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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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H

hammysaurusrex

Member
fantomena said:
Im hearing about anti GMO and some stuff about anti vaccines.
Click to expand...

That discussion matters - because the Green party positions are based on magical thinking. The things they believe are blatantly anti-science.

You want me to trust someone else can do "the other issues" better - but if they believe in magic for agriculture, energy, and health care, why wouldn't they for issues equally as important? There's plenty of fairy science up for grabs in economics and foreign policy - we don't need more.
 
A

ampere

Member
fantomena said:
What's horrible about it? Generally curious. And what's horrible about Jill Stein? Im hearing about anti GMO and some stuff about anti vaccines.

In the view of foreign politics, the Democratic party has been aboslutely shit at it with all the drone attacks Obama has done.

Don't get me wrong, I love Obama and a lot he has done, but parts of his foreign politics is pure shit imo.
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The Green Party is the snake oil salesman of political parties. They're hippies without a viable plan who buy into pseudoscience and act like they're better than the Democrats.

You can read about some of their policies here: http://www.ontheissues.org/Green_Party.htm

They say some nice things, but there's not really any viable plans. "We'll break up corporations", OK, why? How? It's like Bernies "break up the banks!!" ad infinitum.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
ciaossu said:
The Green Party is the snake oil salesman of political parties. They're hippies without a viable plan who buy into pseudoscience and act like they're better than the Democrats.

You can read about some of their policies here: http://www.ontheissues.org/Green_Party.htm

They say some nice things, but there's not really any viable plans. "We'll break up corporations", OK, why? How? It's like Bernies "break up the banks!!" ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

this, literally their entire platform is "well we will do what the democrats do... but magically 1000% faster and better"

All they do is take away more liberal voters of the dems. I understand people want the dems to be more liberal on some things, but the one thing this party has done right is make sure there is no major extreme faction that can tank it or take it over from the inside. It's a party of many different views that takes what it gets for the greater goal of a more liberal country.

Robert Conquest’s Three Laws of Politics

2nd Law: Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

yes I saw it tweeted from that good twitter rant a few pages back
 
S

Slayven

Member
GutsOfThor said:
Don't read the Facebook comments. Just saw this gem:



This is why I'm worried about the General. How many people are there out there that believe this bullshit? Trump more progressive than Hillary!? Jesus fucking christ....
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I think they will calm down by novermber
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Oh my god this is so dumb

Though it could be challenging to find Republican candidates who won’t flee from any affiliation with former Sanders supporters, the PAC hopes to recruit Republicans to run in districts hostile to Democrats.

“We want a supermajority in Congress that is fighting for jobs, criminal justice reform and the environment,” Exley said. “Most Americans actually want that, and I think we get it by running Dems in blue areas, Republicans in deep red areas, and by running independents wherever we didn’t defeat incumbents.”

This task, of course, would require Republicans to back progressive values — something they don’t appear eager to do. But Corbin Trent, another former Sanders staffer, said bringing Republicans on board is “the key to it being a successful idea” and there’s enough overlap between Sanders’ platform and tea party conservatives to make the PAC’s goals feasible.

Reality television star Donald Trump’s current status as the Republican front-runner demonstrates that GOP voters are eager for candidates who, like Trump, criticize the corrupting influence of money in politics and the impact of free trade deals on American workers, Trent said.

“This will allow Republicans to say ‘Yeah, I’m a Republican, but I believe climate change is real and I don’t believe all Muslims are terrorists,” he said. “It will allow people to think differently in the Republican Party if they want to pull away from the hate-based ideology.”
Click to expand...

YOU'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS
 
F

fantomena

Member
ciaossu said:
The Green Party is the snake oil salesman of political parties. They're hippies without a viable plan who buy into pseudoscience and act like they're better than the Democrats.

You can read about some of their policies here: http://www.ontheissues.org/Green_Party.htm

They say some nice things, but there's not really any viable plans. "We'll break up corporations", OK, why? How? It's like Bernies "break up the banks!!" ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

Holy shit, that's bad.

