It's Oliver Stone, that's to be expected.
If it had benefited Bernie they'd be touting the very same mechanism as an integral part of his path to victory.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
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Tesseract
Banned
opinions change, i also wasn't a fan of the disruptive tactics at first
i expect this rift to deepen unless we unify soon. scary times.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
One thing changed between both of those cases, and it has nothing to do with opinions. (after all it was only 3 months ago)
Perhaps you have a far better outlook on your fellow man, but racism is not anywhere near gone yet.
Tesseract
Banned
i wouldn't presume to know what's changed, there's too much information out there.
racism will never be over until president danny devito forces everyone to eat mushrooms.
;p
;p
User 463088
Banned
But he doesn't? He says that pundits or many others will tell you it's over because look at the numbers and the polls and by materialism I suppose he means the riggidness of the electorate system. And what he is appealing to us the will of change and the emotional power of hopeful and positive thinking behind electing Bernie. He specifically focused on Hillary's foreign policy and her approach to interventionism, and compared it to Bernie's massive infrastructure program.
It's a speech that appeals on the emotional level so if you're completely behind Hillary of course it's gonna sound bs because it paints her in a bad light in relatively subjective manners, while doing the opposite for Bernie. It's not that it invalidates the votes, but rather than keep pushing against the votes to fight for a better future.
SomeDude, is that you?
Tesseract
Banned
not the union, don't be silly
there's worse things to be permanently disruptive against than healthcare and education as human rights. i'd like to see it continue into the general, civil malaise is bad for primates.
Reddit is blasting a nonstory about how the Panama papers have revealed the shocking story. Turns out Clinton and her foundation have "Shell companies" in US tax havens!
Replace "shell companies" with holding companies and tax havens with Delaware if you want the boring true story..
Replace "shell companies" with holding companies and tax havens with Delaware if you want the boring true story..
The Sanders camp has sent so many contradictory signals about what is and is not cool for this primary season that we might as well just ignore them altogether. Well... ignore them more than the country already is, I mean.
They're hypocrites, and I don't believe that's overstating the matter. Bernie is as much a establishment politician as the rest of 'em. Which is why "establishment" is basically a bullshit term at this point that essentially means "Us vs. Them."
Establishment pretty much lost all meaning as a term when it was used to criticise Planned Parenthood.
User 463088
Banned
Bernie's team is just doing what a losing team does: whatever it takes to appear viable. We can't expect logical consistency from them at this point.
I only would from a candidate who truly thought he was starting a political revolution and wanted things to be done differently
but of course that was never true of Sanders. That was just the myth people created around him.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Sanders fatigue set in a few weeks ago for me in a big way. His bullshit makes me miss Trump headlines. Ah, here's one about a brawl at a rally in NY. There we go.
Sanders and Clinton are just a couple of years apart?
Yeah, it's so great. Hold on, why am I supposed to be happy about that? Hillary has a 49% "will never vote for her" rating as opposed to Bernie's 37%. It's like we're dead set on making this race as difficult for us as possible.
User 463088
Banned
Because no one, and I mean no one, has attacked Bernie Sanders yet. Give me $5 million and a month, and I guarantee you I can get that number above 40%.
The Today show is running a story about how women are crowdfunding their maternity leave.
That's fucking ridiculous. Come on.
An activist, that hasn't been part of the 2 party system to not compromise his policies that is fighting to get money out of politics is the definition of an establishment politician.
Ok
Oh, so why did he vote for the crime bill again?
Tesseract
Banned
I don't buy this, people are wising up to the game thanks to social media and the presence of two massive populist figures.
I mean, there's still an Obama is a socialist billboard up on my nearest interstate ramp from like 2011.
Go ahead and work Bernie up to the 49% "no fucking way" level, however long that takes. That's merely where Hillary is starting from now.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
He's just not in that establishment over there. He's a part of this establishment over here. Make no mistake, the man is established.
That's not how politics works, and the fact that Trump is generally capped at 35% of the vote in the republican primary, and Sanders is losing the democrat primary despite attacks, is demonstration that what you're saying is wrong.
