Given that Hillary's average polling lead is, what, middle single-digits right now(?).. I think Rubio would be outperforming Trump such that the race would be uncomfortably close. His message would be tightly scripted so that he couldn't wander too far off into any sort of danger, and his debate performances would be canned. In some odd ways, the man reminds me of Dubya.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT6| Delete your accounts
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Dubbedinenglish
Banned
SC debate for me. The immolation of Jeb(!) on national TV. Trump called out his damn mom in the debate and just bullied el Jebe all night.
Oh lord, that was glorious. Jeb was an amazing punching bag. The sad thing is he had the biggest balls of anyone on that stage.
the only reason why any of that happened is because of the shitshow of the GOP. He wouldn't have gotten killed like he did by Christie against a Dem and no debate would ever devolve into dick jokes in the GE. He would have made it through stiff, boring but unscathed.
shinra-bansho
Member
Make America Great Again by taking all of those silly rights back from the blacks and the gays.
Except he has no charisma, and way too nervous on stage. Not only that, but his views on abortion were way too far-right for America to seriously consider him.
I guess what I'm saying is that although he might be polling better than Trump now, he would get annihilated on a debate stage with Hillary and his attack ads write themselves. He only does well when he's not in the spotlight.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Yeah after seeing him in the primaries he would wither on the debate stage next to Hillary. It would be a fairly normal and competitive race for most of the season but he wouldn't be able to hack it all told.
Yeah, I'm not at all impressed by his stage presence, and have long been baffled about how so many people said that they found him inspiring/appealing/etc. Part of my anxiety around Rubio was less about the man himself, and more about how the media seemingly tried to make Rubio happen. They seemed to prop him up for the longest time, and it took a full-on meltdown to break the spell.
I've been following #nevertrump closely, both out of schadenfreude and for the glimmer of hope that a halfway decent party may rise from the GOPs ashes. And actually most real nevertrumpers have been quite consistent, although they've always been a small group. Most of them accepted early on that Priebus, Perry, Ryan et al were going to get on the Trump-train. They're gritting their teeth in anticipation of Cruz doing the same thing (though in light of the last 72 hours, there's hope he might not).
Also, the Bushes (all three) and Romney are still #NeverTrump, even if they won't explicitly use that moniker. That's their remaining living presidents and their last standard bearer. That's not nothing.
Disappointment with Rubio is understandable too: he's the one who actually sold 'never trump'-branded merchandise on his site. And they'd somehow convinced themselves that he was anything other than a sniveling opportunist, so disappointment was inevitable.
soundscream
Member
DC is going to be a bloodbath.
Black people + establishment = feel the bern
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
If GOP steal the nomination it's easy sailing to November and a fucking disaster where the GOP will be doomed to repeat on 2020
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If you were asking about how Hilldawg was going to turn the Bernie Or Bust tide, the answer was apparently "Bernie will implode."
I just saw a self-described Sanders supporter on r/politics call Sanders a delusional ideologue.
I just saw a self-described Sanders supporter on r/politics call Sanders a delusional ideologue.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I wish this was breaking through to 20 years olds on my facebook.
But its all "she's a corporate shill bombing muslims"
GutsOfThor
Member
You know what the most terrible part of all this is?
All the stupid illuminati, Rothschild and Bildenberg shit is going to be lighting up my facebook.....
All the stupid illuminati, Rothschild and Bildenberg shit is going to be lighting up my facebook.....
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Do they know that the Illuminati owns facebook?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That Politico article is the beginning of the end for the Bernie or Bust movement. Refusing to support downticket races because they don't specifically endorse you is bitter, ego-driven nonsense.
Even if you love the guy, you'd have to be delusional to believe that so-called progressive "revolution" starts and ends with Bernie Sanders.
Gail Collins is the best.
The MSM and Beltway keep saying that. As always, they're wrong.
Romney got 60% of the white vote, mostly male. He got blown out. Demographics changes mean less whites will be voting and the GOP will keep getting more of them as a %. And it won't matter.
The DNC needs to keep appealing to women, the youth, unions, and the technocratic bases. White as a demographic is dying. It might even be dead already.
As to why, it's economic and racial resentment. Fear. Theyre told the reasons they're not millionaires and are losers is because of "the other".
This is an underestimate. DC is African-Americans and political operatives. It would not be crazy to suggest that Bernie would lose DC the way Hillary lost Vermont.
whyamihere
Banned
The best part of the primary was easily "Let's dispel this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. Barack Obama knows exactly what he's doing". I feel like I watched all of it so many times because it was so terrifyingly unreal.
RustyNails
Member
Rubio is really good at platitudes and high soaring rhetoric. Thats why GOPers like to compare him to Obama. But the difference is that Obama can back that with a supremely likeable persona, and when pressed can go off script, or answer in detail by displaying earnest curiousity.
Democrats get white votes. It how they win places like IA, NH etc.
To be slightly reductionist, working class white people have economic disenfranchisement problems just like all working class people but unlike other working class people they don't believe in racism.
So what they hear is that working class people of color are going to get special help and working class white people are going to be left out in the cold.
He would have melted at some point. And without Trump, a "binders" moment would have counted.
Exactly. But we're talking national %.
The point is white vote isn't a unifying monkier anymore to electoral victory.
