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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
A good thing about the random "Hey right-wing media, let's all start trashing Mueller together" occurrence is that it probably means they're scared and know things are happening.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Paches said:
Was Gingrich like this in the 90s? I was too young to be following politics then, so I don't really know what he was like, but it feels like he has gotten more and more extreme over the years? I could use some education on it.
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Gingrich was the Boehner of his day - having productive days negotiating with Clinton, then running to the press to whine about what an asshole he is to score political points.

If anything, Gingrich is relatively moderate compared to most modern Repubs, in terms of his policy proposals, but he's basically THE architect of the current partisan divide.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Gingrich was the Boehner of his day - having productive days negotiating with Clinton, then running to the press to whine about what an asshole he is to score political points.

If anything, Gingrich is relatively moderate compared to most modern Repubs, in terms of his policy proposals, but he's basically THE architect of the current partisan divide.
Click to expand...

Yeah Gingrich is actually worse than most Republicans because he actively pushes against his own beliefs to score blows at Democrats. He very intentionally and openly puts party over anything else.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Abinash117 said:
Muller can't be fired directly by the President, right ? Only Rosenstein can. Trump would have to pressure him to get Mueller fired.
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Supposedly he could repeal all the rules around special prosecution and fire mueller directly, but this would be orders of magnitudes worse than just trying to get Rosenstein to fire him.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
Sessions wants it to be public tomorrow.


DCIRAEnXUAAv3jA.jpg

NEW: DOJ spokesperson says that AG Sessions has "requested" that tomorrow's Senate Intel hearing be public

https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/874280058143297540
 
S

SJurgenson

Banned
Abinash117 said:
Muller can't be fired directly by the President, right ? Only Rosenstein can. Trump would have to pressure him to get Mueller fired.
Click to expand...

There are two ways, as I understand it:

1. Order Rosenstein to fire him. If he won't, fire him and all acting DAGs until you find one who will. (Saturday Night Massacre style)

2. Repeal the special councel administrative regulations (via executive order) that say he can only be fired by the AG, and then fire him directly.

Constitutionally, there is no real way to both make him unfirable and an employee of the Executive branch. So, the regulations are written to make it so that any removal of the SC or the regs are public, so that Congress and the public can then appropriately raise a shitstorm.
 
P

Paches

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Gingrich was the Boehner of his day - having productive days negotiating with Clinton, then running to the press to whine about what an asshole he is to score political points.

If anything, Gingrich is relatively moderate compared to most modern Repubs, in terms of his policy proposals, but he's basically THE architect of the current partisan divide.
Click to expand...

Thanks and yeah, that is kind of what I had assumed.

smokeymicpot said:
Sessions wants it to be public tomorrow.


DCIRAEnXUAAv3jA.jpg

NEW: DOJ spokesperson says that AG Sessions has "requested" that tomorrow's Senate Intel hearing be public

https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/874280058143297540
Click to expand...

Now I am interested in the angle Sessions will take here.
 
R

royalan

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
That doesn't seem to be the case. The bill is clearly struggling and they're behind their original schedule (which was already an aggressive schedule with little room for delays).

The original plan was to have it to the CBO late last week. That never happened. Now they're struggling to get a draft to the CBO this week, yet there's no real indication that's going well.

If the CBO doesn't get it by Friday, this isn't getting voted on before their July 4th recess, which pretty much everyone in the senate has said would mean it's dead.

I don't think there's some devious master plan to use the media to lower expectations and then hit people over the head with it. I tend not to buy into such ideas because they seem way too complicated and difficult to pull off. I also don't really even get the point. If they know this is a bad bill for constituents, but are going to pass it no matter what, it's not really going to matter if they riot now or riot later.
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If you're McConnell, and you're wanting to keep the members of your caucus most susceptible to public pressure from backing down from the vote, it is absolutely in your interest to keep that public pressure as low as possible. This is the entire reason the bill is being drafted behind closed doors and they're planning to vote within days of the CBO score in the first place. McConnell knows that the longer moderate Rs in the Senate are exposed to intensified public scrutiny, the harder it'll be for him to keep them in line.

