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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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B

brainchild

Banned
B-Dubs said:
The only thing we know about his views on issues are what he says when he answers questions in interviews and debates, and frankly those answers don't amount to much.
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Not true. He's introduced dozens of pieces of legislation in the last year that specifically address the issues that make up the foundation of his platform.

The proposals of these bills are available in the congressional record if you're interested in evaluating them. They're far more detailed than anything he talks about to the general public.

Abinash117 said:
It is fine to speak about, but I don't care what he says unless he tangible goals to further ideals on foreign policy( on the terms of foreign policy) and the that bit about the military was a critique on liberals on that - in my view, many liberals many view foreign policy as a military interest which is a only a small part of it. I feel many liberals want to improve the world, but they don't know jack shit on how at least an idea to do so.

Climate change is something that is really important that effects many countries, it is a very real issue, but if the speech is something about climate change is bad and we should fix well he isn't saying anything new. I know he has plans to deal with climate change in the US, but on the subject on foreign policy, if he doesn't have a plan and not the "We should all strive to dwindle the affects of climate change " plan then again it doesn't tell me much. It could be he doesn't have one a this moment though. Moreover, still that just reminds me that Bernie Sanders has a narrow goal. Foreign policy is far more than just climate and wanting countries to have a "moral economy" , but of course he could shaping his message to the audience specifically.
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Here's his legislative record, if you are looking for tangible plans on addressing some of the issues that would shape his foreign policy, you needn't look further than there. Specifically, his climate change act would have global repercussions in a global market. But you can check for more details in the link.

And I'm sorry but dealing with climate change is quite possibly the most important foreign policy issue for the POTUS. He's not just saying it's bad, he has a detailed plan, and it's why he's being recognized for it on a global level.
 
A

ampere

Member
jfdn1uQ.jpg
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Dude is like 2 years old and he's meeting Obama

I ate sand when I was 2
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
ciaossu said:
Yea, the trip was not a wise decision regarding it's timing, but people got quite obsessed with talking about the whole thing.
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Folks here going full on SandersReddit for that trip was pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I was expecting breitbart links bashing Sanders to start getting posted in the middle of that. Even basic stuff like "why does the presidential candidate with secret service need to go on a private plane?" Oy, don't remind me.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Cybit said:
Folks here going full on SandersReddit for that trip was pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I was expecting breitbart links bashing Sanders to start getting posted in the middle of that. Even basic stuff like "why does the presidential candidate with secret service need to go on a private plane?" Oy, don't remind me.
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It was a ridiculous trip though.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
B-Dubs said:
If we're gonna keep it real he went because he thought he was going to meet the pope and that it might help him win.
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This is such a myopic view of the situation.

ANYONE going to the Vatican would probably hope to see the Pope. He's one of the most influential global leaders of our time. Even without the meeting swaying an election, it would be an honor.

But more importantly, the meeting was about a moral economy and climate change; things that Bernie has held strong convictions about since forever. It was an opportunity to meet with other leaders from around the world and call on a global consensus on some serious issues.

If you can't understand why the meeting was so important to Bernie besides meeting the pope, I honestly can't help you.
 
T

Tubie

Member
brainchild said:
If you were invited to speak at the Vatican, especially for the reasons that Bernie was, you'd have went too. Let's keep it real.
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No wtf, why do you assume that? I'm an atheist, and one of the reasons I liked him before was him being religion neutral, then he went to the center of bigotry (and child rape cover up) central in the world just to chase political points in NY and the upcoming north-eastern primaries.

Going to the vatican whoring for political points was just about the most off putting thing Sanders has done so far in my opinion.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Tubie said:
No wtf, why do you assume that? I'm an atheist, and one of the reasons I liked him before was him being religion neutral, then he went to the center of bigotry (and child rape cover up) central in the world just to chase political points in NY and the upcoming north-easthen primaries.

Going to the vatican whoring for political points was just about the most off putting thing Sanders has done so far in my opinion.
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It was a tongue-in-cheek statement. I apologize if I offended you.

