PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
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balladofwindfishes
Member
We'd go from "probably no chance of the senate" to "hmm... well maybe there's a chance now, actually"
And we'd go from "probably win in a good year" to "bloodbath" for the house.
And 2020 when the worst hits would devastate Trump's re-election. And any governors running in 2020 when they need to awkwardly remove pre-existing conditions coverage from people
I've already emailed Louise Slaughter. I'll contact Shumer and Gillibrand if it gets to the senate. I'll even probably contact Cuomo at some point. It's just words of encouragement for them, though, it's not like any of them were even humoring voting for this garbage.
I also don't think rationally looking at how the senate functions as an institution and the make up of it is being naive. We also have a senator on record just this morning saying the entire thing is being gutted and re-written in the senate.
GOP isn't stupid, stop underestimating them.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Carpe Libertatem
Member
RustyNails
Member
Is PBY the new Diablos?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
As an employed, affluent person, this is the first time I've actually been worried for my own damn self and not just for the good of everybody.
No way this passes, right?
RustyNails
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm positive tonight is the night Ossof wins
I swear the universe is just trolling us at this point
As an aside, this thread gets hard to read when its half "LOL nothing to worry about at all" and "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE". There is actually a "middle" here I feel.
Quist is pretty much running on healthcare no? This should be a huge boon to him
Old Trump Tweet
As an aside, this thread gets hard to read when its half "LOL nothing to worry about at all" and "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE". There is actually a "middle" here I feel.
The later group are being worse right now just because I feel their arguments are worse.
Quist is pretty much running on healthcare no? This should be a huge boon to him
I live in Arkansas, I have a better chance with Boozman and Cotton in the Senate than the House members here. And why is it naive when it was the CBO score that killed the last one? The GOP fully intended to ram through the first version till it got scored. This bill is passing today, GOP House members do not fear their constituents. It's the political reality of the situation the country signed off on in electing Donald Trump.
TumblingHippo
Member
GOP is stupid and their most hateful supporters are even more stupid, and that's why they can still win again and again.
I don't know which I'd rather have, young people new to politics to finally accept it's dirty and to let their side get dirtier in order to have progressives win more, or to just take this moment of stuff in shambles to just push, push as hard as they can, to fight for a new party or direction for a real left movement.
I think at some point, I'd rather just have progressive ideals win even at a cost, but I feel hesitant about that thought...
I don't know which I'd rather have, young people new to politics to finally accept it's dirty and to let their side get dirtier in order to have progressives win more, or to just take this moment of stuff in shambles to just push, push as hard as they can, to fight for a new party or direction for a real left movement.
I think at some point, I'd rather just have progressive ideals win even at a cost, but I feel hesitant about that thought...
Cesare Borgia
Banned
The senate is not going to pass this bill anyway. They'll simply argue the CBO doesn't apply to what they're doing, and they'll be right. Meanwhile moderate House members will have died on a sword for nothing and face the full brunt of it next November.
The bill will be altered and made more moderate, then return to the House where it'll be shitcanned by the HFC. And that's assuming it even passes the House today which I still doubt.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
We should definitely have at least some level of concern. But, like, we should probably wait for this thing to even pass the House first. Even if that looks likely at this point, it's still just step 1 in a long process.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Why was I not aware that
1. There exists a Democrat country music singer
2. This person is running for congress
I usually love stuff like that just for the novelty of it.
I knew about this race but had no idea who either person was, and decided to google for the first time and was pleasantly surprised!
What makes you say that? It's one of like 5 states that have flags that wouldn't stand out to me as anything weird alongside the flags of most other major countries. I guess single letters are more common to sports, but a c is a lot more low key than most letters.
Worst has to be Maryland. Just a chaotic mass of random shapes and colors as if the design was purposefully trying to make you go crazy by looking at it.
That flag is beautiful. Shut your goddamn mouth.
The sort of problem is that it seems like Trump threatening House Republicans is actually working because he's basically a deity to a non-insignificant number of his base. Currently, the Senate is relaxed because the House is taking the heat but who knows if the Senate will break if he starts calling Republican Senators losers.
Its ridiculous just how badly a competent black president broke the minds of Americans. So much so that they're willing to die slow deaths to make sure that they never have to hear about the Obama in Obamacare ever again.
Its ridiculous just how badly a competent black president broke the minds of Americans. So much so that they're willing to die slow deaths to make sure that they never have to hear about the Obama in Obamacare ever again.
I agree. We should be upset that this even made it this far. We should be doing all that is in our power as citizens to stop it. This has a non-zero chance of becoming law. I just don't think "Trump won so nothing matters and the worst possible scenario will 100% happen" is productive?
Bush broke America hard enough to vote for a Black man in the first place. What does the person America is willing to vote for look like after Trump breaks it?
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Is this true relating to healthcare? His base hates the bill. Many of them will lose their healthcare.
Turn on some rightwing radio/media today, they're still calling this Obamacare 2.0.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
It's a clownish disaster for almost everyone involved but they are in too deep to turn around now.
Smiles and Cries
Member
any links with the details of the Executive Order Trump is about to sign?
President Trump Signs the Executive Order on Promoting Free Speech and Religious Liberty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_X0TUlVs8w
Free Speech and Religious Liberty ? hmmm their has to be a catch
President Trump Signs the Executive Order on Promoting Free Speech and Religious Liberty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_X0TUlVs8w
Free Speech and Religious Liberty ? hmmm their has to be a catch
Reading some Free Republic, they don't like the bill but they're willing to go with it because "it has to go".
