Why? This Russia stuff will get resolved when the special counsel finishes his work. Until then its just all noise and gossip and bullshit.
Honestly - what do you think will happen with Comey?
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
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Why? This Russia stuff will get resolved when the special counsel finishes his work. Until then its just all noise and gossip and bullshit.
Honestly - what do you think will happen with Comey?
This Russia thing morphed into a monster because IT'S A HUGE FUCKING DEAL. "I'm not sure anyone really cares about" this is such a disingenuous statement to make when it's literally the biggest headline in the country, and has been for months. And it's generated entirely by Trump and his own stupidly self-inflicted crises.
Of course. But until they start actually losing elections they should easily win, they're not going to change course. Are Ryan and McConnell suddenly going to make AHCA a much friendlier piece of legislation because Rob Quist lost by only 7 points instead of 27? They don't give a fuck about the margins, they care about the seats. And as long as this environment is still producing newly elected, pro-AHCA and pro-Trump Republicans, there is little if any incentive from these people to hit the brakes.
Party strategists may be the ones shitting themselves over what these special election margins portend for 2018. But many of the Republicans in office now have really only ever had to worry about primary challengers, not Democrats in a general election. For them, the calculus is always going to be on how further to the right we can push this thing. And that'll continue until if and when they get wiped out in 2018, and even then it probably wouldn't matter much, because at the point a newly marginalized GOP would only be listening to their hardcore base constituents anyway.
ITS NOT NOISE AND GOSSIP AND BULLSHIT. Trump and his campaign colluded with Russia, Trump is still in Russia's pocket, and Trump then tried to make sure it didn't get investigated!
How the fuck can you possibly think that!
The idea that everything has to be viewed through a tribal political lens is fucking insane. We're going to do well in '18/'20 because that's what happens when the other side gets an RRR (see: every other non-9/11 time in modern history.) One of the lessons of Gore/Clinton/'94/;10 is that the biggest factors are out of your control and it's all about the minor margins.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If I'm Ted Cruz, I'm absolutely looking at a 15 point D swing and sweating. He'd be an idiot not to. That was about the margin he won last time.
Which is probably why he's just ignoring it. Because he's an idiot.
Do we have data showing that people do care about Russia? Actually asking, curious.
TumblingHippo
Member
Part of me kind of wishes that people would be okay with Dems doing some underhanded things just to win as much.
I feel like that'd lead to a worse future, but it'd sure make the present feel a little better instead of this day to day deluge of the other side making things worse.
I don't know... I think I'm starting to lose all hope that something will come of this.
Both Coates and Rogers refused to acknowledge any conversations they had with Trump about intervening with Comey on the Russia investigation as per previous reporting.
Far from getting any bombshells from these two, their comments only served to make the Republicans even more smug that their statements prove Trump wasn't trying to obstruct anything.
So you have all these media bombshell, and then absolutely nothing actually happens.
RumbleHumble
Banned
Hell, if 2018 goes the way we hope, it will still give Republicans some minor opportunity to whine about how "marginalized" they still are. That's a wrinkle I didn't want to consider.
We have focus group data from the Clinton campaign showing us that running on Russia/Trump is a bad idea. We know this, that's why they're focusing on actual policy for '18 for DCCC ads and such.
But again, that you're focused on campaign messaging in the middle of 2017 makes no sense whatsoever!
You should not need "data" showing that people care about a foreign power colluding w/ the GOP to swing our elections to personally care about it!
First off - I do think it COULD be a big deal. I agree - if illegal stuff happened, then it is a big deal whether people care or not. However- we just don't know, and we won't know until the investigation is over.
Second - I personally don't think that it will result in anything, outside of taking down Carter Page or other Flynn-types. Maybe Kushner, but this goes to my original point - we're just guessing. I honestly don't think Trump is in Russia's pocket, or really did anything nefarious outside of being a bumbling old idiot surrounded by assholes. But this is just an uniformed guess.
Third- In the interim BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING. I'm not worried about campaign messaging - I'm worried about actual legislation like the AHCA. And this shit isn't getting the media airtime and DNC messaging it deserve imo.
Macho Madness
Member
Okay, I do care. Maybe. It's still murky as to what happened to me, and I've tried to pay attention.