Maybe this isn't some complex plot, but you better believe that the public falling into a false sense of complacency does nothing but help McConnell/Ryan. So in the end, whether it's a plot or not makes no difference.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
The option to change the rules might take some time, but regardless I think Trump might be pressured by other Republicans and his legal tea,m to not fire him. Since they know the fallout will be significantly worse than Comey.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Kevinroc said:
Activists are sounding the alarm again, saying not enough people are calling in to complain about Trumpcare. Might be a case of the GOP trying to lower expectations yet again.
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These political activists exist to stir and maintain momentum/energy, regardless of the validity of their claims. Maybe the bill is close to passing...but democrat activist groups wouldn't know. They don't have "sources" - at least not republican ones. I'm not knocking what they do, it's a means to an end. But I wouldn't freak out about it, personally.

I was stunned to hear that Portman and others are on board with shitcanning Medicaid. The saving grace is that the timeline they seem to be negotiating (5-7 year sunset?) would be DOA with the HFC. Think about how extreme the House bill had to be just to guarantee their cooperation, with respect to Medicaid.

The other thing I'm confused about...Ted Cruz is cool with such a late sunset for Medicaid? What about Mike Lee?
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Fenderputty said:
This slimeball is up to something ...
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That seems pretty simple: Comey wasn't able to actually say anything about Sessions in public. So if this is open to the public, it will be the same thing. No one's able to say anything, so they won't be able to pin him with anything beyond what we already know.

...Wait. Can Sessions take back his recusal of the Russia investigation on his own? 'Cause that might be the play. Just deliberately have it public, with no one being able to say anything in public, claim he was vindicated just like Trump was, and then end his recusal (and fire Mueller for Trump or something).
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
ShironRedshift said:
That seems pretty simple: Comey wasn't able to actually say anything about Sessions in public. So if this is open to the public, it will be the same thing. No one's able to say anything, so they won't be able to pin him with anything beyond what we already know.

...Wait. Can Sessions take back his recusal of the Russia investigation on his own? 'Cause that might be the play. Just deliberately have it public, with no one being able to say anything in public, claim he was vindicated just like Trump was, and then end his recusal (and fire Mueller for Trump or something).
Click to expand...

I don't want to believe.
 
B

Barzul

Member
Fanfiction: What if the rift between him and Trump is way bigger than reported and he goes scorched earth then resigns right after? Would be my preferred sequence of events.

Also Sessions is too smart to intentionally perjure himself for Trump's benefit. Particularly after those meetings with Kilsyak have come to light. What is the statute of limitations for perjury?
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
I'd love it if someone asked Sessions if he really floated the idea of his resignation. Try to drive a wedge anywhere you can. As for why it might be relevant to the proceedings, if Sessions resigns, his replacement likely doesn't have to recuse themselves and can then influence the investigation.
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
AntraxSuicide said:
I'd love it if someone asked Sessions if he really floated the idea of his resignation. Try to drive a wedge anywhere you can. As for why it might be relevant to the proceedings, if Sessions resigns, his replacement likely doesn't have to recuse themselves and can then influence the investigation.
Click to expand...

I don't think this Administration is smart enough to make that play.
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
AntraxSuicide said:
I'd love it if someone asked Sessions if he really floated the idea of his resignation. Try to drive a wedge anywhere you can. As for why it might be relevant to the proceedings, if Sessions resigns, his replacement likely doesn't have to recuse themselves and can then influence the investigation.
Click to expand...

We'll get the best questions from Harris. Wonder what Republicans will even ask him?

"What do YOU think of the EMAILZ??"
 
A

Abinash117

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
This feels like a trap. Like he's going to lie like crazy to try and cover and he wants it public. He's already lied about Russian stuff under oath before, no reason to believe he wouldn't again.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem like a good move. The media and Democrats would know that he lied like crazy, and likely prove it. It would be criminal and the spotlight would be on Sessions. I'm not saying that he would be impeached himself or resign, but the backlash would be heavy and further prove that the administration can't be trusted or Sessions himself.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
RumbleHumble said:
I don't think this Administration is smart enough to make that play.
Click to expand...

I doubt Trump would do it out of some insane plot. It's more like "Jeff can't do what I want him to do so he's fired"

Barzul said:
Fanfiction: What if the rift between him and Trump is way bigger than reported and he goes scorched earth then resigns right after? Would be my preferred sequence of events.