That's really the gist of it. Trump and the GOP have run on this stupid R&R mandate for way too long that there's no way to back down.
More_Badass
Member
"Promoting"
balladofwindfishes
Member
This bill doesn't seem to actually please anyone. Ultra conservatives want a clean repeal, and everyone else thinks it's a disaster. The bill has no positive. It doesn't even lower taxes on the rich by any significant amount.
It's what's the most confusing about all this. You can say "they put the party before the country" but in this case they aren't doing that because this bill is going to kill the party in 2018 (and likely 2020) and yet they're still going along with it. Despite the CBO saying it would remove over 20 million people's insurance. Despite every major lobbyist being against it (besides the insurance industry, although I actually don't really even know if they like it). Despite the crazy town halls last month (and the ones next week). Despite Trump's popularity bottoming out before the last vote. Despite the polls showing everyone hates this. They're still going to try and pass it. Any political scientist would look at this and scratch their heads because every single check on a politician to stop them from doing something incredibly stupid is failing right now.
At the absolute minimum, a politician will ensure self preservation. It's basically the base line skill of the job. Do whatever you need to do to keep your job. And yet here we are. The GOP facing death straight in the face, knowing they're facing death straight in the face, not wanting to face death straight in the face, and yet they continue to move into the light.
Some system somewhere is failing horribly.
Basically stops enforcement of the Johnson ammendment which says religious institutions cannot endorse candidates from the pulpit or risk losing their tax exempt status. Then again, the IRS has only ever gone penalized a religious organization once based on it. So in theory this EO might end up not changing much...we'll see how it actually plays out though.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
From what I've seen it's way watered down from what was rumored before. This one is reported to just ease restrictions on religious groups taking political action.
So it wouldn't be the absolute shitshow the discrimination order would have been.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The religious liberty EO seemed more symbolic than practical. Churches already ignore the Johnson amendment, and it's unclear to me how the executive branch had failed to comply with the Hobby Lobby ruling in the first place.
metalslimer
Member
IggyChooChoo
Member
I'm not so confident that the HFC would kill a moderated bill at the final veto point in the process. That's a very different thing than killing it before it ever gets to the first hurdle. I don't think the HFC gets very much out of being purists at that point, and I don't think they're particularly scared being primaried from the right in 2018 for voting for a moderated bill -- after all, they can say they killed version 1.0, that they voted for the hardcore version of the new bill, and that in the end they voted for a final bill that conservative media will unanimously praise as a Republican turnaround triumph story. So the incentives for the HFC are weighted differently at the end of the process than at the beginning.
I agree. I understand how probabilities work, etc.
That said - (understanding the Senate is a different beast) go back and read this thread as of early this week. So much gloating about how this bill would never get through the House, etc.
It was said this one really had the lawyers go through it, and they have a better idea now of how the EO's might get struck down. It seems smart in that it appeals to his base, and it doesn't seem to change much since it was mostly ignored anyway.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Members of the FC have already said they will not vote on a watered down senate bill.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Smiles and Cries
Member
So Trump's EOs are now toothless props to feed his ego?
metalslimer
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
90% of Trump's EO were always just saying stuff like "we will look into it" or "make a plan to do this eventually"
He's just a weird dude. These things don't really need EOs to accomplish.
Veritigo_X
Member
What are some other times you were freaking out?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
He can shit on joe all he wants, he best keep mikas name out of his mouth tho.
metalslimer
Member
I can't stand both of them. Maybe they'll get married and leave the show which would be nice and get some hosts that are actually likable.
Freaking out over everything, everyday, makes others desensitized to your freaking out. Even if you may be right, you end up undermining your position, imo.
Now? Most of his EOs have just been ordering his cabinet secretaries to look into X and conduct a review of Y, which, given who they are and who put them in their jobs, they probably should've been doing anyway.
Now? Most of his EOs have just been ordering his cabinet secretaries to look into X and conduct a review of Y, which, given who they are and who put them in their jobs, they probably should've been doing anyway.
I'm aware of these. There's literally nothing this bill achieves and everyone basically knows this from the AARP to AMA to whoever. But they've got a loud and active base that seriously wants Obamacare gone no matter the cost. Perhaps Free Republic is the wrong place to read opinions but that's the stance a lot of people seem to be holding: bill sucks but I can deal with it since Obamacare is gone.
It really seems like the Republicans are basically going a half court heave with one second on the shot clock. They can't spend the whole time in government achieving exactly nothing of significance. They're desperate for a win here.
If they pass this, they get to tick off an achievement, Trump can brag about it and he can start bullshiting his "multiple phases health care deal making process". The gambit seems to be whether or not Trump can convince enough people that things will get better soon to vote him in for another 4 years. We already know that, despite Trump being extremely unpopular, Trump supporters are still extremely bullish on the future that Trump promises to provide.
The failure in the system is that Trump has a lot of die hard supporters who consistently hand wave his issues (locker room talk) and failures (well he tried at least, can't always get what you want in life) away. Trump has no party loyalty so he doesn't have the decency like past Republican presidents to not shit on his own party. If these guys are getting cold feet because they might get primaried, I wouldn't be unsurprised if they vote for a shitty bill and YOLO their reelection chances rather than die to a Republican challenger with the backing of the president.
RustyNails
Member
When is CBO set to score the new bill with upton amendment?
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
He's also well to the left of the median House Democrat, that cowboy hat wearing socialist!
benicillin
Banned
The big problem I have is I don't see how the country is ever going to move forward if the next administration just deletes all the work the previous administration did. Something drastic needs to happen but I don't know what.
What news?
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