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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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I

Infinite Stars

Member
The best argument for Franken running is that 1v1 he'd expose Trump for the idiot he is. However, with Trump's speedrun of Nixon, I'm not sure we should bank on him being the Republican Candidate in office come 2020.

Instead let Franken do what Biden did to Paul Ryan
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
B-Dubs said:
That sort of negotiation only works in a 1v1 setting when both sides want a deal. That's not politics at all.
Click to expand...

The example I always come back to is the ACA and the notion that if only Obama had started out with single payer we could've gotten a public option. The problem is that there was no pressure on Republicans to pass anything, indeed not passing a bill was the preferable outcome to them for a number of reasons. So Dems had exactly the number of votes available to overcome a filibuster and not one more. This is not to say that Obama didn't make any mistakes at all, but the compromises that had to be made to pass the bill were more the fault of Lieberman than Obama.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Box of Kittens said:
The example I always come back to is the ACA and the notion that if only Obama had started out with single payer we could've gotten a public option. The problem is that there was no pressure on Republicans to pass anything, indeed not passing a bill was the preferable outcome to them for a number of reasons. So Dems had exactly the number of votes available to overcome a filibuster and not one more. This is not to say that Obama didn't make any mistakes at all, but the compromises that had to be made to pass the bill were more the fault of Lieberman than Obama.
Click to expand...
The thing too is starting out with single-payer and negotiating down to a stronger version of ACA is dumb because single-payer is a completely different system. Like it's not this binary equation of "single-payer/current system = ACA with public option."

Perhaps Obama could have started out with an ACA that say, fully subsidized insurance for everyone who still isn't covered, but that's still much different than just starting out with single-payer.

As you point out people also miss that Republicans (and many Democrats! There were a ton of McCain district Democrats) had no incentive at all to negotiate with Obama on healthcare. Trump is a perfect example of how the president can't just bully Congress into doing whatever he wants.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Box of Kittens said:
The example I always come back to is the ACA and the notion that if only Obama had started out with single payer we could've gotten a public option. The problem is that there was no pressure on Republicans to pass anything, indeed not passing a bill was the preferable outcome to them for a number of reasons. So Dems had exactly the number of votes available to overcome a filibuster and not one more. This is not to say that Obama didn't make any mistakes at all, but the compromises that had to be made to pass the bill were more the fault of Lieberman than Obama.
Click to expand...
Yup. When all 60 people can veto it, that gives an absurd amount of power to individual senators to water it down. Nelson, Baucus, Lieberman all used and abused that power. Not nuking the filibuster was on Obama and Reid though. (I bet Pelosi has strong opinions about that in private!)

Single-payer isn't happening because they straight up didn't have the votes then and don't have the votes now. (in both the House and Senate!) Public option, though, they clearly had 51 votes for.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Reading that "Obama isn't running" article from 2004 in hindsight give me weird feelings of nostalgia and longing for 2008/2009 and better times.

This was interesting
At one point during his talk, Obama told the audience that to become successful, you need “honest self-assessment.” He said he never reads positive press notices-he just wants to read negative reviews to learn where he might need to improve.
Click to expand...

What a stark contrast to a president that won't read anything that isn't positive
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
kirblar said:
Yup. When all 60 people can veto it, that gives an absurd amount of power to individual senators to water it down. Nelson, Baucus, Lieberman all used and abused that power. Not nuking the filibuster was on Obama and Reid though. (I bet Pelosi has strong opinions about that in private!)

Single-payer isn't happening because they straight up didn't have the votes then and don't have the votes now. (in both the House and Senate!) Public option, though, they clearly had 51 votes for.
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If I could rerun those first two years I would have liked them to just nuke the filibuster straight away and include a repeal of the Bush tax cuts in the stimulus bill (which would now be larger). C'est la vie.
 
B

Blader

Member
Infinite Stars said:
The best argument for Franken running is that 1v1 he'd expose Trump for the idiot he is. However, with Trump's speedrun of Nixon, I'm not sure we should bank on him being the Republican Candidate in office come 2020.

Instead let Franken do what Biden did to Paul Ryan
Click to expand...

The message for 2020 should not be "Trump is an idiot." We did that last year already. The message should be how Trump lied to you, promised things where he did the complete opposite, didn't make your healthcare better, didn't bring back your jobs, except.

We don't need someone to expose Trump for being an idiot, since half the country already does that on a daily basis. We need someone to expose Trump as a liar who betrayed his voters' trust.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Still no CBO?

I just got followed on Twitter by Tay Zonday. That's weird for a number of reasons. He does follow 500k people so maybe he just does that.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Blader said:
The message for 2020 should not be "Trump is an idiot." We did that last year already. The message should be how Trump lied to you, promised things where he did the complete opposite, didn't make your healthcare better, didn't bring back your jobs, except.

