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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
2nLwd.gif


this is gonna be fun!
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
Fenderputty said:
So we should ignore an actual data point for your anecdote. Gotcha.
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Well, the actual data says nothing about a general down-ballot race with Bernie's campaign lobbying and advocating to get those votes in. What we have is, literally, in the context of a general campaign, nothing. And since the likelihood of him winning the nomination is low; certain scenarios are probably never seeing the light of day.... it's just a disagreement of mine with some posters on poligaf. I am just betting on the positive horse - not the doom and gloom scenario where the youth vote completely abandons Dem down-ballot in a general just because wisconsin and primaries data... The data does serve a purpose, more of a reminder of sorts if Bernie were to win. A top priority in a to-do-list bucket.

Black Mamba said:
your entire argument is "I feel like it's better organized cuz I got them feels."

I'm sorry if we're not going to take you seriously. Your argumentt sounds like a GOP tax plan.
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I don't take seriously the simple counter-argument that organization is only measured by numbers without a lick of care for context or any other factor there of;....which is the only counter-argument worth a cent thrown around. In the end, I just see it as another opinion - which I respect and pretty much weight in in my rationale but clearly didn't play enough to sway a different conclusion.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Oh no, what did I start. I just wanted a prettier avatar for NYCMetsFan.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Atomic Playboy said:
I don't think it's fair to ask Bernie to apologize to Sandy Hook victims, but that was a very poor response on his part.
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Yeah, exactly my view. Good opportunity for him to take the high road there and he blew it.
But i'm unfortable with the way Hillary has attacked Sanders on guns, it comes across way too much as an appeal to emotion, when she rarely uses that tactic.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Suikoguy said:
Yeah, exactly my view. Good opportunity for him to take the high road there and he blew it.
But i'm unfortable with the way Hillary has attacked Sanders on guns, it comes across way too much as an appeal to emotion, when she rarely uses that tactic.
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Well, the fact is he's been on the wrong side of both major pieces of gun control legislation he's seen.

Gun control is inherently an emotional issue. People die because of a lack of it, trying to divorce the issue from that real truth is doing it a disservice. All arguments made in support of gun control will, inevitably, touch upon this one truth.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
KELLY: [Y]ou don’t favor a rape or an incest exception to abortion and for people like me, this may be a problem in getting behind President Ted Cruz. They think you may be too far right on social issues.

CRUZ: Well, listen, let’s talk – you know, when it comes to rape, I’ve spent a lot of years in law enforcement. I was the solicitor general in the state of Texas and I have handled cases with horrific cases of rape, of people who committed child rape, people – I went before the U.S. Supreme Court and argued in defense of state laws imposing capital punishment for the very worst child rapists. And when it comes to rape, rape is a horrific crime against the humanity of a person and needs to be punished and punished severely but at the same time, as horrible as that crime is, I don’t believe it’s the child’s fault. And we weep at the crime. We want to do everything we can to prevent the crime on the front end and to punish the criminal, but I don’t believe it makes sense to blame the child.
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Won't someone think of the rapists' child...?
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Actually straw poll or whatever. I'm curious on whether and where people would fall on repealing the second amendment. Setting aside the impossibility.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
Honestly I'll defend him. The question is ludicrous and he posits a similar analogy for Hillary. That being said...you don't want to say that shit out loud, Sanders. Let someone on Reddit say that and get upvoted 2000 times.
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It's not even a good deflection.

His campaign is (correctly) leveraging the terribleness of the Iraq War, you don't draw the parallel between a mistake there and a mistake on gun control here and imply all candidates should lick their own wounds over indirect deaths!


But the question is still sooooo shit, manipulative shit.

I will definitely defend his general idea of "what the fuck is question, checked the other candidate over there and the Iraq War!", but the parallels shouldn't be traced in the first place.
 
