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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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B

balladofwindfishes

Member
nature boy said:
DB4smhhW0AAQOGx.jpg:large
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So what's their plan to get this to 60 votes?
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
smokeymicpot said:
Let me have some hope. It will be like waiting for Terry Gilliams Don Quixote. Just gonna get pushed back year after year. I know in the back of mind it is not coming for a long time but I will keep thinking it comes out each new season.
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Better safe than sorry at this point. He needs to make sure this investigation nails who he needs it.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
I'm just waiting for the day FBI agents pour into Trump Tower, Mueller and agents land in a helicopter in the South Lawn, justice department get raided etc etc. Then they start pulling computers/files and people out leaving Trump alone in the Oval with a stack of indictments on his people and the list of charges he will be facing after removal from office.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Crocodile said:
I mean your argument might have been better made in the UK Election thread because nobody right now in here (though obviously this was/is an issue when Clinton herself is a subject here) is dismissing the role of gender in politics. Your post seems out of the blue otherwise and isn't telling anyone right now anything they don't already know? Like I sympathize with you. You've been beating this drum for months and its a good drum to beat because you are totally correct. It's just hard for me to care too much that sexism might have hurt May and Le Pen (especially the later, its still weird they are both in this conversation at the same time) because they are actually awful people. I don't care that it would likely be tough for Ben Carson to ever win the Republican nomination due to racism because he is also a terrible person. I would care if a non-terrible (as if with the current GOP LOL) woman/minority was denied a nomination in that party solely due to their race/gender though.
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While there are parts of my post that go into sexism, the main point was not about sexism.

It appears that if I bring gender discussion examples into the conversation, everything else gets blacked out.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Steve Peoples @sppeoples

”If we are not helping people, we should go the fuck home," Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand tells audience of Dem Party at Personal Democracy Forum.
10:38 AM · Jun 9, 2017
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Hamilton Nolan @hamiltonnolan

Kirsten Gillibrand speaking at NYU just now on Trump: "Has he kept his promises? No. Fuck no."
10:35 AM · Jun 9, 2017
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.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
If Ossoff actually wins by 7 the hair of every Congressional Republican will spontaneously combust in unison.

I don't think he will, but lordy!
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Friendly reminder not to put too much stock in any individual poll but instead look at aggregates. And hey, the aggregates are looking good for Ossoff too.

Teggy said:
Sinn Fein is going to hold a press conference. Wonder if they are going to take their seats to screw over May.
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Would be fun but isn't a big part of why they don't take their seats that they refuse to take an oath of loyalty to the Queen?
 
C

Crocodile

Member
dramatis said:
While there are parts of my post that go into sexism, the main point was not about sexism.

It appears that if I bring gender discussion examples into the conversation, everything else gets blacked out.
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Are you gas-lighting me? Your posts have been a warning not to over-interpert the results of the UK elections and what lessons can be applied to the US moving forward due to the role gender might have played. If you take out all the words you've spent on the subject of sexism in this topic this morning, you'd be left with like two sentences. If you want to make a comment on the UK election do so. But this isn't the UK politics/election thread nor were we in the middle of a detailed breakdown on what happened over there in this thread. You're going to have to fill in the gaps if you're trying to say something otherwise it feels like your post was made in the wrong thread - as if it was meant as a specific reply to a conversation that wasn't happening here.
 
S

Slacker

Member
Teggy said:
Steve Peoples @sppeoples

“If we are not helping people, we should go the fuck home," Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand tells audience of Dem Party at Personal Democracy Forum.
10:38 AM · Jun 9, 2017
Hamilton Nolan @hamiltonnolan

Kirsten Gillibrand speaking at NYU just now on Trump: "Has he kept his promises? No. Fuck no."
10:35 AM · Jun 9, 2017
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Meh. I don't like it. How many people are won over by this kind of talk that weren't with her before? And how many are put off? Don't get me wrong, Trump brings out the swearing in all of us, but I don't think this kind of thing pays off in the long run.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Slacker said:
Meh. I don't like it. How many people are won over by this kind of talk that weren't with her before? And how many are put off? Don't get me wrong, Trump brings out the swearing in all of us, but I don't think this kind of thing pays off in the long run.
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Agreed. This is stupid. Doesn't make any sense, and all the GOP is going to do is turn it around that democrats are using terrible language, don't care about exposing children to these words, etc., etc. It's a meaningless ploy that can only hurt.

You can easily show fire and emotion without this type of thing.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Slacker said:
Meh. I don't like it. How many people are won over by this kind of talk that weren't with her before? And how many are put off? Don't get me wrong, Trump brings out the swearing in all of us, but I don't think this kind of thing pays off in the long run.
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My mom loves this sort of stuff.

