Yeah, if anything the healthcare vote rallies Handel voters who'll get that kickback in their bank account.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
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Yeah, if anything the healthcare vote rallies Handel voters who'll get that kickback in their bank account.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I meant after Trump is no longer president.I think he might step down soon. Wasn't there an article about it
This is a perfect example of why it's easier to succeed in politics when you have an enemy you can point to.neoliberal shill smh
This and his reaction to Trump's AU HC blunder are what we need out of him.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I think he might step down soon. Wasn't there an article about it
There were, but I was told that it might be wishful thinking on the part of the GOP.
Well he is pretty old.There were, but I was told that it might be wishful thinking on the part of the GOP.
Can't imagine the stress he must feel at his age every day knowing what him leaving the court can potentially do to things he's passionate about
He's gotta be feeling torn at the very least
No, Crab. Ignore that they got more vote share than ever. Ignore that. Status quo is fine.
12% abstention rate, and most of those seemed to be Melenchonistes, vote-splitting on the left from people who can't support the establishment but refuse to back Fascism.
Lots of people think that Trumpcare's going to die in the senate.
This is presumably due to people like John "only an idiot would vote to repeal the filibuster for supreme court appointments" McCain.
For some reason, I'm not confident.
This is presumably due to people like John "only an idiot would vote to repeal the filibuster for supreme court appointments" McCain.
For some reason, I'm not confident.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Well he is pretty old.
Can't imagine the stress he must feel at his age every day knowing what him leaving the court can potentially do to things he's passionate about
He's gotta be feeling torn at the very least
I would think that all of them are feeling it right now.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Lots of people think that Trumpcare's going to die in the senate.
This is presumably due to people like John "only an idiot would vote to repeal the filibuster for supreme court appointments" McCain.
For some reason, I'm not confident.
I would bet on *some* bill coming out of the senate. The subsequent conference committee bill, on the other hand...
I just hope the craziest of crazy provisions like employers being able to deny coverage for any little fucking thing doesn't go through.Lots of people think that Trumpcare's going to die in the senate.
This is presumably due to people like John "only an idiot would vote to repeal the filibuster for supreme court appointments" McCain.
For some reason, I'm not confident.
But yeah I don't think it can fully pass the Senate, will need to be heavily modified. They might call it a new bill but I think that's just smart PR. It may technically be new but a watered down AHCA which is still trash.
Either way it not dying before it can reach mini-Hitler's desk is a legit tragedy for the health of so many people and will genuinely make life hell for anyone who has been injured or has any kind of condition ranging from minuscule to serious. Which is a LOT OF FUCKING PEOPLE now that employers would be able to tell you to fuck off as well.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
This is where I'm at.Lots of people think that Trumpcare's going to die in the senate.
This is presumably due to people like John "only an idiot would vote to repeal the filibuster for supreme court appointments" McCain.
For some reason, I'm not confident.
The consensus position on the AHCA passing the House before was that getting the Freedom Caucus on board was too toxic to the representatives in swing districts to get on board but that was wrong, so I'm skeptical that we'll see much more than some "very concerned" from John McCain while he votes for basically the same toxic shit.
If I had to place a bet, I'd guess the senate's version is watered down and doesn't fuck up healthcare quite as bad (but doesn't help anything either), and it'll pass because at this point for the GOP it's not about getting what they want and it's more about not looking like total failures that can't pass anything.
I was more surprised about them failing to pass something the first time around than I was about them passing something in the second round.
I was more surprised about them failing to pass something the first time around than I was about them passing something in the second round.
The entire thing w/ the house bill was to placate Trump.If I had to place a bet, I'd guess the senate's version is watered down and doesn't fuck up healthcare quite as bad (but doesn't help anything either), and it'll pass because at this point for the GOP it's not about getting what they want and it's more about not looking like total failures that can't pass anything.
metalslimer
Member
The house bill being completely scrapped though would pretty much show the freedom caucus they have no power if they end up voting for it
I mean they are spineless pieces of shit bit if they were going to vote for a watered down bill it doesn't make much sense why it failed the first time.
I mean they are spineless pieces of shit bit if they were going to vote for a watered down bill it doesn't make much sense why it failed the first time.
Only way I see the bill not passing when it comes back to the house is if there's a huge public outcry in the meantime. Not just bad poll numbers, but a proactive outcry -- protests, more yelling at townhalls (is there even an opportunity for that coming up?), etc. Otherwise, GOP will pass their shit bill and just continue to lie about it and pretend it's a great accomplishment that'll improve healthcare and give everyone unicorns. They know if they fail to pass something after all this, they'll be seen as a total embarrassment of a party.
There's always a tipping point. They'd like the establishment GOP to cave to FC, but they don't want to ruin the GOP entirely.
