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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
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PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Why do so many nazis on twitter use greek sculptures as their avatars?
it's just a signal. like FPS avatars on NeoGAF.
Macron beat LePen 65-35
Huge polling error. Another Brexit, basically.
Abinash117
Member
What were the changes added to AHCA? One of the changes I do know is allowing states to waive preexisting conditions.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
100%.
for everyone else:
You see in Trump vs Le Pen once again that authoritarian nationalist movements only win with the support of the establishment right.
VendettaRed07
Member
Maybe 2016 was just a year where the world lost its mind
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Maybe 2016 was just a year where the world lost its mind
Rather, 2016 is when 9/11 + 2008 Market Collapse Reaction (bankers go free in US; Austerity rules EU in Europe) finally came home to roost.
This feels painfully obvious but maybe I'm simple.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
100%.
for everyone else:
Broadly true, yes. Of course, the question you then have to ask is: under what circumstances does the establishment right side with fascism and why?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Broadly true, yes. Of course, the question you then have to ask is: under what circumstances does the establishment right side with fascism and why?
Where far right media and fascist / isolationist movements (See: Tea Party) gutted the supposedly responsible centrist right, of course.
Edit: Read -- where the establishment right is/was at risk of actually losing seats without playing along with the fascists. Trump and Brexit both fall into this w/NewsCorp.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Broadly true, yes. Of course, the question you then have to ask is: under what circumstances does the establishment right side with fascism and why?
places with a two party system
so, under shitty electoral systems like the US and UK, mostly
alternatively: places that really haven't had to deal with fascism historically.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I would also say that the establishment right needs to feel the challenger isn't a threat to them.Where far right media and fascist / isolationist movements (See: Tea Party) gutted the supposedly responsible centrist right, of course.
As in, the challenger from the left, I mean.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I would also say that the establishment right needs to feel the challenger isn't a threat to them.
As in, the challenger from the left, I mean.
Perhaps at the parliamentary level. This doesn't really work for Hillary v Trump.
So what you're saying is that centrist Republican voters are a dying breed?Where far right media and fascist / isolationist movements (See: Tea Party) gutted the supposedly responsible centrist right, of course.
Edit: Read -- where the establishment right is/was at risk of actually losing seats without playing along with the fascists. Trump and Brexit both fall into this w/NewsCorp.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Scalia, I think, presented a serious threat to them.Perhaps at the parliamentary level. This doesn't really work for Hillary v Trump.
VendettaRed07
Member
I hope he doesn't.he'd fail spectacularly.
I still think if the GOP manages to get themselves together, they should run ONE primary challenger and tell everyone else to fuck off. And I think Kasich would be the best candidate to run with because he's one of the only republicans that I'd say managed to successfully distance themselves from Trump.
I think if it is just him vs Trump he can definitely win. Trump never got a majority in a single state till everyone else dropped off. They should do their best to see if they can get him out in a 1v1 scenario
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I hope he doesn't.
I still think if the GOP manages to get themselves together, they should run ONE primary challenger and tell everyone else to fuck off. And I think Kasich would be the best candidate to run with because he's one of the only republicans that I'd say managed to successfully distance themselves from Trump.
I think if it is just him vs Trump he can definitely win. Trump never got a majority in a single state till everyone else dropped off. They should do their best to see if they can get him out in a 1v1 scenario
It would be unheard of for a party to primary its incumbent president, especially when said president is still popular with the party base
Trump would have to take an enormous dive in popularity within the party for them to even consider that
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I still think Le Pen takes this.
[does not post for another week]
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D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
So what you're saying is that centrist Republican voters are a dying breed?
I don't think so, at least. Just, how different electoral groups interact differs under different electoral systems. Say in both France and US, you have something like: 22% socialist, 27% neoliberal, 25% neoconservative, 26% fascist. In the French system, coalitions are made after the election. That is, all four blocs compete equally in the first round, and then the two smaller blocs have to choose what to do afterward. In this case, fascist and neoliberal go through. Neoconservative decides neoliberal is better, so they swing that way, and neoliberal wins.
