups, probably lost us Florida.

Hillary got better numbers than most of us ever dreamed of in FL.

Nobody could have predicted there was 500k+ rural voters in the Panhandle and I-4 area that never vote normally rearing to come out for Trump.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The issue with open primaries is you get people who aren't with the party voting in someone that might not actually represent the most of the actual Democrats. It could be a reverse situation of Bernie/Clinton deal. Not wanting to vote for a person you don't think represents you.

The important thing I believe is get people to become part of the process and become Democrats. Some of those voters who tend to be young( but not all the time) don't appear to be dedicated to the party and are not very reliable voters. Work should be done to make the reliable Democratic voters.

Also consider for 2020 open primary, assuming Trump stays as incumbent, literally the entire GOP voter base (if they wanted to) could just show up and vote in the Democratic primary to try and get the weakest candidate through.

 

[Chichikov]

can we still hate "yaaaaas queen"?

Politically?
Sure.
But hating on Broad City is against the TOS and will get you banned.

I am talking about some of the leading people on Clinton´s camp. People like Peter Daou, who are still going on and on and on about how "anyone" (aka Bernie supporters) who dared to criticize Clinton is at fault of Trump winning.

This happens after every losing campaign, people looking for someone to blame.
By the way what you are doing is also normal as is what I'm doing.

Trump's election is crazy, but what's going right now in the DNC and liberals is really par for the course.

It's fine, get it out of your system man, and fuck, if you feel like kicking people while their down through some snark at Clinton supporters if you must, I know it will make you feel better (not being sarcastic here, I know it does, and I'm not above such things, especially when shit goes *really* bad, though luckily I have an outlet in sports so I can always direct my frustrations toward FUCK YOU PATS, FUCK YOU BRADY, FUCK YOU KRAFT, FUCK YOU BELICHICK, TWICE).

Moreover, I'm fucking certain liberals will close rank come 2020, it's way easier to come together when you're the opposition party. It's not my first shit-rodeo.

Just, you know, try not to ruin friendships or make lasting enemies, and try to finish this phase as soon as possible, because shit will start coming down the pipe that will require unified effort to fight.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Hillary got better numbers than most of us ever dreamed of in FL.

Nobody could have predicted there was 500k+ rural voters in the Panhandle and I-4 area that never vote normally rearing to come out for Trump.

The Confederacy had another breath left

 

[whyamihere]

Hmm, not here for those on the right who are defending the EC as saying without it we would go into civil war and secession.

I hope people learned from this election not to read too much into early voting.

Except, weirdly, Nevada.

 

[whyamihere]

dp, sorry.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Oh jesus fucking Christ, John Bolton is the Secretary of State front-runner.

We are really going to invade Iran.

I hope these "leftie" fucks who wrote those dumbfuck articles on "Trump isn't as hawkish as Hillary!" go and dunk themselves in a toilet if Bolton is nominated.

 

[B-Dubs]

Hillary got better numbers than most of us ever dreamed of in FL.

Nobody could have predicted there was 500k+ rural voters in the Panhandle and I-4 area that never vote normally rearing to come out for Trump.

Turnout in general was insane in Florida. Clinton's team basically hit the ceiling in terms of turning out the vote and god know where all those rural voters came from.

 

[Abstrusity]

Turnout in general was insane in Florida. Clinton's team basically hit the ceiling in terms of turning out the vote and god know where all those rural voters came from.

Literally the middle of nowhere. Literally.

 

[Mizerman]

Turnout in general was insane in Florida. Clinton's team basically hit the ceiling in terms of turning out the vote and god know where all those rural voters came from.

Pretty much. Didn't see it coming at all.

 

[Doc Holliday]

We were always going to lose Florida. Record minority turnout so can't blame them. The panhandle just came out in droves and overpowered the minority vote



We are so fucked

Even after this election, people never learn :/

This is as depressing as the election results. Democrats need every vote we can get and when you people throw it away by throwing a tantrum, I'ts so fucking sad sad. Especially for us brown folks who bear the brunt of the next few years,

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I like how Trump was able to find the missing Confederates in Florida even though he had no operation whatsoever in Florida.