The house bill being completely scrapped though would pretty much show the freedom caucus they have no power if they end up voting for it
I mean they are spineless pieces of shit bit if they were going to vote for a watered down bill it doesn't make much sense why it failed the first time.
There's always a tipping point. They'd like the establishment GOP to cave to FC, but they don't want to ruin the GOP entirely.
metalslimer
Member
Only way I see the bill not passing when it comes back to the house is if there's a huge public outcry in the meantime. Not just bad poll numbers, but a proactive outcry -- protests, more yelling at townhalls (is there even an opportunity for that coming up?), etc. Otherwise, GOP will pass their shit bill and just continue to lie about it and pretend it's a great accomplishment that'll improve healthcare and give everyone unicorns. They know if they fail to pass something after all this, they'll be seen as a total embarrassment of a party.
The first bill had a huge outcry with people yelling at their congressman and they ended up voting for a worst one. The only chance left is the Senate bill is too moderate for either the hyper conservatives in the Senate or the freedom caucus. People need to stay active though
Yeah, if anything the healthcare vote rallies Handel voters who'll get that kickback in their bank account.
Rich people don't support this bill either. Except y2kev
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Do they not? I assumed they were at the core of that 17% support.Rich people don't support this bill either. Except y2kev
They want to hurt Obama and his legacy as much as possible. They'll vote for itThe house bill being completely scrapped though would pretty much show the freedom caucus they have no power if they end up voting for it
I mean they are spineless pieces of shit bit if they were going to vote for a watered down bill it doesn't make much sense why it failed the first time.
I also think they genuinely want to hurt people. Not just poor people. Like basically everyone is a second class piece of crap in their eyes and rich people deserve yet another tax cut
exmachina64
Banned
I do wonder if the healthcare debate will help him as much considering that his district is more well off and the bill doesn't hurt them as much.
They still develop "pre-existing conditions" that make health care unaffordable.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/861287325111787520Jon Favreau‏Verified account @jonfavs 2h2 hours ago
More
Jon Favreau Retweeted Matthew Yglesias
A very important point. Fillon and the French right didn't capitulate to Le Pen like DC Republicans did to Trump.
I think this is a very important point to think about when it comes to what GOP in the US compared to what happened in France.
That was weeks ago. Outrage had mostly died down.The first bill had a huge outcry with people yelling at their congressman and they ended up voting for a worst one. The only chance left is the Senate bill is too moderate for either the hyper conservatives in the Senate or the freedom caucus. People need to stay active though
The outcry had died down after the first failure and they made sure to be quick this time around -- it came and went, people feel defeated rather than activated. GOP has long been aware that outrage is fleeting -- they've been playing this game for years with gov shutdowns etc.
Ideally, outrage is maximized right as they're trying to vote -- that's when it's hardest to ignore, which is partly why they try to be quick about this stuff -- prevent it from building up. They accomplished that this second time around -- basically came out of nowhere and caught everyone off guard. I'm worried that the headlines about "GOP passed" and "now, pre-existing conditions..." mislead people into thinking it's too late. Not sure it'll be possible to build enough outrage to prevent the next few stages (senate, back to house, trump) -- too many people may already feel defeated.
Plus, they strategically message this stuff. They pitched this new bill as a fixed version. Yes, it's worse, but the media was no longer talking about how it will kick millions off their healthcare -- the worst parts of the bill were old news and aren't getting the same amount of coverage.
https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/861287325111787520
I think this is a very important point to think about when it comes to what GOP in the US compared to what happened in France.
A tale as old as time. Fascists have collaborators.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
This is so dumb.
I love how this article on HuffPo call out Goodman's HuffPo articles a number of times.
Tells you all you need to know right there.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Someone should make a thread about it and see what the reaction from people here.
excelsiorlef
Member
Now, The Young Turks has long drawn the ire of leftists for their decision to focus on the Trump agenda more than the issues within the Democratic Party.
Jesus fuck... what level of derangement do you need to reach to get mad at that.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The GOP covering up for Ivanka and Kushner's crimes seems like a bad call.
When we regain power, we'll have the ability to put Ivanka and Kushner in prison if we want to.
And Ivanka and Kushner are like the most obvious snitches of all time.
So we could really threaten Ivanka and Kushner with imprisonment and then they would squeal on everyone in the GOP (which they have the knowledge to do since Trump is giving them so much info).
When we regain power, we'll have the ability to put Ivanka and Kushner in prison if we want to.
And Ivanka and Kushner are like the most obvious snitches of all time.
So we could really threaten Ivanka and Kushner with imprisonment and then they would squeal on everyone in the GOP (which they have the knowledge to do since Trump is giving them so much info).
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Jesus fuck... what level of derangement do you need to reach to get mad at that.