Also Sessions is too smart to intentionally perjure himself for Trump's benefit. Particularly after those meetings with Kilsyak have come to light. What is the statute of limitations for perjury?
Click to expand...

Looks like 5 years ,so long enough for new Congress or new President to charge.
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Barzul said:
Fanfiction: What if the rift between him and Trump is way bigger than reported and he goes scorched earth then resigns right after? Would be my preferred sequence of events.

Also Sessions is too smart to intentionally perjure himself for Trump's benefit. Particularly after those meetings with Kilsyak have come to light. What is the statute of limitations for perjury?
Click to expand...
But he already did commit perjury and nothing happened aside from being forced to recuse himself, so what's a little bit more to him?
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Barzul said:
Fanfiction: What if the rift between him and Trump is way bigger than reported and he goes scorched earth then resigns right after? Would be my preferred sequence of events.

Also Sessions is too smart to intentionally perjure himself for Trump's benefit. Particularly after those meetings with Kilsyak have come to light. What is the statute of limitations for perjury?
Click to expand...

It's fanfic but I'm also not discounting there could be some kind of self-preservation angle here.

Sessions is a piece of shit but usually in ways completely separate from the idea of selling out his country. It is deeply weird he got sucked into the Trump/Russia vortex, apparently.
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
I didn't want to think "Nothing will come of this" when I heard about this meeting but it really feels like that is what it will lead to. Sessions will spend the entire meeting lying his ass off and the Republicans will work with him to slander Comey and make him come off in a bad light. They will probably spend a good amount of time talking about how bad it was that he released his memos and questioning Sessions of the legality of it. The Democrats will call Sessions out, but they don't have the power to do anything about him lying and I imagine Sessions just feels it is better for him to try and lie and retain his position rather than come clean about it.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
This feels like a trap. Like he's going to lie like crazy to try and cover and he wants it public. He's already lied about Russian stuff under oath before, no reason to believe he wouldn't again.
Click to expand...

Jebus people, Sessions testifying in public is a good thing. It re-enforces that this is a major story and continues media coverage of it. Remember how Comey dominated the news cycle last week? Sure, Sessions will spread as much FUD as possible but having him under oath in public is what we want.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
ShironRedshift said:
But he already did commit perjury and nothing happened aside from being forced to recuse himself, so what's a little bit more to him?
Click to expand...

Political pressure dropped because of that. No longer needed to push it further; the Dems got what they wanted. It is a little different this time around. If he lies it would look like he protecting Trump, and he would further tied to the whole thing. Public testifying could be a way to get himself out, I think.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Paches said:
Was Gingrich like this in the 90s? I was too young to be following politics then, so I don't really know what he was like, but it feels like he has gotten more and more extreme over the years? I could use some education on it.
Click to expand...
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Gingrich was the Boehner of his day - having productive days negotiating with Clinton, then running to the press to whine about what an asshole he is to score political points.
Click to expand...
daily-news-front-page-cry-baby-newt-gingrichs-tantrum-he-closed-down-picture-id97291268


Gingrich had been invited aboard Air Force One last week to fly to the funeral of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. With a budget crisis pending, he expected Clinton would take time out during the flight to talk about a possible solution.

But Clinton, who seemed to be genuinely grieving over Rabin's death, stayed up front in a cabin with former Presidents Jimmy Carter and George Bush on both the outward-bound and return trips.

Then, when the plane landed at Andrews Air Force base outside Washington, Gingrich and Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole were asked to deplane by gasp! the rear door.

"This is petty," Gingrich confessed. "I'm going to say up front it's petty, but I think it's human. When you land at Andrews and you've been on the plane for 25 hours and nobody has talked to you and they ask you to get off by the back ramp . . . you just wonder, where is their sense of manners, where is their sense of courtesy?"

To Gingrich, the professor of history, this was one of the snubs of the century, ranking, he said, with the time Charles Evans Hughes stiffed Hiram Johnson of the California Progressive Party back in 1916, a slight that cost Hughes the California vote and the presidency. And it was this disrespect, Gingrich continued, that caused him to send the President two temporary financing and spending bills he knew that Clinton would have to veto thus shutting down the federal government.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course I have the link to the ten cabbies from hell article.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
IIRC, Newt and Bill did not get along personally. Though that was less Bill and more because Newt has a need to be the smartest person in every room in every dimension.

