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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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R

royalan

Member
whyamihere said:
Also Obamaworld and Clintonworld...
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Can you just let me have my moment!?

A1GIDl8.gif
 
N

numble

Member
Blader said:
I understand your argument just fine. I understood it the first time. I just happen to think "we won't vote to fund the government unless you abandon AHCA" is an inherently toothless threat from the Democrats when there's no reason to ever believe the GOP will respond to that, and I don't think cramping their reconciliation calendar a little more is any kind of gain. So what if they have to cram AHCA and tax cuts into one bill? Either they do and it works, or they don't and taxes get pushed back into a reconciliation bill for next year. Yeah, we've really derailed their agenda there, didn't we? And hey look at that, just in time for the midterms, some modest tax cuts coming to the American middle class to remind them of how great their Republican senators and congresspeople are!

Asking for the third time now: do you think Dems should refuse to lift the debt ceiling without winning concessions on healthcare and/or taxes?
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I'm never going to notice your responses if you stick it in an edit 15 minutes later. Just respond in a new post.

You have a pretty defeatist attitude given the fact that we know AHCA is on a short calendar right now. If the CR was more of a hump to the GOP, they wouldn't have been able to pass AHCA 6 days later, which would have delayed the Senate timetable until past the summer. Making it more difficult for the GOP to pass bills is a solid tactic.

I don't think they will want to pass the tax cuts during 2018. First off, passing tax cuts this year is required so that the voters see the lower taxes when they do their tax returns in April 2018. There is less of a political effect if they pass tax cuts in 2018, where it will only impact voters after the election. It is easier for opponents to rail against tax cuts for the rich when the average voter has not seen any tax benefits yet. And many people expect that Trump will have even lower approval ratings next year so the political window is narrow.

If your argument is that it is inevitable that the GOP will pass what it wants, why is there a push to get it delayed pass the July recess? The hope is that moderate politicians will face even more pressure from their home districts during the recess, and the fact that this bill is getting more unpopular the more time passes on.

I agree that if we are getting near the debt ceiling, the Democrats should force the GOP to use a reconciliation bill to increase the debt ceiling. I don't know why you keep bringing up the debt ceiling, however.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I'm really not getting the "Periello = Sanders" associations. Periello got support from many who supported Clinton/Obama. Periello can actually talk about race issues without falling flat on his face. They really don't seem that similar. To me it seems like Periello is the type of progressive that everybody should be ok with?

kirblar said:
This seems like a good explanation for what's going on.
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Makes a lot of sense

Poodlestrike said:
#HotTake: This shows that what we should be doing to win state and local elections from now until 2020 is ensuring our state and local parties are properly funded and supported, not trying to dictate terms or pick candidates. People from area know who people in area prefer.
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#High-Quality-Take
 
H

Holmes

Member
Northam squeaks a win in Prince William and sweeps NoVA.

Tbh despite wanting Perriello to win, I think Northam has all the regional advantages for the general.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
what we should be doing to win state and local elections from now until 2020 is ensuring our state and local parties are properly funded and supported, not trying to dictate terms or pick candidates.
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You mean poligaf shouldn't complain about somewhat conservative Democrats everytime Manchin or John Bel Edwards is brought up?
 
B

Blader

Member
Was Periello really a Clintonworld guy too? I would've thought that Northam, being McAuliffe's Lt. Gov, would've been backed by Clintonworld just by association.

numble said:
You have a pretty defeatist attitude given the fact that we know AHCA is on a short calendar right now. If the CR was more of a hump to the GOP, they wouldn't have been able to pass AHCA 6 days later, which would have delayed the Senate timetable until past the summer. Making it more difficult for the GOP to pass bills is a solid tactic.
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I mean, you could call it defeatist, I guess I just don't see time being enough of an issue when healthcare is literally their number one priority, so much so that they've staked the possibility of doing anything else -- outside of the requisite spending bill/debt ceiling stuff -- on how much money they can recoup out of repealing ACA. Given that, I don't see why they wouldn't just devote as much of the legislative calendar year as possible to passing AHCA, even if no other bill is passed in the meantime. Repealing Obamacare has been their all-consuming mission for 7 years, they're not going to stop doing it just because they had to wait a little bit longer. Remember that this bill has already died already and came back weeks later!