I guess you don't need a volunteer to knock on your door to get you to vote if you've finally found your presidential White Whale.

 

[Toxi]

Turnout in general was insane in Florida. Clinton's team basically hit the ceiling in terms of turning out the vote and god know where all those rural voters came from.

Which is something a lot of post-mortems miss. Not every state was Michigan or Wisconsin. Clinton not winning Florida is bizarre and something the Democratic Party needs to understand. They put in incredible resources with incredible results and still lost; resources that could have easily gone to other states.

 

[RastaMentality]

Ellison has his own logo for DNC Chair lol.

 

[Totakeke]

Oh jesus fucking Christ, John Bolton is the Secretary of State front-runner.

We are really going to invade Iran.

I hope these "leftie" fucks who wrote those dumbfuck articles on "Trump isn't as hawkish as Hillary!" go and dunk themselves in a toilet if Bolton is nominated.

That's one argument against Hillary I never quite understood.

Also from the 60 minutes interview it seems Trump is adamant on his surprise attack strategy. Can't wait till the generals brief him that the middle East coalition is fickle and that there's no way for him to launch a surprise attack without having themselves be surprised by the outcome. Maybe he'll send actual ground troops to solve that. Maybe he'll just saw screw it and just nuke everything. That'll be a real surprise attack.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I guess enthusiasm matters a lot more than a strong GOTV operation.

Except, weirdly, Nevada.

I don't have he numbers in front of me, but from what I recall she still greatly underperformed there. Were the early voting results that good? She only won it by what, 2%?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I guess enthusiasm matters a lot more than a strong GOTV operation.

I don't think Trump really turned out too many new people outside of Florida.

But those Confederates in Florida were fucking amped.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I like Keith Ellison a lot, but damn I can already see the GOP hammering hard on the nation of Islam. They are going to turn into a Isis US cell :/

PS Obama dropping truth bombs

 

[tuffy]

Oh jesus fucking Christ, John Bolton is the Secretary of State front-runner.

We are really going to invade Iran.

I hope these "leftie" fucks who wrote those dumbfuck articles on "Trump isn't as hawkish as Hillary!" go and dunk themselves in a toilet if Bolton is nominated.

Once the "Liberate Iran" yard signs start sprouting, then this administration really will be Dubya 2.0.

 

[chadskin]

Oh jesus fucking Christ, John Bolton is the Secretary of State front-runner.

We are really going to invade Iran.

I hope these "leftie" fucks who wrote those dumbfuck articles on "Trump isn't as hawkish as Hillary!" go and dunk themselves in a toilet if Bolton is nominated.

Yep.

 

[Incognito]

Obama with some shade at HRC, right?

 

[B-Dubs]

Pretty much. Didn't see it coming at all.

Literally no one saw it coming. She basically hit the zenith of Democratic turnout, they found literally every vote and got each one of them to the polls.

Which is something a lot of post-mortems miss. Not every state was Michigan or Wisconsin. Clinton not winning Florida is bizarre and something the Democratic Party needs to understand.

I have a feeling both parties are going to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what the hell happened in Florida because no one seems to understand it at all. The GOP will want to know how to replicate it and the Dems will want to know how to prevent it. I have a feeling this is the end of Florida as a swing state, if one side can crack the code and the other can't then it's theirs.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So Obama is speaking on TV

Talking about alot of the things Dems should focus on

Mentions how the population is split, brings up that he spent 87 days in Iowa. Very thoughtful stuff.

No link, its on tv and on phone :X

 

[RustyNails]

Bolton? We're so fucking fucked.

 

[Chezzymann]

Obama with some shade at HRC, right?

Yeah I interpreted that as a direct reference to her ignoring Michigan and Minnesota