T

Tranqueris

Banned
Speaking of Bernie and guns, I was trying to find some kind of comparison between the gun industry and the tobacco industry and found this.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/12/01/3715552/gun-lobby-tobacco-industry/

In late 1999, the Clinton administration announced it would join the efforts: The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) vowed to pursue a lawsuit against the firearms industry, on behalf of public housing authorities who spent billions annually trying to protect residents from gun violence.
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The approach showed early dividends. In March 2000, Smith & Wesson agreed to a settlement that included a promise that the company would provide safety locking devices, invest in smart gun technology to limit use to the proper owner, limit magazine capacity for its new firearms, cut off dealers and distributors with a history of selling to criminals, and prevent authorized dealers from selling at gun shows where any arm sales are permitted without background checks.
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So it seems like they were making real progress but Bernie still opposes lawsuits against the gun industry because why?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
shinra-bansho said:
Actually straw poll or whatever. I'm curious on whether and where people would fall on repealing the second amendment. Setting aside the impossibility.
Click to expand...

If I were given the choice I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat. The pain and hurt it causes more than outstrips any benefits it might have. That said, I know it's impossible and would be more than OK with just very strict gun control regulations.

T'Zariah said:
Isn't it like political suicide to run on repealing the gun laws in NYC or even the rural areas?
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In the city? For damn sure, even Republicans don't run on repealing gun control measures. I feel safe in saying that it's more than likely that everyone who lives in this city will be touched by gun violence at one time in their lives, if they live here long enough.

Honestly, for the rural areas I couldn't say. But the city holds most of the power in the state so when it comes to statewide elections, yes it is suicide.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Wilsongt said:
Won't someone think of the rapists' child...?
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It's morally consistent to think that life begins at conception and be against abortion in all circumstances, even rape or incest. We may think that it is morally repugnant, but it is consistent. It's actually a little strange that some people think life begins at conception but it's OK to kill a living being if it's the product of rape or incest. So while I strongly disagree with Cruz on his abortion stance, I can understand the logic of it better than the "pro-life with exceptions" people.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
My nuance on guns is all but gone, I'm the boogeyman the Republicans point to in their stumps.

Repeal the second amendment.
 
T

T'Zariah

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
Actually straw poll or whatever. I'm curious on whether and where people would fall on repealing the second amendment. Setting aside the impossibility.
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In a goddamn heartbeat.

I imagine there are a lot of politicians on the Hill who feel that way, but won't ever say it, publicly.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
shinra-bansho said:
Actually straw poll or whatever. I'm curious on whether and where people would fall on repealing the second amendment. Setting aside the impossibility.
Click to expand...

I'd get rid of it on the grounds that when it was written it made sense, but now it does not.

War is totally different now.
Rebelling against the government with guns is totally different now.
There are no militias anymore, and the national guard would still have guns.

You would have to convience the military to go against their own families and people they know, and that requires a special situation to occur, a situation that guns would likely not prevent.


On the realistic side, a gradual progression towards reducing the number of guns in the country is our best bet. I don't see how 'pulling the band-aid off all at once' would not cause lots of trouble.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
GnawtyDog said:
I don't take seriously the simple counter-argument that organization is only measured by numbers without a lick of care for context or any other factor there of;....which is the only counter-argument worth a cent thrown around. In the end, I just see it as another opinion - which I respect and pretty much weight in in my rationale but clearly didn't play enough to sway a different conclusion.
Click to expand...

But what's the rationale for believing Bernie is more organized than Obama on the youth vote?

Other than your feels.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
blackaroni said:
What does suing the gun manufacturers even solve? I just don't understand this guns things.
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The idea was they'd not only force gun makers and sellers to take self-policing themselves, in terms of who they sold to, far more seriously, since most of them don't give a rat's ass about it, but it also led to the guns being made safer. One lawsuit actually managed to get better trigger guards and safeties put on handguns.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
To be honest I think the average person's views on abortion are some level of incoherent. Cruz's position may be more consistent than that of the average Republican, but it's also extremely unpopular. This is why I'm not going to Diablos at the prospect of Cruz getting the nomination.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
blackaroni said:
What does suing the gun manufacturers even solve? I just don't understand this guns things.
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I think we can make the argument more simple. No one is saying gun makers should be sued for every gun attack. But, the idea of essentially blanket immunity for an entire industry is legally problematic. A lot of theses cases never get to trial, because they're immediately dismissed. That's the stuff we should all take issue with, in my opinion.
 
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