I would agree that delaying AHCA is a good tactic for derailing the rest of their legislative agenda. But I don't see procedural delays have any kind of tangible effect on AHCA's prospects itself. The bill is already overwhelmingly unpopular. The GOP continues to push for it because they don't care about that perception or the pressure they're getting from back home. So the strategy of "let this sit in the sun and become more painful for House/Senate Rs to support" seems like a dead end to me when those same Rs have already made the calculation to ignore that pain.

I don't think they will want to pass the tax cuts during 2018. First off, passing tax cuts this year is required so that the voters see the lower taxes when they do their tax returns in April 2018. There is less of a political effect if they pass tax cuts in 2018, where it will only impact voters after the election. It is easier for opponents to rail against tax cuts for the rich when the average voter has not seen any tax benefits yet.
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Fair point.

If your argument is that it is inevitable that the GOP will pass what it wants, why is there a push to get it delayed pass the July recess? The hope is that moderate politicians will face even more pressure from their home districts during the recess, and the fact that this bill is getting more unpopular the more time passes on.
Click to expand...

^see above

I agree that if we are getting near the debt ceiling, the Democrats should force the GOP to use a reconciliation bill to increase the debt ceiling. I don't know why you keep bringing up the debt ceiling, however.
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I brought it up because what I wanted to see if you supported Dems backing a clean debt ceiling lift, or refusing altogether and forcing Republicans to lift it themselves (assuming that party was even able to come together to do so, which is not at all guaranteed).
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Kick me if old.

But the Gallup Daily Tracker now has Trump at 36% Approval, 60% Disapproval.

That's the highest disapproval to date and the 24 point gap is the biggest margin between his approval and disapproval number. it feels like we might be moving to a new threshold. Previously he had been gyrating between the upper 30s and low 40s with the disapproval hovering in the mid 50s. I don't think his approval rating will dip into the low 30s just yet, but I do think getting into the low 40s will be much harder/rarer going forward and his disapproval will hover in the high 50s.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
I'm surprised Hannity can pull Trump's cock out of his mouth long enough to put on an hour long nightly show.

Who are we suppose to be rooting for in VA?
 
D

dramatis

Member
The Technomancer said:
Can anyone think of a good thread title for a discussion on this piece? Its fucking incredible but I think if I just take the title from the article it won't draw a lot of eyes

http://www.mtv.com/news/3019514/in-...-davis-at-a-walmart-soda-counter-in-arkansas/
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There was an odd podcast I listened to a while back which had as a participating guest a researcher who looked up what corporations were doing, and by the end concluded that because of the inaction of government and our decades-long string of mistakes and slowness in the public sphere, corporations have actually become strangely essential to doing the things we need done, like combating climate change.
 
V

Vixdean

Member
I'll be honest, if the only thing Mueller finds on Trump and co is obstruction of justice, then this whole thing will have been a total waste of time. What then? Trump on the stand testifying "well that depends on what the definition of 'hope' is"? Fuck that, if there's no collusion then Democrats should just move on.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Vixdean said:
I'll be honest, if the only thing Mueller finds on Trump and co is obstruction of justice, then this whole thing will have been a total waste of time. What then? Trump on the stand testifying "well that depends on what the definition of 'hope' is"? Fuck that, if there's no collusion then Democrats should just move on.
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This is bizarre.

You get that obstruction of justice is a violation of the president's constitutional duties and was the primary citation in Nixon's impeachment, right?
 
F

Fox318

Member
pigeon said:
This is bizarre.

You get that obstruction of justice is a violation of the president's constitutional duties and was the primary citation in Nixon's impeachment, right?
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Nixon didn't have Fox News and a significant portion of the nation exclusively listing to one outlet.

This is the southern strategy at work. No matter what will happen people will have their little fort of politics and they use fear of changing demographics or culture.
 
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