We don't need someone to expose Trump for being an idiot, since half the country already does that on a daily basis. We need someone to expose Trump as a liar who betrayed his voters' trust.
Click to expand...

More than that. We need to expose Trump as WEAK to demoralize his fanbase further.

But most importantly the democratic nominee needs to not make Hillary's mistake of focusing too much campaign resources on being antiTrump and actually make sure that everyone knows the what the democratic nominee is proposing to fix our nation's problems. That's actually one of the things that Bernie got right in the primaries to some degree: he made sure everyone knew that his plans included free college and free healthcare.
 
K

kirblar

Member
TestOfTide said:
More than that. We need to expose Trump as WEAK to demoralize his fanbase further.

But most importantly the democratic nominee needs to not make Hillary's mistake of focusing too much campaign resources on being antiTrump and actually make sure that everyone knows the what the democratic nominee is proposing to fix our nation's problems. That's actually one of the things that Bernie got right in the primaries to some degree: he made sure everyone knew that his plans included free college and free healthcare.
Click to expand...
Thankfully every Den campaign since seems to have heard this loud and clear. Stick to issues in ads and let Trump torch himself and the GOP.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Blader said:
The message for 2020 should not be "Trump is an idiot." We did that last year already. The message should be how Trump lied to you, promised things where he did the complete opposite, didn't make your healthcare better, didn't bring back your jobs, except.

We don't need someone to expose Trump for being an idiot, since half the country already does that on a daily basis. We need someone to expose Trump as a liar who betrayed his voters' trust.
Click to expand...

With the caveat that, as whyamihere has pointed out, we're over three years out from the election and don't know for sure what the landscape will look like, I think this should likely be a big part of our 2020 message (and 2018 for that matter). As you said, people already think lots of bad things about Trump, that's why his favorables were so bad during the election. The key is to attack his relative strengths in regards to economic populism. Brand him as a liar who said he would stand up for the little guy then broke every promise in order to give his rich buddies tax cuts. He's certainly giving us plenty of ammunition.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Fenderputty said:
110%.

Maybe it's cause I live in SoCal, but the Mexican metal scene is pretty huge out here.
Click to expand...
Is Puya still active? We used to crank them in college, bunch of white boys listening to LA latin metal lol

Teggy said:
Still no CBO?

I just got followed on Twitter by Tay Zonday. That's weird for a number of reasons. He does follow 500k people so maybe he just does that.
Click to expand...
lmao. Is Tay verified? Internet celebrity is weird.
 
B

Blader

Member
Box of Kittens said:
With the caveat that, as whyamihere has pointed out, we're over three years out from the election and don't know for sure what the landscape will look like, I think this should likely be a big part of our 2020 message (and 2018 for that matter). As you said, people already think lots of bad things about Trump, that's why his favorables were so bad during the election. The key is to attack his relative strengths in regards to economic populism. Brand him as a liar who said he would stand up for the little guy then broke every promise in order to give his rich buddies tax cuts.
Click to expand...

Right. If unemployment falls even further, blue-collar rural workers are seeing a renewed surge of jobs in their communities, opioid and heroin overdoses drop sharply, wages go up, etc., then we're fucked no matter who we run.
 
S

Slacker

Member
Teggy said:
Still no CBO?

I just got followed on Twitter by Tay Zonday. That's weird for a number of reasons. He does follow 500k people so maybe he just does that.
Click to expand...

Yeah he followed me too lately. I guess he goes for that "follow everyone and hope they follow back" strategy.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
CBO score's not coming until after 4pm EST, at the earliest.

--

Republicans want to leave you more voicemail — without ever ringing your cellphone
For years, consumers have warred with telemarketers for ringing their landline phones at all hours of the day.

Pretty soon, though, they might find their mobile voicemail under the same sort of assault — that is, if the U.S. Republican Party and others have their way.

The GOP’s leading campaign and fundraising arm, the Republican National Committee, has quietly thrown its support behind a proposal at the Federal Communications Commission that would pave the way for marketers to auto-dial consumers’ cellphones and leave them prerecorded voicemail messages — all without ever causing their devices to ring.

Under current federal law, telemarketers and others, like political groups, aren’t allowed to launch robocall campaigns targeting cellphones unless they first obtain a consumer’s written consent.

But businesses stress that it’s a different story when it comes to “ringless voicemail” — because it technically doesn’t qualify as a phone call in the first place. In their eyes, that means they shouldn’t need a customer or voter’s permission if they want to auto-dial mobile voicemail inboxes in bulk pre-made messages about a political candidate, product or cause. And they want the FCC to rule, once and for all, that they’re in the clear.

...

In a comment filed with the FCC on Friday, the RNC said it felt the telecom agency should clear the way for organizations — including, apparently, itself — to auto-dial directly to voicemail inboxes with prerecorded pitches. Failing to permit the practice, the RNC warned, could threaten the First Amendment rights of political groups.