The GOP wins the white vote nationally, and it means nothing when looking at other more important demographic and economic groupings. IE the Democrats can easily win with 40% of the white vote or less.
Box of Kittens
Banned
It was always a problem for the GOP that if they cleared the field to stop Trump the alternative would be Cruz, whom they all despise.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
This really is the crux of it. A lot of people working jobs that used to be middle-class, but have wage stagnation feel the american dream is slipping from them with no real help coming from the Democratic side which they feel represents the people below them in economic standing. So while house prices rise, cost-of-living rises, and wages stagnate they feel like nobody represents them as it's about raising those below them to their level while dropping them down a notch.
It's why a lot of middle-class whites don't like what Bernie preaches, especially if you aren't young. They have health-care from their job, though they don't like the price increases and more than likely UH would impact them negatively or not help them at all as taxes would be more than the savings or a net-equal. Free tuition doesn't resonate as they are past college age. Things like the war are more of a non-issue to a lot of people.
Republicans pander to these people, while maybe not offering any more than rhetoric, they at least feel someone is speaking to them specifically instead of people below them on the economic totem pole.
Demographics means the shift is towards Democrats instead of Republicans in the country so in the end we'll more than likely see Hillary in office which I support. Yet as a person getting closer to 40, I at least can understand the viewpoint of no-one directly speaking towards middle-class workers. It's all trickle-up or trickle-down from the parties.
BotoxAgent
Member
The moment he tried to fire back at Christie and interrupting him during those exchanges.....he looked really really bad
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Video / summary?
It does seem like Trump's speech accomplished nothing in the coverage, other than people talking about him prepping another speech for next week.
Laura Olin (Democratic strategist) on Twitter:
This is great
User 463088
Banned
I don't get guys sometimes...
I was literally gasping lmao.
Guys are the worst. Big mistake. Mess. Sad.
I watched Hillary's speech again. Twice. Okay, three times. But that's it, I swear. Lawd JESUS, yassss. The look on her face when she came out there. My god. Gets me in the feels.
Trump is metaphorically masturbating on stage every time he gives a speech, so it really makes sense that he'd reference his dick at least once
My Neck, My Back needs to be here new campaign song
Poodlestrike
Banned
I still say it's the Zodiac Killer stuff.
This is another part I love. I've never seen her on the verge of tears before and after she reaches her arm out, her eyes squint a bit as if to hold back a deluge of tears and then she pulls herself together.
This is a pretty good basic version of it.
The Democrats don't actually need to win the white working class vote to win anymore. People who want the Dems to try to bring them back into the fold (such as many leftists) don't actually believe that the white working class is right in holding this view, but want to try to prevent them from becoming more reactionary. Fascism breeds when the middle class and workers feel like they are being boxed in by capitalists (whether they realize this or not - sometimes they don't recognize it as the capitalist class specifically and so they blame other groups, like Jews) and feel like the left isn't doing anything for them (again, whether this is correct or not, which it isn't), so they turn to the strong man who promises a return to the way things were, national pride, not coddling the weak, etc. A unified labor movement is necessary to prevent people from slipping down that path.
The problem, of course, is that in the US the labor movement is and has always been racially divided, which is why socialists have always tried to bridge that gap, but what we're finding these days is that any attempt to speak up for white workers by socialists is branded as diet racism by liberals while any criticism against the white working class by liberals is handwaved as classism by socialists.
User 463088
Banned
Also, two things:
One: What the fuck happened in New Mexico?! It makes zero sense. Zero sense. I mean, I know Hillary lost the Latino vote in Nevada, Illinois and California (I assume...) but, seriously, what had happened in NM!?
Second: I don't think Trump wants to do this anymore. I don't think he entered this thing to win it. I think he saw it as a marketing tool. He could build up his brand and make money off the deal. He was going to flip the primary for a profit. But, because he's a sad, egotistical, small handed man....he couldn't give it up. He had to win because he couldn't stand the thought of losing. Now, though, he doesn't actually want to go through this shit, but he's totally stuck. Thoughts?
One: What the fuck happened in New Mexico?! It makes zero sense. Zero sense. I mean, I know Hillary lost the Latino vote in Nevada, Illinois and California (I assume...) but, seriously, what had happened in NM!?
Second: I don't think Trump wants to do this anymore. I don't think he entered this thing to win it. I think he saw it as a marketing tool. He could build up his brand and make money off the deal. He was going to flip the primary for a profit. But, because he's a sad, egotistical, small handed man....he couldn't give it up. He had to win because he couldn't stand the thought of losing. Now, though, he doesn't actually want to go through this shit, but he's totally stuck. Thoughts?
nature boy
Member
Damn Establishment!
It really is a fantastic piece. Honestly, there's a great book in that image if Hillary ever decided she wanted to give it a shot. The story of her mom, punctuated with an imagined conversation on that train ride, could be a pretty moving piece of writing.
EDIT: Seriously, born on the fourth of July, the day women get the right to vote, a young girl grows up in the midst of a depression, in a family where no one wants her, eventually creating one of her own and raising a daughter that would later grow up to be first lady, a Senator from NY, the Secretary of State and eventually the first woman to become president of the United States. That shit is gold.
Biiiiiiitch please.
whyamihere
Banned
Eh? It's likely that Hillary won the Latino vote in CA by a pretty healthy margin based on the CDs she's winning.
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