But she's a hardcore liberal anyway. She's even more liberal than I am.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
studyguy said:
Fillibuster isn't going anywhere.
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McConnell and Senate parliamentarian already killed the Fillibuster by the back door. People don't quite appreciate the significance of this yet. But we are already zombie fillibuster.

Box of Kittens said:
Friendly reminder not to put too much stock in any individual poll but instead look at aggregates. And hey, the aggregates are looking good for Ossoff too.
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Yep. Hitting 50 in multiple polls, showing a consistent a possibly widening lead. Debate probably helped him. 7 is ridiculous but the news is aggregate on this race is really exciting.
 
V

Vixdean

Member
Plinko said:
Agreed. This is stupid. Doesn't make any sense, and all the GOP is going to do is turn it around that democrats are using terrible language, don't care about exposing children to these words, etc., etc. It's a meaningless ploy that can only hurt.

You can easily show fire and emotion without this type of thing.
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Can they seriously claim the high ground on that shit anymore? They just elected the most vulgar and offensive politician in history. Not to mention the mother fucker who body slammed a reporter.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Plinko said:
Agreed. This is stupid. Doesn't make any sense, and all the GOP is going to do is turn it around that democrats are using terrible language, don't care about exposing children to these words, etc., etc. It's a meaningless ploy that can only hurt.

You can easily show fire and emotion without this type of thing.
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Is there any point democrats and liberal can just drop the fucking "Republican are going to turn it into X" pearl clutching bullshit? Seriously, I'm really sick of it. Protip: Republicans will turn anything into something bad. Anything. Us sitting around making the argument for them just makes their job easier.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Vixdean said:
Can they seriously claim the high ground on that shit anymore? They just elected the most vulgar and offensive politician in history.
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I agree, but that doesn't mean they won't still claim it. Remember how all the "evangelicals" brushed aside all of his unethical and immoral actions?

I guess it all depends on how it plays with independents. To me, it just feels forced and unnecessary.

RDreamer said:
Is there any point democrats and liberal can just drop the fucking "Republican are going to turn it into X" pearl clutching bullshit? Seriously, I'm really sick of it. Protip: Republicans will turn anything into something bad. Anything. Us sitting around making the argument for them just makes their job easier.
Click to expand...

Calm down.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Plinko said:
Calm down.
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I am calm, lol. It's just a dumb argument though.

The whole thing just reeks of Democrats and liberals trying to play this "game" by the rules, meanwhile the Republicans have tipped over the table, lit the house on fire and are dancing around in their underwear. Any liberal that says "Holy shit look what's happened" is greeted with "Now now, calm down and play by the rules. The chess pieces are right here on the floor, let's make our next move before it all burns down. Calmly."

Blader said:
You can't make an attack ad out of Gillibrand saying fuck. It would never air!
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Swear like sailors and nothing can end up on an attack ad!
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
RDreamer said:
I am calm, lol. It's just a dumb argument though.

The whole thing just reeks of Democrats and liberals trying to play this "game" by the rules, meanwhile the Republicans have tipped over the table, lit the house on fire and are dancing around in their underwear. Any liberal that says "Holy shit look what's happened" is greeted with "Now now, calm down and play by the rules. The chess pieces are right here on the floor, let's make our next move before it all burns down. Calmly."



Swear like sailors and nothing can end up on an attack ad!
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LOL--I agree about it being a dumb argument. You are right--literally anything democrats do is going to be taken and turned around. Republicans are masters of messaging at this point and democrats just need to fight back in the right way. I just don't see how, "Hey, look, we use the F-word, too! We're real people, not elites!" is going to do the job.

Democrats have a hard time relating to average Joe voter. Profanity isn't how you do that. Knowing what they are scared of and trying to reach them on that level (to a reasonable extent--if they're scared of other races, you cut and run) is how get them on your side.
 
B

Blader

Member
Ironically, I do not think that Gillibrand is the kind of Democrat who does have difficulty relating to the average voter.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Plinko said:
LOL--I agree about it being a dumb argument. You are right--literally anything democrats do is going to be taken and turned around. Republicans are masters of messaging at this point and democrats just need to fight back in the right way. I just don't see how, "Hey, look, we use the F-word, too! We're real people, not elites!" is going to do the job.