I'm still most focused on the issues people care about because this Russia thing is low on everyone's list.
shinra-bansho
Member
I mean, other than Mueller's criminal investigation it is all noise and bullshit. And that's proceeding in radio silence as it should instead of all this obsession over oppodroppototoro. The Senate hearings are not going to lead to anything. The House sure isn't.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
That's the the takeaway from a hearing in which two witnesses repeatedly refuse to just say no that the President asked them to commit a crime?
The idea that you can't make an opinion until the police tell you it's ok to make an opinion is absolutely fucking insane. We have enormous amounts of information out there, and if that's not enough for you to make a personal call, you're either cowardly latching onto "both sides" or completely incapable of analyzing it properly. Are you "not sure" that Wikileaks is a propaganda arm of Russia either? We are not just guessing. When all the smoke and all the fire is coming from one place, it's not very hard to get a very good outline of what's causing the dumpster fire.
Bad shit is always happening. Have you never lived through a GOP presidency+congress before? Because it has happened before, and will happen again, because the American electorate are reactionary as fuck and work like a giant swinging pendulum. Every time people think their party and policies special and can buck the trend, and every time they find out they're wrong. It's about maximizing gains and minimizing losses, and due to trump, the GOP are minimizing their ability to do anything with the power they have.
This is an incompetent GOP. We saw what a competent GOP could do w/ Dubya.
This is kind of how I see it - which is not to say huge, paradigm-shitting revelations won't come out. I'm just noting that we won't get that from this daily drip-drip or Congress, as you note.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Im hoping those 4 are covering for investigations that they don't yet want in the open.
Maybe those people have been convinced they're damned if they do, damned if they don't anyways and might as well go for it and the RNC will back them up at a later date for taking the hit?
Maybe those people have been convinced they're damned if they do, damned if they don't anyways and might as well go for it and the RNC will back them up at a later date for taking the hit?
I mean, Wikileaks is a propaganda arm of Russia. So what?
I generally agree shady stuff happened, but we don't know how significant it was or the scope of such activities. At the other end, you have people like Mensch just running with this stuff, and its madness.
Its not both sides-ism - we just don't know.
excelsiorlef
Member
Their whole take on the Russia stuff is unreal.
I understand the importance of not focusing our messaging entirely on Russia and Mueller's investigation, particularly as: a) the Democrats have no control over that, and b) nothing may even come out of that, or at the very least it may not produce any conclusions for a very long time.
But, are Democrats, the DNC, etc. really concentrating this huge amount of time and effory and money on talking about Russia? Guys like Schiff and Warner do because that's their jobs, and of course you'll always see Schumer, Pelosi, etc. react to whatever new story has broken (which is occuring on a near daily basis now). But most of the messaging I see from non-intelligence committee Dems is about healthcare or immigrants or LGBT rights. Is there a huge volume of DNC-sponsored ads running Russia-centered attack lines on Trump and the GOP that I'm just missing?
But, are Democrats, the DNC, etc. really concentrating this huge amount of time and effory and money on talking about Russia? Guys like Schiff and Warner do because that's their jobs, and of course you'll always see Schumer, Pelosi, etc. react to whatever new story has broken (which is occuring on a near daily basis now). But most of the messaging I see from non-intelligence committee Dems is about healthcare or immigrants or LGBT rights. Is there a huge volume of DNC-sponsored ads running Russia-centered attack lines on Trump and the GOP that I'm just missing?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The thing is that they don't need to do underhanded things. Just play politics. Sling some mud. Get nasty, but with the truth. Republicans have been nothing but pure evil over these past few years. Use that against them. Be real. Stop acting like you are "above it all." The "we go high" mantra? Enough. All it does is make you appear like you are disconnected.
Watching Ossoff last night was frustrating. He was so calm and collected he was the exact caricature of the "academic elite" that republicans are always slamming. It's frustrating. We need more Bidens and Kanders--people who are real, aren't afraid to talk back, yell, get angry.
I agree with all of the above. I have seen some Dems mention this Russia stuff more than I'd like, but overall its been fine (outside of the parties current lack of a cohesive platform/message).
My main frustration is with the media, but its such a losing battle given that its such a juicy story.
neurosisxeno
Member
These Republicans look like absolute clowns...
What? So they're not even going to amend it?
No. They are not. The Dems know their political messaging needs to be elsewhere when the campaigns get in gear.
What's happening is a repeat of perceptions in '16. It's the same reason people thought the "Clinton Campaign" were spending lots of time talking about "Identity Politics" They absolutely weren't doing that. What WAS happening was that these people were seeing Colin Kaepernick all over the news and then attributing that to the Dems.
excelsiorlef
Member
No one, I raise it as a cautionary tale.
excelsiorlef
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
Seriously, some of you sound like off her meds crazytown Carrie sometimes.
