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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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S

Slime

Banned
royalan said:
It's getting nuts.

Someone talk my off a ledge, because I'm actually growing concerned.

I know that primaries get heated and mud gets thrown, but I don't remember attacks of this nature being thrown in 08. I was a 22 year old Hillary Stan new to the process then, so maybe I just didn't notice, but the attacks from Hillary's side seemed to be focused on Obama being untested and inexperienced, while Obama honed in on Hillary's Iraq War vote and general judgement.

But this year? Sanders constantly inferring that Hillary is inherently corrupt. His campaign's complacency with his voters claiming that Hillary is guilty of voter fraud (the campaign only speaks out when it happens in states he loses). Jeff Weaver going on TV and saying that Hillary has made a deal with the devil...

Corrupt. Fraud. Deal with the devil. These are some high moral charges. And when you connect to a person's core values to convince them to believe a certain thing, it's hard to convince them otherwise down the road.

I don't know how Bernie walks this back. Even Chris Matthews last night described it as frightening, and I agree.
Click to expand...

Between Hillary's camp spreading the pic of Obama in Somali clothing, making Ayers an issue, making Rev. Wright an issue, and Hillary's non-committal answer to the question of whether or not Obama was a Muslim, I would say 2008 was up there in making one of the candidates seem inherently corrupt, if not a potentially radical "other" everyone needed to wary of OR ELSE.

I don't like the type of drama we're saying this year either, but it's nowhere near the type of apocalyptic, borderline racist FUD spreading around in 2008.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Fuchsdh said:
I don't remember it as much either, but people here have brought up a lot of shit Clinton's side did. On the other hand, I don't think Bernie has any compunction about going worse, because he has nothing to lose and his supporters certainly don't care about any cobra effect. The diehards are only in it for him.
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This stuff was coming from Clinton's side, but it (outside of Bill's shit) wasn't coming from Clinton's campaign. At least not to the direct degree we're seeing here. You can't blame this on overzealous supporters.

Obama and Clinton were swinging body blows at each other, but the gloves were kept on. (again, except for Bill, who kept being dumb just like this cycle.)
 
H

Holmes

Member
BanGy.nz said:
"On her worst day, Hillary Clinton is a hundred times better than any of the Republicans." - Bernie Sanders.

I still think he'll back off the Clinton attacks at the end of the month, after the 26th the delegate math goes from almost impossible to impossible.
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No, he won't. We've been through this before. He'll stay negative and continue spending millions of dollars in every state that votes and will whine all the way to the convention. I'm in the "tired of him" part of my Sanders cycle.

tumblr_n4gunks13F1s0fpt7o3_250.gif
tumblr_n4gunks13F1s0fpt7o2_250.gif
 
K

kirblar

Member
Bernie Sanders: the kid that's getting picked on, who you try to be friends with, and then who you slowly realize isn't really getting picked on at all.
 
T

Tranqueris

Banned
Quite a day Bernie's having.

“Bernie Sanders believes the political revolution is built by calling women leaders ‘unqualified’ and calling abortion a ‘social issue.’ So it’s not surprising at all that he doesn’t get what we do and has resorted to these false, disingenuous attacks,” said Marcy Stech, the group’s communications director. “Perhaps if Sanders stuck to issues, not insults, he’d realize that electing pro-Democratic women is, in fact, revolutionary. The key difference is, we don’t just talk about it — we know how to get it done.”
Click to expand...

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-emilys-list-flores-221913
 
R

royalan

Member
kirblar said:
Bernie Sanders: the kid that's getting picked on, who you try to be friends with, and then who you slowly realize isn't really getting picked on at all.
Click to expand...

More liked the kids who spend lunch under the bleachers and think the rest of the school hates them because they're edgy and nonconformist. And so you hang out with them and quickly learn that people hate them because they're pretentious and annoying-as-shit.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
I kind of wish Bernie supporters realize when it comes to a revolution, doing it slowly is better. You don't just turn the car sharply and except positive results. You'll end up into a ravine.

See Tea Party revolution of 2010 and the current state of the GOP.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Slime said:
Between Hillary's camp spreading the pic of Obama in Somali clothing, making Ayers an issue, making Rev. Wright an issue, and Hillary's non-committal answer to the question of whether or not Obama was a Muslim, I would say 2008 was up there in making one of the candidates seem inherently corrupt, if not a potentially radical "other" everyone needed to wary of OR ELSE.

