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PoliGAF 2016 |OT6| Delete your accounts

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U

User 463088

Banned
We're debating this so politely. Shouldn't one of us call another a democratic whore? And shouldn't someone tell me that I'm likable enough? And then someone should bark like a dog or something. And then I'll make fun of someone's hands. This doesn't feel like politics. It feels like RuPaul's best friend race. :p
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon said:
I live in San Jose and I honestly don't know what you're talking about. How is this city "the way it is?"

I have to be honest and say, although the protests are impolitic and not particularly useful since Trump will lose, I am not unsympathetic with the thought process.
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You live there and you have no idea what I'm talking about? San Jose is 35% Latino. It's the largest Latin american community in norcal.

EDIT: and that's only one of the reasons I said that. High crime rate, gentrified lower class, etc. I am not at all surprised that the protests became violent.
 
I

itschris

Member
The Atlantic gives some space to a Bernie-to-Trump voter so he can explain his reasoning (and then rebuts him):

In trying to understand the history of the Democratic party, it seems like the only thing that causes the organization to realign itself is losing the presidency. When McGovern lost to Nixon, they moved to the center and pulled back on the democratization of the party. When Carter lost to Reagan, they moved to the right with the Clintons and we've been there ever since.

What happens when the electorate repudiates the politics of the Clintons? What happens when holding steadfast to corporatist neoliberalism causes them to lose the presidency to an oafish racist buffoon with no experience in government, who doesn't even try to hide his lies?

Will they finally come to Jesus?

Will they finally see that they're due for an implosion just as dramatic as the GOP's unless they learn to answer to their base of voters and not just the donors?

I guess I'm hoping they will.

...

At least it could shake things up and make both parties have to change the way they do business. There are supposedly checks and balances built into our government to prevent the executive from torpedoing the country. They've been undermined steadily ever since 9/11, but maybe Trump as president is the best argument that they need to be re-strengthened. Can you imagine the tectonic shift that a Congress united against this asshole would bring? Maybe we need a constitutional crisis. Maybe things have already gone too far. We're all sick of being conned by the people we elect to represent us. At least Trump doesn't try to hide it.
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He really doesn’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton, regarding it as a reward for a Democratic establishment that he loathes. So he has almost convinced himself of a possible future where a Trump win increases truth-telling against bullshit; causes the Democratic Party to shift dramatically in his preferred direction; inspires a tectonic shift in Congress; and triggers a constitutional crisis that improbably leaves the United States better off.

What I want to warn this voter and anyone indulging in the same thought process is that they’re indulging in a dangerous fantasy, one that combines extreme pessimism and extreme optimism in an extremely confounding way. On one hand, the voter would have us believe that electing Hillary and working hard to pressure her from the left to make gains in progressive priorities is pointless or doomed to failure. The system is so corrupt that it’s time to burn it down and start over.

On the other hand, he would have us believe—while we imagine the ashes—that four years or more of Donald Trump will turn out to be better than a Clinton presidency in the gains it ultimately brings progressives, despite the powerful forces arrayed against them—that unlike every other time in history when a bigoted authoritarian assumed power at a time of economic, political, and geopolitical volatility, the poor and marginalized will emerge as unexpected beneficiaries.
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N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
adam387 said:
But, just to be clear...

I don't think anyone was labeling them Bernie supporters because they were acting violently. They were being labeled Bernie supporters because they were, you know, chanting Bernie's name. I feel like that's an important distinction to make.

But, I get your point about using groups as a weapon, but I'm not entirely sure that's what people do, although it may appear that way. When we're talking about groups of voters, it's super easy to fall into that trap. Like, if we say "As a group, gays vote for Hillary" we're not pretending that Bernie has no support among the LGBT community. If we say "Young people vote for Bernie" we're not saying Hillary gets no young votes either. I think it's just a hard and fast rule to talk about demographics when it's convenient. I don't think anyone is trying to weaponize groups against other candidates....except that minorities of all flavors are going to bitch slap Trump back to whatever orange muck he crawled out of.
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I guess I disagree with this sentiment. I get a lot of sense they often times have been which has rubbed me the wrong way. Not by everyone, or even intentially. But the general "white Bernie supporters" is just something I've always been iffy on.
I said as much with the "we will overcome" brouhaha the other day

I agree with the last line though :p
 
P

pigeon

Banned
San Jose is famously the lowest crime rate large metropolis in the entire country.