Seriously, if you don't think Sanders negatives will go up if he is actually attacked for once I don't know what to say, other than it would be good to read up on past USA elections. Negative campaigning works - Obama did it, Bush did it, Clinton did it. IT's part and percale of the landscape, and so far Bernie hasn't suffered that scrutiny.
(In one way Clinton's unfavourables aren't as bad as they look because it's all baked in - at this stage there's basically nothing that can be done to lower them further because she's been the target of rabid right wing attacks for 25 years now. Yes they aren't great, but they won't get any worse - whilst Sanders absolutely will, as will any republican nominee not called Trump)
User 463088
Banned
Right. But in Sander's case, it's actually true. Therein lies the difference.
Well, there's not going to be a need to because, baring something insane happening, he's not going to be the nominee. By most Bernie supporters admission, he's a fairly unknown quantity. You cannot pretend that he has been hit by even half of the shit that Hillary has during this campaign alone.
He had one bad interview in which the press actually took a look at him, and he flipping lost his shit. Bernie's favorable/unfavorables have gone way down in teh last month or so. I could totally drive his numbers down even further. Anyone who is even remotely competent at writing smears could do it. Plus, a lot of the stuff that would drive Bernie's popularity down is actually true! It's even easier.
If you don't think an ad in which Bernie is heard saying that breadlines are a good thing wouldn't hurt him...then I don't know.
Tesseract
Banned
Sanders is losing because he's fighting against establishment systems, subsystems. I won't comment on your first sentence, politics is changing as rapidly as technology. Telling someone they don't know how something works before going on a rag about history is kinda funny.
User 463088
Banned
Bernie's not winning because he's not as popular as Hillary is among Democrats. He didn't make the case that he was the better choice. That's on him and his team. It's not that everything in the world is against him. If he wanted to do this, he should have been building bridges for years. You don't just get to wake up and say "Being President seems chill, let's do it" and expect everyone to fall in love and in line.
Sanders is losing because more people prefer what his opponent, HIllary Clinton, is offering as a candidate. That's the reason she lost in 2008, it's why she's winning now.
Its not a close race. More than 2.5 million people prefer her opponent over him.
It's not a giant plot or conspiracy. Indeed, the arcane rules of the nomination process have vastly helped him more than hurt him with caucus states, second stage conventions etc. The simple fact is Hillary Clinton is the preferred candidate of the people participating in the primary process.
Its not a close race. More than 2.5 million people prefer her opponent over him.
It's not a giant plot or conspiracy. Indeed, the arcane rules of the nomination process have vastly helped him more than hurt him with caucus states, second stage conventions etc. The simple fact is Hillary Clinton is the preferred candidate of the people participating in the primary process.
VendettaRed07
Member
Had Bernie managed to get an even 50-50 split amongst minority voters with Hillary, he probably would have won. He has no one to blame but himself for not being able to adjust his stump speech and make it palatable to groups and communities outside his core demographic.
His main tactical adjustment was to invoke Detroit and blame democrats for crumbling midwestern neighborhoods.
His main tactical adjustment was to invoke Detroit and blame democrats for crumbling midwestern neighborhoods.
Tesseract
Banned
Hillary is riding the coattails of the most powerful people in the party, from Clinton to obama. Protected by the DNC, propped up by corporate media who kowtow to power (trump too)
And yeah you should totally be able to wake up and decide to run for president, that's where we are heading
Anyway, we won't agree on this and that's okay
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It makes sense than Sanders' lazy, entitled approach speaks to millenials.
You couldn't have gotten as far as she has by riding on coat tails. What is this nonsense?
Yeah, it's not like she was First Lady, then a well known Senator in New York, and then Secretary of State or anything.
Most people didn't even know who Bernie Sanders was before 2015.
Ah yes, the coattail of Bill Clinton where she got laughed at for being cheated on, very publicly.
The coattail of Obama, who she put aside her differences to work with.
Women, how could they have possibly gained support on their own merits without their husbands and other men?
You can wake up and decide to run for president, but you can't expect to win without putting in the work.
StopMakingSense
Member
Guys, it's Tesseract.
User 463088
Banned
No, I'm going to take issue with your first statement.