I don't like the type of drama we're saying this year either, but it's nowhere near the type of apocalyptic, borderline racist FUD spreading around in 2008.
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

kirblar said:
This stuff was coming from Clinton's side, but it (outside of Bill's shit) wasn't coming from Clinton's campaign. At least not to the direct degree we're seeing here. You can't blame this on overzealous supporters.

Obama and Clinton were swinging body blows at each other, but the gloves were kept on. (again, except for Bill, who kept being dumb just like this cycle.)
Click to expand...

No; it was coming from her campaign as much as anything comes from someone's campaign post Citizens United. She directly made the dog whistle about Obama being a Muslim on 60 Minutes. It was folks who directly supported her and donated to her who were making the other remarks, or at least leaking them to the media (I would urge folks to read Game Change). In 2016, this would have been tagged as coming directly from her side.

We're not even in the realm of 2008 (Dem side) or 2000 (GOP side) in terms of anger or vitriol. It's just that we're in a thread of Hillary fans (SandersReddit level), Clinton has had this locked up, there's no actual news, and the circle jerk / outrage chamber needs fuel.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Cybit said:
Pretty much.



No; it was coming from her campaign as much as anything comes from someone's campaign post Citizens United.
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Uh... I'm afraid I have some bad news. Not that the system was clean, but that was kids stuff compared to the SuperPACs we have now.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
When you guys link a twitter post, can you please post the contents? Most twitter posts are filtered out by work servers and I can't see them. :X
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Y2Kev said:
When you guys link a twitter post, can you please post the contents? Most twitter posts are filtered out by work servers and I can't see them. :X
Click to expand...

Here ya go:

"At Sanders rally Tim Robbins berates "mainstream media". Crowd turns to us, and they boo"

Tweeted by: Andrea Bernstein:mad:peabodyawards winning @WNYC Sr Ed., investigative journo, @jskstanford, covering presidential campaigns since 1996, Voice of NY, Brooklynite


In other news, my literal Bernie Bro won't even comment on it. Last time I sent him some bullshit the Sanders campaign did he said 'I don't care' so I guess I give up. This time he said: "Too busy being a lombax". While I understand the important of Ratchet and Clank, we have for years of making fun of Republicans for doing the same thing.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
aspiegamer said:
Uh... I'm afraid I have some bad news. Not that the system was clean, but that was kids stuff compared to the SuperPACs we have now.
Click to expand...

Now that SuperPACs are in the fold - no campaign (as long as they have a SuperPAC) needs to directly say anything terrible - they can just have the SuperPAC do it for them. Not sure if I made that clear or not. Since CU hadn't happened yet - the attacks were a little less easily connected than they would be in modern times.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Cybit said:
No; it was coming from her campaign as much as anything comes from someone's campaign post Citizens United. She directly made the dog whistle about Obama being a Muslim on 60 Minutes. It was folks who directly supported her and donated to her who were making the other remarks, or at least leaking them to the media (I would urge folks to read Game Change). In 2016, this would have been tagged as coming directly from her side.

We're not even in the realm of 2008 (Dem side) or 2000 (GOP side) in terms of anger or vitriol. It's just that we're in a thread of Hillary fans (SandersReddit level), Clinton has had this locked up, there's no actual news, and the circle jerk / outrage chamber needs fuel.
Click to expand...
That's just it- this stuff cannot be seen coming from the top. It just can't. The optics matter.

Obama, Clinton both understood this- they were trying to attack while doing as little general election damage as possible. That limiter is NOT on with Sanders' campaign this cycle, for the same reason it's not on with Trump's.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Y2Kev said:
When you guys link a twitter post, can you please post the contents? Most twitter posts are filtered out by work servers and I can't see them. :X
Click to expand...
D list actors at Sanders rallies turning the crowd into a mob at the media because they think that's why they're losing.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Sanders 2016 said:
Joy Reid ✔ ‎@JoyAnnReid
Robbins says Sanders is winning young people, independents and "the people who do the hard work."
Click to expand...

Clinton 2008 said:
Clinton cited an Associated Press poll "that found how Senator Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."
Click to expand...
.

Also this:

Joy Reid ✔ ‎@JoyAnnReid
Tim Robbins on stage now, denouncing the Dem establishment and the media, saying "we are done compromising our ideas," won't "get in line."
Click to expand...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Tesseract said:
sorry my opinion isn't yours, i'll do better in the future
Click to expand...