Seems like not a single party in America would be close to my politics. GOP is fucked Up, Green Party is fucked up and the Democrats are way too rightist.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
B-Dubs said:
They also push that natural medicine crap and Jill Stein thinks nuclear power plants are the same thing as nuclear bombs. Not only that but their organization is utterly moronic and wouldn't know how it influence the system if Madison himself came down and explained how Congress worked.
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The biggest strike against the Green Party is that, whatever her other problems, Sawant and her Socialist Alternative party has effected more positive change on a local level in the few years it's been around and active than the Green Party in it's entire existence.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Macho Madness said:
Oh my god this is so dumb



YOU'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS
Click to expand...
“This will allow Republicans to say ‘Yeah, I’m a Republican, but I believe climate change is real and I don’t believe all Muslims are terrorists,” he said. “It will allow people to think differently in the Republican Party if they want to pull away from the hate-based ideology.”
Click to expand...
Um guy I'm pretty sure the people who believe climate change is real and don't believe all Muslims are terrorists are fucking Democrats.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
If I were a political cartoonist, I would make a cartoon that had Trump and Sanders and Cruz all with signs that say "______ 2016" promoting their own campaigns, and then in the background, show the Clintons and Obama making "Re-elect Hillary 2020" signs.

Get it? Because she already won. Funniest political cartoon ever.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
JesseEwiak said:
The biggest strike against the Green Party is that, whatever her other problems, Sawant and her Socialist Alternative party has effected more positive change on a local level in the few years it's been around and active than the Green Party in it's entire existence.
Click to expand...

That's because the Green Party doesn't get how the system works. Top down isn't a thing that works in the US, it needs to be bottom up. That's why parties like SA and WFP get places and the Greens don't.

Macho Madness said:
Oh my god this is so dumb



YOU'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS
Click to expand...

Yea, these people are idiots.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
That Superpac will be an amazing failure, assuming it can actually manage to collect enough money to fail on.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
This whole "New Congress" is assuming that all the outrage on the left is still going to be alive in two years during a midterm.

I have high doubts that will be the case.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
I couldn't stifle a chuckle when I read this part:

"The grassroots are better qualified to run electoral campaigns than Democratic party operatives ... They just need to be given the tools, the data, the offices and the structure to succeed."

-Zack Exley, Brand New Congress founding organizer
Click to expand...

Just give them all the things that make a national party effective and boom, revolution obtained. Who knew it was so simple?
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
Click to expand...

Co-signed.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I couldn't stifle a chuckle when I read this part:



Just give them all the things that make a national party effective and boom, revolution obtained. Who knew it was so simple?
Click to expand...

Clinton has out-grassrooted Sanders in many places.

I mean shit she's spent less than him just about everywhere.

She wins because instead of populist rallies she goes directly to the people, meets with them, talks with them, gets them to organize for her.

I mean literally while Sanders was getting ready to fly to the Vatican, Clinton was in Harlem playing dominoes with folks.
 
D

dramatis

Member
The Business of the DNC Convention
Based on sales during the more recent conventions in Denver and North Carolina, Philadelphia expects an estimated 50,000 visitors to fill the city’s 16,000 hotel rooms and spend millions of dollars at local restaurants and stores. The DNC’s convention committee and the city’s host committee plan to spend about $150 million on the four-day event. There are the contracts for construction, transportation, merchandising, and event production. Businesses across the country submitted bids for these lucrative deals, and six out of seven major contracts with the convention host committee have gone to businesses owned by minorities and women. Five of the seven are local businesses.

Ethnic minorities own 47 percent of Philadelphia businesses, according to the U.S. Census’ 2012 Survey of Business Owners, and it's important that visitors see that reality reflected in the convention, says Tiffany Newmuis, the director of diversity and community engagement for the Philadelphia DNC 2016 Host Committee. “We want people to leave here having seen what Philadelphia is really like,” she says. Newmuis was hired specifically for diversity outreach and to make sure even the smallest local businesses were aware of the opportunities to cash in on the convention. For example, the host committee hired a local African American-owned transportation company to provide buses and shuttles. They hired another local African American-owned company to print their business cards.
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Pretty good redistribution going on.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Man, Cruz is DESPERATE for Indiana. Its clear he's staking everything on the line in hopes of staying afloat. He played all his cards and there is nothing left.

Bold strategy cotton etc.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Brawndo Addict said:
I couldn't stifle a chuckle when I read this part:



Just give them all the things that make a national party effective and boom, revolution obtained. Who knew it was so simple?
Click to expand...