In the US system, the coalitions are predecided. The neoconservatives and fascists are already in the same party. If the fascists win, the neoconservatives therefore get at least some influence. So the neoconservatives side with the fascists, and so the fascists win.
Two-party systems force everyone to decide their coalition before the election happens and therefore before any of the groups involved know their relative position. It's a really terrible way of doing things. There are still probably a lot of centrist Republicans, but they feel like with Trump, they have some influence, at least, whereas if the Democrats win, they have no influence, and some influence is better than no influence, so they'd rather have Trump.
I mean getting away with it as in they'll pass something that still does a lot of damage. Hopefully not as awful as the House bill, but still terrible nonetheless.Absolutely not. None of this is working at all, people still despise this bill.
Still not sure how anything from the Senate will work in the House and vice versa. But it can give the House GOP what they always wanted, to piss all over the biggest domestic thing he did as President. So they might vote for a more moderate version of the bill once that reality is finally staring them in the face.
Will it? I'm assuming it'll look very similar to the first CBO report. The House rolled the dice already, they don't give a shit. The senate on the other hand is already planning on creating their own bill, so they'll simply dismiss the report and get to work.
The 24 million number came from the first CBO report. Given the changes to the bill for the worse, the number is likely to be much, much higher in the second report.
Imagine if it's like 40 million, 50 million, some massive number, given the changes to the pre-existing conditions it could be a hideous number to have your Yes vote attached to, as though 24 million wasn't bad enough.
Broadly true, yes. Of course, the question you then have to ask is: under what circumstances does the establishment right side with fascism and why?
When they're collaborationists?
In America the establishment right did more or less side with Trump, but they also assumed, and mostly behaved, as though he were guaranteed to lose. So in this case the answer was "for cynical political gain," which I suspect is pretty common. It is actually pretty much exactly what happened with Brexit as well.
Broadly true, yes. Of course, the question you then have to ask is: under what circumstances does the establishment right side with fascism and why?
Is it a question of national character or one of national structure? The Republicans are a truly vile, principle-free group of shitheads, but I think the two party system is likely to blame.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Is it a question of national character or one of national structure? The Republicans are a truly vile, principle-free group of shitheads, but I think the two party system is likely to blame.
I agree, very much! FPTP is dreadful.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I agree, very much! FPTP is dreadful.
FPTP can work in theory. But kinda like Libertarian Philosophy, it's dependent on rational humans, of which we are not.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Huh, no it doesn't. FPTP will never accurately represent true preferences because the rational decision is to vote for the least bad electable candidate.FPTP can work in theory. But kinda like Libertarian Philosophy, it's dependent on rational humans, of which we are not.
Also are there demographic breakdowns on the second round yet>
Huh, no it doesn't. FPTP will never accurately represent true preferences because the rational decision is to vote for the least bad electable candidate.
Also are there demographic breakdowns on the second round yet>
FPTP doesn't create this. There's no such thing as a perfect politician, so you're always voting for the least bad.
metalslimer
Member
FPTP doesn't create this. There's no such thing as a perfect politician, so you're always voting for the least bad.
True but it certainly magnifies it.
When Ossoff wins in June, I fully expect voter fraud allegations to prop up again.
I do wonder if the healthcare debate will help him as much considering that his district is more well off and the bill doesn't hurt them as much.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
In list PR, I see a list of a parties, I choose the one closest to my beliefs and vote for them. If I prefer the Greens over the SPD or The Left, I can vote Green without any worries. If I feel the Greens no longer accurately represent my beliefs, I can change to vote SPD or for The Left.FPTP doesn't create this. There's no such thing as a perfect politician, so you're always voting for the least bad.