I have to be honest, I don't think you know what you're talking about even a little bit.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
NYCmetsfan said:
I guess I disagree with this sentiment. I get a lot of sense they often times have been which has rubbed me the wrong way.

I agree with the last line though :p
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I think it's often a poor choice of language more than anything else. I hope that's the case, anyway. I think it's super hard to make an argument (especially online) about demographics without sounding like you're, like, using one group against another.

Language is hard mane.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon said:
Yeah, duh.

So? Why do you think that was naturally inclined to lead to violent protests?
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Because Trump has almost unanimous disdain among latinos. Because his rhetoric is a personal affront to latinos. Because every latino I have ever met from San Jose knows at least one undocumented immigrant there and I know two myself. Because it is self evidently unlikely that the same elements which make crime in San Jose some of the highest in the whole country are going to be isolated from the Trump protests.

EDIT: Woah, wtf? I thought San Jose had a high crime rate. What have my parents been telling me all these years? Never trust people from Daly City.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
Why are you trying to link protests, Latinos and crime rates as if these are all natural correlates...
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I was trying to prove a hypothesis that high latino, high crime cities would be much more likely to protest a Trump rally violently than other cities but that's empirically false so

uh

hm

Mexighazi
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Somehow I ended up on the part of the internet that thinks the Berenstein Bears are proof of multiple universes or something.

This is what happens when there's a lull in the politics and I'm not drinking.

I blame you all.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
adam387 said:
Somehow I ended up on the part of the internet that thinks the Berenstein Bears are proof of multiple universes or something.

This is what happens when there's a lull in the politics and I'm not drinking.

I blame you all.
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We're in the Berenstain universe. It's spelled with an A here.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Plumbob said:
What are you talking about? That makes less sense than Trump winning the nomination.
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We switched over when they changed to a religious book series

berenstain-bears-prayers.jpg
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
This thread took an unfortunate turn in the last page or so

But seriously, I'll vote for which ever candidate commits to taking us back into the berenstein bears universe.

we were there. I remember the spelling SPECIFICALLY
 
C

Crayons

Banned
adam387 said:
Somehow I ended up on the part of the internet that thinks the Berenstein Bears are proof of multiple universes or something.

This is what happens when there's a lull in the politics and I'm not drinking.

I blame you all.
Click to expand...

I've spent a lot of time on the internet reading about stuff like that.

Pretty fun stuff
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
adam387 said:
Somehow I ended up on the part of the internet that thinks the Berenstein Bears are proof of multiple universes or something.

This is what happens when there's a lull in the politics and I'm not drinking.

I blame you all.
Click to expand...

It's just amusing how, especially when we are younger, we overwrite in our minds what is a weird word into something that sounds more normal.
 
T

Trouble

Banned
We need a thread with a poll to see who on this site is from multiverse A (Berenstain, aka natives) and who is from multiverse E (Berenstein, aka travelers).
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
Sorry if this has been covered/asked recently, but what are the Democratic polls for California? Came across a couple of "it's a close race!" headlines in my news feed but I don't think that's the case?
 
P

Paskil

Member
Trouble said:
We need a thread with a poll to see who on this site is from multiverse A (Berenstain, aka natives) and who is from multiverse E (Berenstein, aka travelers).
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No we don't! Whenever people start talking about bear books that I read as a child and refuse to name, I get confused about reality and whether I am still in the same reality that I was as a child reading those books, or whether I am now in a different reality with the exact same books, named differently. I think I took too much LSD as a teenager.

It's like an episode of Fringe except the people are fatter, are not as pretty, and the soundtrack isn't cutting edge.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Paskil said:
It's like an episode of Fringe except the people are fatter, are not as pretty, and the soundtrack isn't cutting edge.
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Does that mean we will be given notice on when our world is ending although it will be a short notice and abridged?
 
M

Maengun1

Member
EatinOlives said:
Sorry if this has been covered/asked recently, but what are the Democratic polls for California? Came across a couple of "it's a close race!" headlines in my news feed but I don't think that's the case?
Click to expand...


