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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I don't know why I do it to myself, posting on r/politics the day after a debate.

Like I'm a glutton for punishment or something. One of my most downvoted comments of all time is just a blunt remark that Bernie is desperate and his campaign is showing signs of dying.

Oh well. I'll just go make a silly TF2 or Stardew related post later and get my internet points back.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Ekai said:
I don't see how anecdotal bits can be used as proof that a generalization of many can be used to say they don't feel as strongly on social matters. There are many who even just flat out aren't aware of the Pope's social views in some regards. It's not right and I do wish they could be educated on the matter. But the article is right. His PR is very well done.

I know much about the Pope. My question is why should his lacking social views (which I also don't agree with, same as you) be used as proof that Bernie/his supporters don't have as much investment in social matters? It doesn't feel like it has much of any relation to politics at hand here and is reaching at best even if it did. It's only a quote. If the guy was running out there claiming he had endorsement when he did not that would be another matter. A nuanced matter but it would be a matter that would then make the Pope worth discussing here.

3 out of 4 of my big issues all relate to social matters. Of those 3, only one of those do I generally feel comfortable with in the hands of either of them, women's healthcare/rights. The other two I prefer Bernie.

As far as social matters go with Bernie, yes, he has a history of compromising. On quite a variety of things to be perfectly honest. Be it social and economical. The guy has a history of working across the aisle and getting things done. He fights for what he can. Is he perfect? No, of course not. No one is. Do I recognize where you are coming from? Sure. His message has had a focus on the economical. And frankly that's only one part of my support for the guy. One can prefer a candidate for more than one reason. It's generally how voters are. Of course there are one issue voters but generally speaking I like to believe voters of any candidate on the Democratic side here at least base their decision making in some varied ground.

In regards to social matters, he's frankly a bit ahead on some of those and there are two in particular which are very dear to me that make me veer towards him but I have posted on this already.
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Bernie Sanders for better or for worse has run a campaign that essentially re-defines progressive as only people like him. He clearly thinks Clinton speaking at Banks is bad, hence why he demands she release transcripts buuuut he has no issue going to talk at the still very conservative Vatican and using the Pope as PR.

Like I've said before I'm more critical of Sanders because of how he's set himself up. He's set himself up as a litmus test, so you et I'm gonna call him out when he can't stand up to it.

Also I'm not even making a huge statement I just thought it was interesting that he shows a willingness to compromise on much more on social issues than economic.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
FYI, successful meeting with my client. Made fabulous deals-- just the best-- and will make outrageous profits under budget and ahead of schedule. On way back to airport where mook will fly me back.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Y2Kev said:
FYI, successful meeting with my client. Made fabulous deals-- just the best-- and will make outrageous profits under budget and ahead of schedule. On way back to airport where mook will fly me back.
Click to expand...

Amazing. With Kev as president America will get so sick of winning you don't even know.
 
E

Ekai

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Bernie Sanders for better or for worse has run a campaign that essentially re-defines progressive as only people like him. He clearly thinks Clinton speaking at Banks is bad, hence why he demands she release transcripts buuuut he has no issue going to talk at the still very conservative Vatican and using the Pope as PR.

Like I've said before I'm more critical of Sanders because of how he's set himself up. He's set himself up as a litmus test, so you et I'm gonna call him out when he can't stand up to it..
Click to expand...

Well, in a sense, progressive is a term that is subjective. Do I consider him more progressive than Hillary? Yes. Particularly on the issues that are most important to me. I would prefer the option that pushes for far more than the option that tends to only go with the status-quo/incremental change at best. I've had enough of incremental change. That position is used so often to shove some social issues under the rug. That said, Hillary is similar in some regards so outright claiming her to be purely not progressive is a stretch to say the least.

I'd argue Hillary has done quite the same. Especially with how often she has lied about his actual votes/positions on many matters. Neither has been a saint this election cycle. That's not even touching supporters of which I could go on for a while.

pigeon said:
I think it probably is? Aside from the dumb tax thing, I think that Vox isn't biased against Bernie, just for technocratic analysis, which Bernie basically doesn't like or approve of. So naturally they tend to disagree.
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I remember reacting to not just that ridiculous tax plan misrepresentation but pretty much to every single Vox article that gets shared in OT. Their analysis often seems to be selective and the results always trending one way is very telling. Not to mention the misleading titles, etc. etc.
 
T

TheChocoboCadet

Banned
dramatis said:
You have anything in particular in mind, like a specific photo or slogan?
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Nothing particular. It's going to be a Facebook profile picture, so ideally it would need to be pretty zoomed in on Hillary's face so that people could still identify the picture on those tiny Facebook squares. It doesn't need to be complicated at all for that matter. I've just seen some pretty good avatar bet choices on here and thought I'd see if anyone had a good suggestion. It could be crazy Hillary. It could be subtle Hillary. Crown Hillary. Sunglasses Hillary. Any Hillary would suffice.

Or I could stop being lazy and do something myself...
 
B

blackaroni

Member
Hillary is out here playing bones in Spanish Harlem while Bernie is living it up in Vatican City. Who's funding this vacation of his anyways? The public must know!!
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Ekai said:
Neither has been a saint this election cycle. That's not even touching supporters of which I could go on for a while.
Click to expand...

Correct but only one of them is running a campaign as if he were one.