That is stupid.

Brawndo Addict said:
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
Click to expand...

I imagine it will improve now that Bernie is out of it.
 
F

fantomena

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I even had trouble writing "Fuck. Hillary." in one of my previous post, but I got very pissed on the user who wrote "Fuck. Him." so I did it anyway. Still regret I wrote it.

CCS said:
I imagine it will improve now that Bernie is out of it.
Click to expand...

It should improve wherever he's in or out. If Bernie exiting the race is what will make Poligaf a better place then this place is very sad place for people who support him.

This place should be a welcoming place no matter who you support. Telling Bernie to fuck off, traitor, asshole etc.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
When was the last time a presidential candidate had this much protest against them? I don't recall there being this much in the elections this century before
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
“This will allow Republicans to say ‘Yeah, I’m a Republican, but I believe climate change is real and I don’t believe all Muslims are terrorists,” he said. “It will allow people to think differently in the Republican Party if they want to pull away from the hate-based ideology.”
Click to expand...

Those people don't exist.

People who weigh these issues as being important enough to break from their party to vote against the rest of their party's platform aren't going to bother even staying in the party. Nobody who views climate change as very important is a Republican.

It seems really stupid to target Democrat incumbents to primary them, versus using those resources to help get Democrats into new seats.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Brawndo Addict said:
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
Click to expand...
This. PoliGAF feels like an echochamber that regularly takes satisfaction in obliterating Sanders and his supporters. I would much rather talk about policy and at least try to understand opposing viewpoints, but triumphantly stomping about seems to be more satisfying.
 
C

CCS

Banned
fantomena said:
Agreed.

I even had trouble writing "Fuck. Hillary." in one of my previous post, but I got very pissed on the user who wrote "Fuck. Him." so I did it anyway. Still regret I wrote it.



It should improve wherever he's in or out. If Bernie exiting the race is what will make Poligaf a better place then this place is very sad place for people who support him.

This place should be a welcoming place no matter who you support. Telling Bernie to fuck off, traitor, asshole etc.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a reflection on PoliGAF. GAF is liberal in general, and with the election approaching the major dividing factor among liberals is who should be the nominee. Once that's decided, there aren't too many sources of division any more. See 2008 where exactly the same happened.
 
F

fantomena

Member
Kristoffer said:
This. PoliGAF feels like an echochamber that regularly takes satisfaction in obliterating Sanders and his supporters. I would much rather talk about policy and at least try to understand opposing viewpoints, but triumphantly stomping about seems to be more satisfying.
Click to expand...

Im a Bernie supporter, but will fully support Hillary when she get's the nom. Im not even American.

However, super honestly, Ive tried to ignore Poligaf as much as possible because the only thing I will feel when I enter this thread is the feeling of getting hurt or getting a bad stomach because of all the really bad language used at Bernie and his supporters.
 
C

CCS

Banned
fantomena said:
Im a Bernie supporter, but will fully support Hillary when she get's the nom. Im not even American.

However, super honestly, Ive tried to ignore Poligaf as much as possible because the only thing I will feel when I enter this thread is the feeling of getting hurt or getting a bad stomach because of all the really bad language used at Bernie and his supporters.
Click to expand...

Given the comments made by some (not all) Bernie supporters made about Hillary supporters on GAF, and the PM's some people have received, it's not exactly a surprise.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
There's definitely been a couple of situations where it has gone too far.

See: The pages where people started going down the Pope rabbit hole.


In general, I fail to see how reacting passionately to:

- people wanting to appeal to the tea party before appealing to the center

- people making a case for Trump from the left.

is an indictment on those reacting rather than the idea itself.

Definitely a few less "fuck" and "fuck you"s here and there would absolutely be appreciated, but the opportunity to discuss policy is wide open. In fact, the last page just did once someone brought up what exactly set the Green Party and Jill Stein apart.


Although I'll add that the only person that engaged when I tried to get the ball rolling again on talking about restructuring primaries and what Sanders can impact on the DNC agenda was Kristoffer, and that felt like kind of a bummer since I spent a lot of time on that :(
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Man blows my mind: Minorities get assaulted at Trump rallies and many people go yeah well why were they there other than to cause trouble.