For what it's worth, I'm agnostic and non-religious. However, that wouldn't stop me from meeting the pope if the opportunity presented itself. It would be an honor.

And for the last time, Bernie was INVITED to the Vatican. He didn't invite himself. Only a mound of salt could look at all facts and conclude that Bernie was ONLY there to score political points (even though he probably thought he could score some in addition to accomplishing his main goals).
 
A

Abinash117

Member
brainchild said:
Not true. He's introduced dozens of pieces of legislation in the last year that specifically address the issues that make up the foundation of his platform.

The proposals of these bills are available in the congressional record if you're interested in evaluating them. They're far more detailed than anything he talks about to the general public.



Here's his legislative record, if you are looking for tangible plans on addressing some of the issues that would shape his foreign policy, you needn't look further than there. Specifically, his climate change act would have global repercussions in a global market. But you can check for more details in the link.

And I'm sorry but dealing with climate change is quite possibly the most important foreign policy issue for the POTUS. He's not just saying it's bad, he has a detailed plan, and it's why he's being recognized for it on a global level.
Click to expand...

Please don't be that person that post just links as the argument; links that can be pages long and can be ambiguous in trying to understand what you are arguing.
 
T

Tubie

Member
brainchild said:
It was a tongue-in-cheek statement. I apologize if I offended you.

For what it's worth, I'm agnostic and non-religious. However, that wouldn't stop me from meeting the pope if the opportunity presented itself.

And for the last time, Bernie was INVITED to the Vatican. He didn't invite himself. Only a mound of salt could look at all facts and conclude that Bernie was ONLY there to score political points (even though he probably thought he could score some).
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I never said he was not invited.

Him accepting the invitation rubbed me the wrong way, specially when I thought he was the first ever agnostic-ish candidate.

You don't go to the center of the biggest established religion in the world, specially one so plagued with issues if you care about pushing for a government free of theism.

I see no other reason than him chasing political points in the catholic parts of the north east for him going there 3 days before the NY primary.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Abinash117 said:
Please don't be that person that post just links as the argument; links that can be pages long and can be ambiguous in trying to understand what you are arguing.
Click to expand...

The problem is that I've already went through the trouble of quoting excerpts from the record before, in this very thread. I'm not going to jump through hoops to format the information perfectly every time.

The very first bill on that page is the Climate Protection and Justice Act. There is nothing ambiguous about its sections that talk about dealing with Climate change on an international level; that's literally foreign policy.

If you still have trouble finding it in the online text, let me know and I'll quote the relevant parts...again.

EDIT:

BTW, go back on look at my post that you quoted. It's more than just some link drops.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Tubie said:
I never said he was not invited.

Him accepting the invitation rubbed me the wrong way, specially when I thought he was the first ever agnostic-ish candidate.

You don't go to the center of the biggest established religion in the world, specially one so plagued with issues if you care about pushing for a government free of theism.

I see no other reason than him chasing political points in the catholic parts of the north east for him going there 3 days before the NY primary.
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Then perhaps you missed all of the years that Bernie has been quoting Pope Francis' statements on a moral economy.

The problem is that many of you have not been following Bernie for very long, so your assessments of his intentions are inevitably tenuous at best.

Can't really claim to know the rationale behind a person you don't know much about.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Why the hell are we talking about the bloody Pope again. Who on earth cares. It's the Pope. Not Merkel or Putin or Hu or Abe or anyone else of actual consequence.
 
T

Tubie

Member
brainchild said:
Then perhaps you missed all of the years that Bernie has been quoting Pope Francis' statements on a moral economy.

The problem is that many of you have not been following Bernie for very long, so your assessments of his intentions are inevitably tenuous at best.

Can't really claim to know the rationale behind a person you don't know much about.
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For a candidate so focused on political purity I find it ironic that you pick and choose the good parts about this pope and the religion he represent.

This pope still represents THE catholic religion.

This pope still thinks gays and lesbians will go to hell just for loving someone.

Bernie still flew for about 6-8 hours (3 days before the NY primary) for a chance to meet this bigot piece of shit of a human being.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Tubie said:
For a candidate so focused on political purity I find it ironic that you pick and choose the good parts about this this pope and the religion he represent.