Look imagine if Clinton went to Israel to a Netanyahu government conference to talk about say LGBT rights and used that for PR in the US. People would flip and Israel is way more progressive than the fucking Vatican.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
blackaroni said:
Hillary is out here playing bones in Spanish Harlem while Bernie is living it up in Vatican City. Who's funding this vacation of his anyways? The public must know!!
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Tbh I do wonder if the Vatican trip will come from campaign donations or his own money.

Surely his own money, right? Weaver said on CNN yesterday this trip was personal, and NOT related to campaigning.

The idea of Reddit lefties paying for a Senator to fly to the Vatican, of all places, is kinda delicious.
 
B

blackaroni

Member
hawk2025 said:
Tbh I do wonder if the Vatican trip will come from campaign donations or his own money.

Surely his own money, right? Weaver said on CNN yesterday this trip was personal, and NOT related to campaigning.

The idea of Reddit lefties paying for a Senator to fly to the Vatican, of all places, is kinda delicious.
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I would think it's either his money or it was sponsored by that guy who invited him...most likely paid for by that guy.
 
A

Armaros

Member
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Am I the only one who finds this Vatican trip to be a massive misstep at one of the most pivotal moments in Bernie's presidential bid?

Why is he half way around the world, uninvited, to fill some dead air time, when he has a campaign to run and a kind of important election coming up in 4 days? Using money he got from college kids who still think he can win, even if he can't really.

He's losing demographics in NY left and right and he's off pretending to meet the pope, while Hillary is down in the city shaking hands and playing dominoes.
 
U

User 85168

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Am I the only one who finds this Vatican trip to be a massive misstep at one of the most pivotal moments in Bernie's presidential bid?

Why is he half way around the world, uninvited, to fill some dead air time, when he has a campaign to run and a kind of important election coming up in 4 days? Using money he got from college kids who still think he can win, even if he can't really.

He's losing demographics in NY left and right and he's off pretending to meet the pope, while Hillary is down in the city shaking hands and playing dominoes.
Click to expand...

campaign is a big fat mess
 
R

Retromelon

Member
TheChocoboCadet said:
Nothing particular. It's going to be a Facebook profile picture, so ideally it would need to be pretty zoomed in on Hillary's face so that people could still identify the picture on those tiny Facebook squares. It doesn't need to be complicated at all for that matter. I've just seen some pretty good avatar bet choices on here and thought I'd see if anyone had a good suggestion. It could be crazy Hillary. It could be subtle Hillary. Crown Hillary. Sunglasses Hillary. Any Hillary would suffice.

Or I could stop being lazy and do something myself...
Click to expand...
WgT7Pel.jpg
 
B

blackaroni

Member
E

excelsiorlef

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Am I the only one who finds this Vatican trip to be a massive misstep at one of the most pivotal moments in Bernie's presidential bid?

Why is he half way around the world, uninvited, to fill some dead air time, when he has a campaign to run and a kind of important election coming up in 4 days? Using money he got from college kids who still think he can win, even if he can't really.

He's losing demographics in NY left and right and he's off pretending to meet the pope, while Hillary is down in the city shaking hands and playing dominoes.
Click to expand...


Honestly he probably knows his campaign is DOA and wants to take advantage of the spotlight as much as he can before he goes back to Independent Sentator from Vermont
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Am I the only one who finds this Vatican trip to be a massive misstep at one of the most pivotal moments in Bernie's presidential bid?

Why is he half way around the world, uninvited, to fill some dead air time, when he has a campaign to run and a kind of important election coming up in 4 days? Using money he got from college kids who still think he can win, even if he can't really.

He's losing demographics in NY left and right and he's off pretending to meet the pope, while Hillary is down in the city shaking hands and playing dominoes.
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As opposed to standing outside Fenway Central Park? In the cold? Shaking hands?
 
J

Jenov

Member
Armaros said:
It's campaign money.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-brings-family-trip-vatican/story?id=38416805

His family went as well.
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"The Vermont senator was joined by all four of his children and four grandchildren, as well as his wife Jane. A small group of staff, Secret Service detail, and members of the press were also accompanying him for the trip on a chartered plane."

Dat campaign $$$.

There was someone on the forum that was insisting that Bernie only flies economy, so this trip wouldn't be expensive, lol
 
E

Ekai

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Correct but only one of them is running a campaign as if he were one.

Look imagine if Clinton went to Israel to a Netanyahu government conference to talk about say LGBT rights and used that for PR in the US. People would flip and Israel is way more progressive than the fucking Vatican.
Click to expand...

From the way some describe Hillary I would be inclined to believe both are running a campaign on being saints. I mean, their behavior has been largely the same in that regard.

I don't really see such a scenario happening or how such a what-if would have anything to do with this. Even considering this what-if scenario, Hillary doesn't even need to go to Israel. She's already expressed her support for that country so why Bernie has a problem for this but not Hillary for that makes no sense to me. It's a bit inconsistent.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Ekai said:
From the way some describe Hillary I would be inclined to believe both are running a campaign on being saints. I mean, their behavior has been largely the same in that regard.

I don't really see such a scenario happening or how such a what-if would have anything to do with this. Even considering this what-if scenario, Hillary doesn't even need to go to Israel. She's already expressed her support for that country so why Bernie has a problem for this but not Hillary for that makes no sense to me. It's a bit inconsistent.
Click to expand...

You consistently and insistently point to strawmen to make your actual arguments.
 
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