“Political organizations like the RNC use all manner of communications to discuss political and governmental issues and to solicit donations — including direct-to-voicemail messages,” the RNC told the FCC. “The Commission should tread carefully so as not to burden constitutionally protected political speech without a compelling interest.
Click to expand...
Republicans want to clog your voicemail with robocalls.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Slacker said:
Why we love future president Al Franken:

https://twitter.com/JTiloveTX/status/867382179109720064

Snippet from Franken's new book about Amy Klobuchar running a joke by Ted Cruz:

DAmPdU4XkAABo4y.jpg:large
Click to expand...

Hahaha

That's basically perfect.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Blader said:
Right. If unemployment falls even further, blue-collar rural workers are seeing a renewed surge of jobs in their communities, opioid and heroin overdoses drop sharply, wages go up, etc., then we're fucked no matter who we run.
Click to expand...

Unlikely to happen, fortunately/unfortunately. Doesn't look like anybody's doing a damn thing about Opioid abuse (since all Jeff Sessions wants is to jail more potheads instead), and the growth is almost all to the big cities.

An oil price hike would actually help Shale Gas Country which would be a boon for Trump, and OPEC's trying to angle that way, but ironically Shale Gas Country is putting its foot on the pedal and keeping the glut going.
 
E

Ernest

Banned
BoogieWoogie said:
But their base is never going to abandon them. Like what will they do, vote Democrat? It just seems so dumb.
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His "base" alone isn't nearly enough to help him win again.
Remember, he got a lot of Obama voter votes - they're the ones that put him over the top, and they're the ones that will vote him out, especially if he continues on this path.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Pixieking said:
First time I've felt sorry for him...

Cannot fathom why he works for Trump considering what Trump said about the Pope during the campaign.
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I don't feel sorry for him, he chose this life.

Sidebar, but I don't see how anyone could be devout Catholic or Christian and work for Trump, nevermind advocate Republican policies and all the lies that go along with them. It's one thing if you're in favor of policies you haven't thought through and don't really understand (this is my olive branch to evangelical voters, because I'm feeling charitable), but if you work in government, then no, I don't believe you're devout. You couldn't be.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Teggy said:
WHAT

How a dubious Russian document influenced the FBI's handling of the Clinton probe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...75c07c-3a95-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html
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Pre-CBOppo Droppo appetizer? It been posted in OT yet?

This seems real bad.

Email not obtained

After the bureau first received the document, it attempted to use the source to obtain the referenced email but could not do so, these people said. The source that provided the document, they said, had previously supplied other information that the FBI was also unable to corroborate.

While it was conducting the Clinton email investigation, the FBI did not interview anyone mentioned in the Russian document about its claims. At the time, FBI agents were probing numerous hacking cases involving Democrats and other groups, but they never found an email like the one described in the document, these people said.

Then on July 5, Comey decided to announce on his own — without telling Lynch ahead of time — that he was closing the Clinton email case without recommending charges against anyone. Aides to Comey said he decided to act alone after Lynch met privately with Bill Clinton for nearly a half-hour on an airport tarmac in Phoenix about a week earlier — and have since said privately the Russian document was also a factor in that decision.

The appearance of possible conflict arising from the Phoenix meeting led FBI leadership to want to show it had reached the decision independently, without political interference from the Justice Department.

About a month after Comey's announcement, FBI officials asked to meet privately with the attorney general. At the meeting, they told Lynch about a foreign source suggesting she had told Renteria that Clinton did not have to worry about the email probe, because she would keep the FBI in check, according to people familiar with the matter.

”Just so you know, I don't know this person and have never communicated with her,'' Lynch told the FBI officials, according to a person familiar with the discussion. The FBI officials assured her the conversation was not a formal interview and said the document ”didn't have investigative value,'' the person said.
Click to expand...

They were being fed bullshit directly from Russia via a source. Fantastic.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Dan said:
CBO score's not coming until after 4pm EST, at the earliest.

--

Republicans want to leave you more voicemail — without ever ringing your cellphone

Republicans want to clog your voicemail with robocalls.
Click to expand...

If I tell anyone to not call me (businesses/parties/other solicitors) then it should be insanely illegal to harass me by ignoring that request. It's personal but I'd love it if we upped our anti-solicitation laws here in MS nationally. Fine the shit out of these people.
 
V

Vimes

Member
Teggy said:
WHAT

How a dubious Russian document influenced the FBI’s handling of the Clinton probe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...75c07c-3a95-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html
Click to expand...

Renteria said she did know a California woman by the same name who specializes in utility issues. The Loretta Lynch in California is a lawyer who also did legal work for the Clintons decades ago involving the Whitewater investigation. Bloggers and others have previously confused the two women, including during Lynch’s nomination to be attorney general.
Click to expand...

What a clown show.
 
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