In FPTP, I have to vote SPD because they're the largest and most likely candidate in my riding to win, so to best represent my beliefs I have to choose the least-bad candidate of the two options.
FPTP doesn't create this. There's no such thing as a perfect politician, so you're always voting for the least bad.
Well, FPTP isn't "vote for least bad" (essentially voting for your favorite regardless of their chances) it's "vote in way for best likely outcome" (accounting not only for policy/person, but likelihood of them actually winning)
(except a chunk of the population still doesn't understand this so they fuck up)
edit: I think they basically meant "lesser of two evils" which FPTP also promotes
Talk about taking one for the teamLuckily us electing Trump seems to have shaken the rest of the world out of their fascist fever dream.
Framing idea: present modern day Nazis claiming random symbols as their own is invalid cultural appropriation.Why do so many nazis on twitter use greek sculptures as their avatars?
Yeah, That One Frog became a symbol for them through years of association and because it began as a niche "meme". But Nazis don't get ownership of concepts just like Gamergate doesn't get ownership of gaming as a concept.
It is quite ironic that the Nazis are choosing this as their next symbol though, because the ancient Athenian vision of masculinity wouldn't fly under their chimpanzee mindset. Also, vaporware already claimed statue aesthetics!
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Luckily us electing Trump seems to have shaken the rest of the world out of their fascist fever dream.
This would be a nice story, but the FN were going to lose long before Trump, and if anything, Trump empowered them by lending credence to their narrative of 'they could win', which influences the way people perceive them. They would probably have done worse if Trump hadn't won, not better.
Talk about taking one for the team
At least our issue is temporary. Britain is leaving the EU forever. LOL britain!
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
nice
Bernie Sanders
@BernieSanders
Congratulations to the people of France who today, by an overwhelming vote, rejected racism and xenophobia.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
At least our issue is temporary. Britain is leaving the EU forever. LOL britain!
This is, sadly, very true.
EDIT: Until the UK rejoins, anyway. Give it 25 years.
Macho Madness
Member
No, Crab. Ignore that they got more vote share than ever. Ignore that. Status quo is fine.This would be a nice story, but the FN were going to lose long before Trump, and if anything, Trump empowered them by lending credence to their narrative of 'they could win', which influences the way people perceive them. They would probably have done worse if Trump hadn't won, not better.
How much of a Brain Drain problem has the UK had? I wonder if some of the same forces that affect the midwest (decline in manufacturing, the best and brightest pack up and move out) have been in play there.At least our issue is temporary. Britain is leaving the EU forever. LOL britain!
He can do lots of damage in four years though. Hillary could have picked up where Obama left off, which would have been challenging, but the next time Dems win they're going to now have to hit the ground running... again.At least our issue is temporary. Britain is leaving the EU forever. LOL britain!
Healthcare, financial regulation, immigration... SCOTUS, which will be 'forever' in the sense that we will be very old when Gorsuch and any other conservative justice Trump may appoint steps down...
Decisions that impact climate change are definitely forever
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
We can always just hope Kennedy dies.He can do lots of damage in four years though. Hillary could have picked up where Obama left off, which would have been challenging, but the next time Dems win they're going to now have to hit the ground running... again.
Healthcare, financial regulation, immigration... SCOTUS, which will be 'forever' in the sense that we will be very old when Gorsuch and any other conservative justice steps down...
I think he might step down soon. Wasn't there an article about itWe can always just hope Kennedy dies.
LOL BRITAIN
I think it is logical that anti-EU groups do better as the European project suxitup. I agree with Krugman when he says people take affirmation of the status quo (by increasingly thin margins) as an excuse not to have to do anything.
No, Crab. Ignore that they got more vote share than ever. Ignore that. Status quo is fine.
I think it is logical that anti-EU groups do better as the European project suxitup. I agree with Krugman when he says people take affirmation of the status quo (by increasingly thin margins) as an excuse not to have to do anything.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
nice
neoliberal shill smh
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