538's current polls aggregate has Clinton +6.5, which is about half of what her lead was last week. But she also apparently led among people who have already voted early 58/41.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Beer Monkey said:
Because if this Berenstain bear horseshit I now have a friend who swears he was born into and lived in a reality for many years where Narwhals were imaginary creatures.

Really.
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One time, when I was really drunk, my ex managed to convince me that manatees weren't real. And I called the Sea World reservation line and accused them of lying to people. :/
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Were it not for the fact that he's more than overstayed his welcome and has been mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination for some time, I'd almost feel bad for Sanders right now. He keeps drawing decent crowds in CA and tries to make a fuss but he's been slaughtered out of the media cycle now that Clinton vs Trump one-on-one is creating actual news + Trump has made a fool of himself the past week. If the media had mostly turned the page after Kentucky they're in a completely different chapter now.

When he only ever relies on a stump speech it's hard to make actual news via anything other than lazy retorts when his opponents actually get rolling. The response to Clinton's speech was miserable, for example. His not releasing fundraising from May is also a sign of ongoing mediocrity. Outsourcing marketing work for a grassroots campaign style got him off the ground but didn't have the strength to hold up under stress. Hopefully we'll end up with a book or two on the awkwardness of his journey. I'll never be convinced he ever had a chance. He simply didn't. For many reasons.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
aspiegamer said:
Were it not for the fact that he's more than overstayed his welcome and has been mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination for some time, I'd almost feel bad for Sanders right now. He keeps drawing decent crowds in CA and tries to make a fuss but he's been slaughtered out of the media cycle now that Clinton vs Trump one-on-one is creating actual news + Trump has made a fool of himself the past week. If the media had mostly turned the page after Kentucky they're in a completely different chapter now.

When he only ever relies on a stump speech it's hard to make actual news via anything other than lazy retorts when his opponents actually get rolling. The response to Clinton's speech was miserable, for example. His not releasing fundraising from May is also a sign of ongoing mediocrity. Outsourcing marketing work for a grassroots campaign style got him off the ground but didn't have the strength to hold up under stress. Hopefully we'll end up with a book or two on the awkwardness of his journey. I'll never be convinced he ever had a chance. He simply didn't. For many reasons.
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That's one of the reasons Hillary has been less than willing to attack him, I think. She's been there before and knows how painful this whole thing can be. Bernie probably is also very deep in the echo chamber. I bet he legitimately does think this whole thing is rigged against him. He needs to find a good way to land this plane though. I'd give him California if I thought it would be his exit path. I don't think it would.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
adam387 said:
That's one of the reasons Hillary has been less than willing to attack him, I think. She's been there before and knows how painful this whole thing can be. Bernie probably is also very deep in the echo chamber. I bet he legitimately does think this whole thing is rigged against him. He needs to find a good way to land this plane though. I'd give him California if I thought it would be his exit path. I don't think it would.
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Hmmm I think Hillary is holding back because she has this on lock already and doesn't need to "stoop" to making attacks. She appears both more professional and more confident this way.

As for Bernie, I doubt he actually believes the election has been rigged or stolen. His earlier dismissing of Southern Democrats, stating he'd be going to the convention no matter the election result very early on, and the implicit acknowledgement that superdelegates overturning the will of people is the only way to victory suggest his frame of mind is more along the lines of "I know better than the ignorant masses".
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Mario said:
Hmmm I think Hillary is holding back because she has this on lock already and doesn't need to "stoop" to making attacks. She appears both more professional and more confident this way.

As for Bernie, I doubt he actually believes the election has been rigged or stolen. His earlier dismissing of Southern Democrats, stating he'd be going to the convention no matter the election result very early on, and the implicit acknowledgement that superdelegates overturning the will of people is the only way to victory suggest his frame of mind is more along the lines of "I know better than the ignorant masses".
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I agree that he definitely thinks he's the smartest man in the room, and that were all to corrupt to see it. I don't doubt that at all. I think Hillary is more patient, though, because of her experience in 2008. She knows losing this thing sucks. That's why she's never called for him to drop, and has said he should stay in if he wants. I think she'll pressure him after she has the nomination on Tuesday, though. They'll give him a chance to land the campaign on his terms. If he refuses, I'm pretty sure we'll get endorsements from Obama and Biden.
 
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