From what I understand, Boehner and Obama actually got along quite well outside of work doing stuff like golfing or watching movies.

"Coming in here during Aviator Time; thinks everything is..."
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
I want to say that I read something about how Pelosi got along better with W. than Obama. A lot of long term House (and Senate, though not Reid) Democrats had that whole "who is this whippersnapper who suddenly became President and thinks he can talk as an equal to us" view IIRC. (That was one reason when McCain freaked out during the financial crisis maverick style and was all CANCEL THE DEBATES WE NEED TO GO TO WASHINGTON AND BE IN THE MEETINGS, Obama wisely kept mostly quiet and listened*, unlike McCain who tried to dominate the meetings as if he was already President over the still in office President/Treasury Secretary/Fed Chair/Senate and House leaders/etc.)

*In that one book about The Bailouts from...I forget who, someone who once or later worked for Goldman Sachs probably...he mentions how McCain kept trying to give orders while ignoring everyone telling him the details and then to be even handed they'd ask if Obama had any ideas and Obama would merely ask a good pointed question for more details on something.
 
D

daedalius

Member
benjipwns said:
IIRC, Newt and Bill did not get along personally. Though that was less Bill and more because Newt has a need to be the smartest person in every room in every dimension.

From what I understand, Boehner and Obama actually got along quite well outside of work doing stuff like golfing or watching movies.

"Coming in here during Aviator Time; thinks everything is..."
Click to expand...

Seems like it was all political theatre with Boehner, I really wish our politics weren't like this.

Him publically showing he got along with Obama would have been a kiss of death for him with the Republican Party.
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
benjipwns said:
I want to say that I read something about how Pelosi got along better with W. than Obama. A lot of long term House (and Senate, though not Reid) Democrats had that whole "who is this whippersnapper who suddenly became President and thinks he can talk as an equal to us" view IIRC.
Click to expand...

I read a piece on Pelosi last year that mentioned her distant relationship with Obama. He knew that she could pass anything through the House, so he gave her and her caucus less personal attention. Instead, he focused on Reid and the Senate, trying to ensure that the Blue Dogs wouldn't get cagey. (Worked wonders!) Pelosi took this remote confidence in her, for want of a better term, as a personal slight.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
Senate GOP won't release draft health care bill

https://www.axios.com/senate-gop-wrapping-up-health-care-bill-but-wont-release-it-2440345281.html

Senate Republicans are on track to finish writing their draft health care bill this evening, but have no plans to publicly release the bill, according to two senior Senate GOP aides.

"We aren't stupid," said one of the aides. One issue is that Senate Republicans plan to keep talking about it after the draft is done: "We are still in discussions about what will be in the final product so it is premature to release any draft absent further member conversations and consensus."

Why it matters: Democratic senators are already slamming Republicans for the secrecy of their bill writing process, and this isn't going to help. Republicans are sure to release the bill at some point, but it's unclear when — and they want to vote on it in the next three weeks, before the July 4 recess.

What to watch: When the bill is finished, it'll be sent to the Congressional Budget Office. It'll take CBO about two weeks to evaluate and score a draft bill. Senate Republicans then want to vote on the bill before the July 4th recess. "Conversations with CBO continue" but there are no new announcements about timing, said Don Stewart, a spokesman for Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, when asked about these plans.
Click to expand...
 
K

kirblar

Member
Autodidact said:
I read a piece on Pelosi last year that mentioned her distant relationship with Obama. He knew that she could pass anything through the House, so he gave her and her caucus less personal attention. Instead, he focused on Reid and the Senate, trying to ensure that the Blue Dogs wouldn't get cagey. (Worked wonders!) Pelosi took this remote confidence in her, for want of a better term, as a personal slight.
Click to expand...
This was something we were hearing randomly throughout his campaign and presidency- Obama is an introvert, and it drove a lot of people nuts cause they didn't understand not to take his lack of attention personally.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Pelosi continuing to be House Democratic Leader going on...what 15 years or so...continues to utterly baffle me. And Hoyer's been her number two for that entire time too.
 
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