This pope still represents THE catholic religion.

This popes still thinks gays and lesbians will go to hell just for loving someone.

Bernie flew 3 days before the NY primary to meet this bigot piece of shit of a human being.
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Bernie said AT THE VATICAN that disagrees with Pope's views on homosexuality and abortion. He's certainly not just 'picking the good parts'.

Nearly EVERY time he praises the Pope, he subsequently brings up his disagreements with the Pope, or vice versa.

EDIT:

And his invitation was to the Vatican, not the Pope!
 
B

brainchild

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
What notable successes does Bernie have as Senator?
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The most notable is probably the VA bill with McCain, particularly because of its bipartisan nature.

WASHINGTON, June 11 – The Senate today voted 93-3 for a bill to expand hospitals and clinics run by the Department of Veterans Affairs and to hire more doctors and nurses to provide timely, quality care for veterans.

The bipartisan bill by Veterans’ Affairs Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would let veterans facing long delays for doctor appointments at VA facilities go elsewhere. Their measure also would hold VA officials accountable for trying to conceal patient wait times.

“Our job is to make certain that every veteran in the country gets quality health care in a timely manner,” Sanders said. “At a time when 2 million more veterans have come into the VA in the last four years, we must ensure that there are enough doctors, nurses and other health care professionals to meet the needs of veterans in every facility in the country.”

The Sanders-McCain emergency funding bill would:

- Authorize leases for 26 new medical facilities in 17 states and Puerto Rico.

- Designate funds for hiring more VA doctors and nurses to provide quality care in a timely manner.

- Expand existing VA authority to refer veterans for private care. Veterans experiencing long delays at the VA could seek care instead at community health centers, Indian health centers, Department of Defense medical facilities or private doctors. The two-year program also would offer those same options to veterans who live more than 40 miles from a VA hospital or clinic.

- Give VA the authority to fire or demote senior leadership staff for poor performance but provide expedited appeals to the Merit Systems Protection Board in order to prevent abuses of the new management powers for political or other inappropriate reasons.

- Eliminate wait times as part of employee performance measures, which are used in determining bonuses for VA employees.

- Make certain that all recently-separated veterans taking advantage of the Post 9/11 GI Bill get in-state tuition at public colleges and universities. For the first time, those same education benefits would be extended to surviving spouses of veterans who died in the line of duty.

- Establish independent commissions on ways to improve the VA; one to look at how the VA can do a better job delivering health care and another to make recommendations on how VA can improve the management of construction projects.
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http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-passes-sanders-mccain-veterans-bill
 
T

Tubie

Member
brainchild said:
Bernie said AT THE VATICAN that disagrees with Pope's views on homosexuality and abortion. He's certainly not just 'picking the good parts'.

Nearly EVERY time he praises the Pope, he subsequently brings up his disagreements with the Pope, or vice versa.
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You still support him, and I don't. We won't get anywhere, so it's best to just agree to disagree on this.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
brainchild said:
The problem is that I've already went through the trouble of quoting excerpts from the record before, in this very thread. I'm not going to jump through hoops to format the information perfectly every time.

The very first bill on that page is the Climate Protection and Justice Act. There is nothing ambiguous about its sections that talk about dealing with Climate change on an international level; that's literally foreign policy.

If you still have trouble finding it in the online text, let me know and I'll quote the relevant parts...again.

EDIT:

BTW, go back on look at my post that you quoted. It's more than just some link drops.
Click to expand...

I didn't say climate change wasn't important I said it was narrow to focus on that concerning foreign policy because he barely talks about much else about foreign policy and I know about the bill and I already went through it. But what I was saying was very much about link drops. Anyway about that bill most of it was a detailed plan to combat in the US, on bits and pieces was about international measures like pressuring other countries to do more.