A spat of violence at an anti-Trump rally and now it's what are they doing, Trump has a right to speak and run for President. Destruction if property is horrific, etc...


So assault of a person is meh whatever, a few windows smashes is a threat to democracy.

Minorities can't fuck win, protest silently and get assaulted and it's your fault, protest violently and it's your fault.


And that's not to say I think violent protests are the answer. Though I do think the likelihood is there was some violent people amongst a large group for very angry people, so I hesitate to call the whole protest a violent protest,
 
A

ampere

Member
EskimoJoe said:
If I were a political cartoonist, I would make a cartoon that had Trump and Sanders and Cruz all with signs that say "______ 2016" promoting their own campaigns, and then in the background, show the Clintons and Obama making "Re-elect Hillary 2020" signs.

Get it? Because she already won. Funniest political cartoon ever.
Click to expand...

That idea's not bad, so go L2draw. You could even do xkcd style and go stick figures, though those are some fine ass stick figures.

Brawndo Addict said:
I do agree however, that Poligaf's discourse and language has gotten too vitriolic and simplistic for my tastes. I liked to come here because the community represented a break from what you might find in other online networks/communities. If I wanted to see a bunch of people telling each other to fuck off I'd go to Facebook.
Click to expand...

Yea I could probably tone down the language when I'm frustrated.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
fantomena said:
Im a Bernie supporter, but will fully support Hillary when she get's the nom. Im not even American.

However, super honestly, Ive tried to ignore Poligaf as much as possible because the only thing I will feel when I enter this thread is the feeling of getting hurt or getting a bad stomach because of all the really bad language used at Bernie and his supporters.
Click to expand...
I once made a thread where I said "Fuck you, Bernie Sanders!" That was in response to his lawsuit against the DNC so I do not take that back. However in here, once the race locked up, it was not reasonable or relevant to be anti-Sanders anymore. What surprises me is how many people are not satisfied with a significant win and want to gloat and get their wall of win.gif.

balladofwindfishes said:
Those people don't exist.

People who weigh these issues as being important enough to break from their party to vote against the rest of their party's platform aren't going to bother even staying in the party. Nobody who views climate change as very important is a Republican.
Click to expand...
You believe this because you are biased and it fits your internal narrative that Republican voters are ignorant science bashers. This is baseless and divorced from reality.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-more-republicans-now-believe-in-climate-change/

Forty-seven percent of conservatives now say the climate is changing, a leap of 19 points since the midterm elections of 2014
Click to expand...
The poll also found broad support for government policies to expand renewable energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Eighty-four percent of all registered voters support more funding for energy sources like wind and solar, including 91 percent of Democrats and 75 percent of Republicans. A similar number, 81 percent of all voters, support giving tax rebates to people who buy energy-efficient cars or solar panels, including 91 percent of Democrats and 70 percent of Republicans.
On regulating carbon dioxide, 75 percent of all voters expressed support for that action, including 88 percent of Democrats and 61 percent of Republicans. A carbon tax on oil and gas companies netted less support among Republicans, at 47 percent, even as 86 percent of Democrats described it as a good idea.
Click to expand...
A whopping 47 of Republican voters think a gas tax is a good idea!
 
C

CCS

Banned
hawk2025 said:
There's definitely been a couple of situations where it has gone too far.

See: The pages where people started going down the Pope rabbit hole.


In general, I fail to see how reacting passionately to:

- people wanting to appeal to the tea party before appealing to the center

- people making a case for Donald "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese" Trump from the left.

is an indictment on those reacting rather than the idea itself.

Definitely a few less "fuck" and "fuck you"s here and there would absolutely be appreciated, but the opportunity to discuss policy is wide open. In fact, the last page just did once someone brought up what exactly set the Green Party and Jill Stein apart.


Although I'll add that the only person that engaged when I tried to get the ball rolling again on talking about restructuring primaries and what Sanders can impact on the DNC agenda was Kristoffer, and that felt like kind of a bummer since I spent a lot of time on that :(
Click to expand...

I guess people are possibly slightly burned out on primary discussion right now. I know that I'm certainly at the stage right now where I'd happily never hear the word primary again :p

Over the summer when I have more free time I'd love to discuss it in a ton of depth though :)
 
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