Democrats have a hard time relating to average Joe voter. Profanity isn't how you do that. Knowing what they are scared of and trying to reach them on that level (to a reasonable extent--if they're scared of other races, you cut and run) is how get them on your side.
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Maybe I'm biased because I swear all the fucking time and it doesn't really mean anything. I don't take Democrats swearing and think they're saying "Hey look we're real people!" I think... they probably dropped the damned game facade and are talking maybe how they actually feel? I mean it's really hard for me not to swear when talking about Republicans taking away healthcare for millions. I bet a lot of them are sick of the charade even moreso.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Blader said:
Ironically, I do not think that Gillibrand is the kind of Democrat who does have difficulty relating to the average voter.
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Agreed. She does not. I hope she ends up as a top nominee in 2020. I believe the GOP will just brand her as "Hillary Clinton 2.0" but that will be a failure.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Plinko said:
LOL--I agree about it being a dumb argument. You are right--literally anything democrats do is going to be taken and turned around. Republicans are masters of messaging at this point and democrats just need to fight back in the right way. I just don't see how, "Hey, look, we use the F-word, too! We're real people, not elites!" is going to do the job.

Democrats have a hard time relating to average Joe voter. Profanity isn't how you do that. Knowing what they are scared of and trying to reach them on that level (to a reasonable extent--if they're scared of other races, you cut and run) is how get them on your side.
Click to expand...
Profanity in specific doesn't help, but you know what does? Authenticity. And I gotta say, cursing feels like a pretty authentic response nowadays.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Recommended via the Slate Political Gabfest, a rather poetic piece not just about Trump but about ourselves.

The Loneliness of Donald Trump
Once upon a time, a child was born into wealth and wanted for nothing, but he was possessed by bottomless, endless, grating, grasping wanting, and wanted more, and got it, and more after that, and always more. He was a pair of ragged orange claws upon the ocean floor, forever scuttling, pinching, reaching for more, a carrion crab, a lobster and a boiling lobster pot in one, a termite, a tyrant over his own little empires. He got a boost at the beginning from the wealth handed him and then moved among grifters and mobsters who cut him slack as long as he was useful, or maybe there’s slack in arenas where people live by personal loyalty until they betray, and not by rules, and certainly not by the law or the book. So for seven decades, he fed his appetites and exercised his license to lie, cheat, steal, and stiff working people of their wages, made messes, left them behind, grabbed more baubles, and left them in ruin.
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I have often run across men (and rarely, but not never, women) who have become so powerful in their lives that there is no one to tell them when they are cruel, wrong, foolish, absurd, repugnant. In the end there is no one else in their world, because when you are not willing to hear how others feel, what others need, when you do not care, you are not willing to acknowledge others’ existence. That’s how it’s lonely at the top. It is as if these petty tyrants live in a world without honest mirrors, without others, without gravity, and they are buffered from the consequences of their failures.

“They were careless people,” F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote of the rich couple at the heart of The Great Gatsby. “They smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.” Some of us are surrounded by destructive people who tell us we’re worthless when we’re endlessly valuable, that we’re stupid when we’re smart, that we’re failing even when we succeed. But the opposite of people who drag you down isn’t people who build you up and butter you up. It’s equals who are generous but keep you accountable, true mirrors who reflect back who you are and what you are doing.

We keep each other honest, we keep each other good with our feedback, our intolerance of meanness and falsehood, our demands that the people we are with listen, respect, respond—if we are allowed to, if we are free and valued ourselves. There is a democracy of social discourse, in which we are reminded that as we are beset with desires and fears and feelings, so are others; there was an old woman in Occupy Wall Street I always go back to who said, “We’re fighting for a society in which everyone is important.” That’s what a democracy of mind and heart, as well as economy and polity, would look like.
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A man who wished to become the most powerful man in the world, and by happenstance and intervention and a series of disasters was granted his wish. Surely he must have imagined that more power meant more flattery, a grander image, a greater hall of mirrors reflecting back his magnificence. But he misunderstood power and prominence.
[...]
This one imagined that the power would repose within him and make him great, a Midas touch that would turn all to gold. But the power of the presidency was what it had always been: a system of cooperative relationships, a power that rested on people’s willingness to carry out the orders the president gave, and a willingness that came from that president’s respect for rule of law, truth, and the people. A man who gives an order that is not followed has his powerlessness hung out like dirty laundry.
Click to expand...
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Plinko said:
LOL--I agree about it being a dumb argument. You are right--literally anything democrats do is going to be taken and turned around. Republicans are masters of messaging at this point and democrats just need to fight back in the right way. I just don't see how, "Hey, look, we use the F-word, too! We're real people, not elites!" is going to do the job.

Democrats have a hard time relating to average Joe voter. Profanity isn't how you do that. Knowing what they are scared of and trying to reach them on that level (to a reasonable extent--if they're scared of other races, you cut and run) is how get them on your side.
Click to expand...

It's not trying to pander through profanity. It's being sick enough of this shit to drop the filter designed to appease some board room concept of polite marketability.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
BoogieWoogie said:
So Trump's approval among Republicans is down to 75%? That's a big hit,
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Just for that district, that already had a lot of republican voters that didn't like trump on election day. It's why this is more of a must win than the historical relative party strength would suggest.
 
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