I hope Mueller finds something that warrants charges. If they're there, that's what he's there to do.
But based on public information, the extent to which they'd extend would probably be to Flynn acting as a Foreign Agent without registering the interest, EDIT: possibly more than that given the delayed mission I guess. And Trump probably committing obstruction of justice because he's a moron, but nothing will happen with the latter, because afaik there's a grey area about whether he can even be charged with a crime unless he is first impeached.
This:
seems like taking what's known and making fanfiction where Trump is actually capable of anything that requires planning and concentration for more than 3 seconds.
You could actually make the argument that the constant media spotlight on the Russia investigations is actually sapping a lot of goodwill and political capital (not to mention precious floor time) for Trump and the GOP. Were it not for the investigation, would Trump's approvals be higher? Would the AHCA be an easier sell for Republicans, both to their constituents and to themselves? Would be there more room to maneuver on taxes?
There ARE political benefits to keeping these investigations in the media. Dems can walk and chew gum at the same time; no one has shirked their duties in blasting AHCA or holding Trump appointees' feet to the fire in confirmation hearings just because of what Comey and Mueller are doing on any given day.
There ARE political benefits to keeping these investigations in the media. Dems can walk and chew gum at the same time; no one has shirked their duties in blasting AHCA or holding Trump appointees' feet to the fire in confirmation hearings just because of what Comey and Mueller are doing on any given day.
Oh I totally don't disagree. But I think it only is really powerful politically if its closer to the emails issue - e.g., no one really fucking knows whats happening, no megatons, but kind of a steady, lurking drip drip.
This Russia stuff has gone way past that, its overshadowing everything else imo, mostly because its a sexy story that gives the media daily fodder.
neurosisxeno
Member
As I posted in the OT:
BoogieWoogie
Banned
McCain said this morning that he loves Trump's tweets, no lie. He's the most spineless of them all.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Hopefully this is enough to turn off Murkowski, Collins and Cassidy.
I want to believe that McConnell just wants this to get a floor vote so they can call it dead when it can't even break 50. Maybe that's too much right now though.
Cassidy sounded positive on it yesterday.
I'm sure McConnell will let Collins and Murkowski go, just as soon as he's sure that Cassidy, Portman, Capito, and maybe Heller have sold their souls and dropped their previous concerns suddenly.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Fucking Christ.
Well I stand by what I said before, if Medicaid expansion gets repealed or drastically cut, WV, AR, LA and KY need to be seriously contested in 2020. Those senators are literally signing death warrants.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Why would McConnell put up a bill to vote that he didn't know he had the votes for?
More_Badass
Member
Isn't that what happened last time?
I thought Cassidy was talking about proposed CHANGES he could live with? But now it looks like McConnell is fast tracking the House bill? Wtf is going on
I don't know, how many voters in Kentucky who relied on the state exchange for healthcare then immediately elected Brownback, who ran on a platform of abolishing that exchange? Even if the Medicaid cuts/repeal happened instantly (which they won't; they'll be stretched out over time to minimize the political blowback in '18 and '20), I'm just not convinced that the majority of Republican voters in those deep red states that rely heavily on Medicaid will ever be able to get themselves to vote for a Democratic president.
I just feel like the identity politics of "I'm a Republican, and the Democrats are our blood enemies" is just too firmly entrenched into a lot of people's minds down there, and that even the loss of their Medicaid will help enough of them to clear that hurdle. I've seen it in my own parents; the grip that the Republican identity has on these people, even when in conflict with their self-interests, just defies reason.
Bringing shame to the name of giant purple blob restaurant mascots everywhere.
Autodidact
Banned
Yep. The Media's Moderate Darlings will get political cover just like the DeVos situation. They voted against killing millions of people! Look how bipartisan and moderate and compassionate they are! And moderate!
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think the thought might be that there's no last minute hail mary amendment possible for the final vote to sway people over. Especially if they're rushing this thing out the door ASAP.
Macho Madness
Member
What was telling there was how they both waited until the last minute to vote, just in case. It was a show.
I doubt it... given the history of their actions I sincerely doubt it
Macho Madness
Member
My read is that McConnell is going to make every effort to pass it but would be fine moving on if it proves too difficult. But don't think for a second he won't try every trick in the book to pass it first.
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