If your opinion is "tear it all down" and that's all you provide then your opinion is stupid and you should probably expect to get criticized for it.

That's what not being a joke poster is like, welcome to the world the rest of us inhabit.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Joy Reid ✔ ‎@JoyAnnReid
Tim Robbins on stage now, denouncing the Dem establishment and the media, saying "we are done compromising our ideas," won't "get in line."
Click to expand...

Sounds word for word like a tea party event
 
Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
pigeon said:
If your opinion is "tear it all down" and that's all you provide then your opinion is stupid and you should probably expect to get criticized for it.

That's what not being a joke poster is like, welcome to the world the rest of us inhabit.
Click to expand...

it's a passing comment of support, echoing the feelings of everyday working class people.

If you can't handle that, it's time to step away from poligaf.
 
R

royalan

Member
Cybit said:
Pretty much.



No; it was coming from her campaign as much as anything comes from someone's campaign post Citizens United. She directly made the dog whistle about Obama being a Muslim on 60 Minutes. It was folks who directly supported her and donated to her who were making the other remarks, or at least leaking them to the media (I would urge folks to read Game Change). In 2016, this would have been tagged as coming directly from her side.

We're not even in the realm of 2008 (Dem side) or 2000 (GOP side) in terms of anger or vitriol. It's just that we're in a thread of Hillary fans (SandersReddit level), Clinton has had this locked up, there's no actual news, and the circle jerk / outrage chamber needs fuel.
Click to expand...

Don't take this as me defending the desperate things Hillary's team did and said in 08. But I don't think that comes close to Weaver saying Hillary has made a deal with the devil.

Maybe it's because I come from a heavily religious background. But saying someone has made a deal with the devil, that is a HEAVY charge. That speaks directly to someone's intentions and core values being inherently sinister in a way I'm not sure even sparking islamophobia does.

My jaw dropped when I read that Weaver said that. Chris Matthews jumping down his throat over making that accusation lightly made total sense to me. Heck, im in the middle of an argument with a minister who was once ambivalent about Hillary Clinton because Sanders campaign has flirted with these kinds of attacks.

Lord, I'm going to need to drink through tomorrow's debate.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Sanders' campaign is in its death throes. They're throwing anything they have at the wall and hoping it all sticks, then walking back when it blows up (like the "unqualified" thing). If the Republicans were running John Kasich or Paul Ryan, this would maybe be an issue, but with the Republicans running Trump or Cruz, we'll be fine. The Bernie people staying home won't compare, statistically, to the people turning out in droves to keep those nuts out of the Oval Office, or the Republicans and/or Retrumplicans who will stay home and let the party burn.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
smurfx said:
somebody morph a picture of trump and sanders. it's crazy how similar their campaigns are becoming.
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Someone needs to remind his campaign that the only reason he's this far in the race is because the media has a vested interest in continuing the "even matchup!" narrative as long as humanly possible. Trump, well, he goes out and earns that media coverage. It's still free media coverage he's not particularly deserving of, but he at least largely reaches out to offer it versus demanding it.

I blame Reddit. For all of this. Not that they're automatically representative of supporters of both of the candidates, but you get this vibe that you could interchange r/s4p with any Trump group and not notice any difference. Just replace nouns in the headlines. It reminds me far too much of certain ... nefarious internet movements of the past several years. Hopefully it doesn't devolve in that direction.
Cybit said:
Now that SuperPACs are in the fold - no campaign (as long as they have a SuperPAC) needs to directly say anything terrible - they can just have the SuperPAC do it for them. Not sure if I made that clear or not. Since CU hadn't happened yet - the attacks were a little less easily connected than they would be in modern times.
Click to expand...
True true.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Sanders' campaign is in its death throes. They're throwing anything they have at the wall and hoping it all sticks, then walking back when it blows up (like the "unqualified" thing). If the Republicans were running John Kasich or Paul Ryan, this would maybe be an issue, but with the Republicans running Trump or Cruz, we'll be fine. The Bernie people staying home won't compare, statistically, to the people turning out in droves to keep those nuts out of the Oval Office, or the Republicans and/or Retrumplicans who will stay home and let the party burn.
Click to expand...

True, it won't matter for this election thankfully. But how will it matter long term?
Sanders campaign is creating a left version of the tea party. That's now a valid argument.
 
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