Again, my issue is the narrow focus and going to the Vatican to peach to the chore means little to me. Yes, you did show that he wants to do something about climate change, but that piece of legislation that obviously did not become a thing,does not gives me a real idea about his actual detailed plans on foreign policy as a whole( to be frank I don't really care about climate change).
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Abinash117 said:
I didn't say climate change wasn't important I said it was narrow to focus on that concerning foreign policy because he barely talks about much else about foreign policy and I know about the bill and I already went through it. But what I was saying was very much about link drops. Anyway about that bill most of it was a detailed plan to combat in the US, on bits and pieces was about international measures like pressuring other countries to do more.

Again, my issue is the narrow focus and going to the Vatican to peach to the chore means little to me. Yes, you did show that he wants to do something about climate change, but that piece of legislation that obviously did not become a thing,does not gives me a real idea about his actual detailed plans on foreign policy as a whole( to be frank I don't really care about climate change).
Click to expand...


Hmm, yeah, we should probably stop arguing about this.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the bolded.

EDIT:

Sorry for the double post.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Abinash117 said:
I don't really care about talking about it and it is not my priority. Although, I already said that it is important anyway.
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Ah, that makes more sense.

royalan said:
Did Bernie Sanders meet with the Pope during his US visit? I'm assuming he did.
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He was not invited to meet with the Pope during the papal visit to the U.S., no.

Tamanon said:
I don't think the DC primary was going on then.
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Bernie probably wouldn't have been invited anyway :p
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
brainchild said:
If you were invited to speak at the Vatican, especially for the reasons that Bernie was, you'd have went too. Let's keep it real.
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I probably wouldn't if I was running for President as the progressive litmus test candidate. Nor would I use what was likely campaign funds to do it. Nor would I do it amd then immediately attack my opponent for raising money with George Clooney for downticket Democrats
 
B

brainchild

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
I probably wouldn't if I was running for President as the progressive litmus test candidate. Nor would I use what was likely campaign funds to do it. Nor would I do it amd then immediately attack my opponent for raising money with George Clooney for downticket Democrats
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Now tell us how you REALLY feel :p
 
B

brainchild

Banned
How do you guys feel about the Republicans not supporting Tubman being the face of the $20 bill?

Racist? Or maybe they'd just rather have MLK? 😂
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I can't sleep so I look up PoliGAF, and nothing but reruns on.

Brainchild, whether there are reasons or not that it seemed like a good idea at the time, I can't understand why you defend that trip. It was at best horrible judgment, and at worst a political ploy that backfired horribly. There is no good interpretation of it.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
I can't sleep so I look up PoliGAF, and nothing but reruns on.

Brainchild, whether there are reasons or not that it seemed like a good idea at the time, I can't understand why you defend that trip. It was at best horrible judgment, and at worst a political ploy that backfired horribly. There is no good interpretation of it.
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Of course there is. You just disagree with it, which is perfectly fine :)
 
R

royalan

Member
I just don't understand, if the Bernie Sanders' admiration of the Pope is so big, why he didn't take advantage of the Pope being in the US, or even on this continent, to extol his virtues. As it is, it wasn't until this trip, in the lead up to a major primary, that I had any idea that Bernie Sanders thought much about the Pope.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
How was it not poor judgment to disappear for a day in the kindle of his campaign to give a 5 minute speech and then ambush the Pope?

He could have done more for the cause of global climate change to replace his stump speech for a couple of rallies, and come off as an opportunist.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
royalan said:
I just don't understand, if the Bernie Sanders' admiration of the Pope is so big, why he didn't take advantage of the Pope being in the US, or even on this continent, to extol his virtues. As it is, it wasn't until this trip, in the lead up to a major primary, that I had any idea that Bernie Sanders thought much about the Pope.
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Maybe he couldn't manage it? You'd have to ask Bernie.

Bernie has been a fan of the Pope's stances on some social and economic issues well before he ran for president. However, it's not unthinkable that most people might not have even known who Bernie Sanders was, let alone followed him. Aside from his show with Thom Hartmann, he wasn't in the national media conversations for any extended periods of time (aside from his epic 8 1/2 hour long filibuster in 2010) at any time.

At any rate, if you didn't know about Bernie's opinions on the Pope until a couple of weeks ago, then you probably haven't been paying too much attention to him.
 
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