She is an accomplished person in her own right. She is not just riding people's coattails. She's out there working for every damn vote she's earned. She hasn't taken anything for granted, and she surely hasn't written off entire states because they don't feel the Hill.
To explain her accomplishments as the result of someone else's success is a disservice to her own record, as well as to the people who support her for HER, not for someone else.
VendettaRed07
Member
Hillary just riding the coattails of others towards success reminds me of the "Tom Brady is a system QB" arguments tbh.
User 463088
Banned
Tom Brady is a big mess. Trash. Sad.
StopMakingSense
Member
It's also kinda funny to be hemming and hawing about 2 Wyoming delegates when the GOP has WINNER TAKE ALL states.
Tesseract
Banned
hiding behind obama's ideas and pushing to be his surrogate third term is coattail riding, levied against bernie's more progressive, optimistic ideas. obama deserves criticism, i'm glad bernie dishes it out. also happy he's not quick to kiss rings for power, there's not a whisper of puppetry there.
she's putting the work in, never said she hasn't earned her keep.
she's putting the work in, never said she hasn't earned her keep.
BotoxAgent
Member
Bernie should have started campaigning a year or two earlier. We all knew Hillary was going to run and she has name recognition with solid minority support. When Black Lives Matter was hitting fever pitch and police shootings were on the forefront, he could have for starters used that time to go on the air and speak about and get his name and voice out there.
Now he picked a loser like Tad Devine to run his campaign and decide to just focus on white liberal caucus states and just ignore the South altogether and talk endlessly about Wall Street boogeymen while you have a Trump out there running a racist campaign, wat!?
Now he picked a loser like Tad Devine to run his campaign and decide to just focus on white liberal caucus states and just ignore the South altogether and talk endlessly about Wall Street boogeymen while you have a Trump out there running a racist campaign, wat!?
So every time that a horde of very enthusiastic but inexperienced young activists gets outsmarted by a few old very experienced campaign volunteers they act as it was cheating.
They never seem to see it coming. They were hit hard with early voting in AZ, surrogate voting in WY. And it's always after the election that it's the first time they hear about the rule.
Heck they even didn't understood that MO is not a caucus. The states election rules are openly available.
The number of people they can mobilise is certainly impressive but Sanders campaign lacks of enough experienced campaigner on the ground to direct all this people.
They never seem to see it coming. They were hit hard with early voting in AZ, surrogate voting in WY. And it's always after the election that it's the first time they hear about the rule.
Heck they even didn't understood that MO is not a caucus. The states election rules are openly available.
The number of people they can mobilise is certainly impressive but Sanders campaign lacks of enough experienced campaigner on the ground to direct all this people.
Woke up to people being angry about Wyoming of all things?
Please. NYC just hurry up and stick a fork in this and be done with it.
RIGGED I TELL YOU RIGGED, If only grandma and all these LOW INFORMATION voters held their peace and kept their absentee/surrogate ballots at home! RIGGED!
Please. NYC just hurry up and stick a fork in this and be done with it.
RIGGED I TELL YOU RIGGED, If only grandma and all these LOW INFORMATION voters held their peace and kept their absentee/surrogate ballots at home! RIGGED!
Ogrekiller
Member
Be happy because he's not getting in power then.
If a complete outsider can come in and just take the mantle in a few months then the party would be obsolete. Even Trump at least made a concerted effort to win over the RNC beforehand.
User 463088
Banned
It's not possible that, you know, she prefers those policies because they are the right policies? Simply running as hard as you can to the left (or the right) doesn't make one better or less compromised.
Tesseract
Banned
given her track record, that possibility seems low
not to say she doesn't have her own team of ideas
Veritigo_X
Member
Same with people just figuring out that they need to be registered to a party to vote in the NY primary. This rule has been known for quite some time, but now that it seems like Bernie is going to lose the state everyone is in an uproar over it. If the campaign was serious about the state they would've been registering people back in the fall.
I was about to say that I think I was a bit unfair. I'm not expecting every volunteer to know every single rule of every state. I'm certainly no expert myself. But I think my main point stand in that the lack of experienced campaign staff is hurting Sanders campaign.
Hillary side has outsmarted and outmanoeuvred them a few times with far less boots on the ground.
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