This is what the Bernie wing is all about. They don't care about Trump but only what the Democrat Party is doing.
jack_package_200
Banned
Someone should make a thread about it and see what the reaction from people here.
I think most people would call out Lmao Goodman for what he is.
Someone should make it tho.
The GOP covering up for Ivanka and Kushner's crimes seems like a bad call.
When we regain power, we'll have the ability to put Ivanka and Kushner in prison if we want to.
And Ivanka and Kushner are like the most obvious snitches of all time.
So we could really threaten Ivanka and Kushner with imprisonment and then they would squeal on everyone in the GOP (which they have the knowledge to do since Trump is giving them so much info).
In a perfect world, Democrats would do exactly this.
I love how this article on HuffPo call out Goodman's HuffPo articles a number of times.
The Huffington Post, as noted by the article itself, doesn't have any oversight and as such it should receive the same connotations as the dreaded "Forbes contributor".
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I mean, Bush and co. lied to start a catastrophic war and have faced zero problems after losing power so I'm not sure I'd be too worried if I'm a Trumpist.The GOP covering up for Ivanka and Kushner's crimes seems like a bad call.
When we regain power, we'll have the ability to put Ivanka and Kushner in prison if we want to.
And Ivanka and Kushner are like the most obvious snitches of all time.
So we could really threaten Ivanka and Kushner with imprisonment and then they would squeal on everyone in the GOP (which they have the knowledge to do since Trump is giving them so much info).
The Huffington Post, as noted by the article itself, doesn't have any oversight and as such it should receive the same connotations as the dreaded "Forbes contributor".
HuffPost Blog is just as garbage as the Forbes Contributor section, we should all know that already.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
In a perfect world, Democrats would do exactly this.
Would you rather have Kushner in prison or have Kushner squeal on Sessions and McConnell and the rest?
I mean, Bush and co. lied to start a catastrophic war and have faced zero problems after losing power so I'm not sure I'd be too worried if I'm a Trumpist.
They didn't really commit any easy to enforce crimes.
It seems like Ivanka and Kushner are committing obvious crimes that would not be difficult to imprison someone for.
Ivanka and Kushner look like they would snitch way earlier than Bush's cronies would have.
excelsiorlef
Member
Guy who wrote that is as much an idiot as Goodman lol
This happened just in time for the beginning of the 2016 presidential primaries, and for the year that Bernie Sanders fought valiantly against Hillary Clinton and the establishment, corporatist wing of the Democratic Party, TYT was my go-to source for news and commentary.
TYT, with all of its hosts, guests, and satellite shows, was and still is the exemplary of liberal-left progressive media. (To this day, I refuse to hate on it along with most of my fellow leftists). But when Sanders was finally defeated last June and endorsed Clinton, and then TYT shifted the focus of their coverage to be more anti-Trump than anything else, I lost heart.
That was the beginning of my radicalization. That was when I finally took the first step away from liberal progressiveness, and towards radical, anticapitalist leftism. And I was far from alone.
Along the way, we progressives-turned-leftists discarded most of what we had loved from the bygone days of 2015. TYTs endless coverage of Donald Trump disgusted me. I was reminded of the late Bush years, when all liberal media was united in their opposition to the president, except now I saw their hypocrisy: the massive inequities of the Obama years were (and are) still fresh in my mind.
I realized that Elizabeth Warren is an opportunistic fraud. I saw Bernie Sanders stumping for Hillary Clinton, the epitome of everything he was supposed to stand against. I heard Cenk Uygur defend capitalism. Most of the regular hosts of The Young Turks, actually, began to disappoint me on a regular basis.
With one notable exception. Jimmy Dore, comedian and political satirist, refused throughout the general election to balk at Trump and let up on the Democrats. He refused to tone down his criticisms of the status quo, to pull any punches on the neoliberal establishment that has ruined this country (and indeed, the world).
Then, after the election, with my feet planted firmly in the radical left, this happened:
I still remember the feeling I got the first time I watched this video. A mix of surprise, disbelief, and amazement washed over me. Was I really hearing such impassioned, ferocious polemics against Barack Obama, from a member of the progressive media?
Whats more: Jimmy Dore stated, outright, that capitalism is failing. No qualifiers. Not corporatism. Not crony capitalism, whatever that means. Capitalism is failing, and Jimmy Dore isnt afraid to tell you about it.
Over the next few months, Jimmy Dore proved himself to be a mind far beyond the progressive media. After the death of Fidel Castro, Dore made several videos on his own YouTube channel, The Jimmy Dore Show, highlighting Castros accomplishments and calling out American hypocrisy on Cuba. He began calling out American imperialism with ever-growing conviction. He continued to criticize capitalism, and was always fair towards communism without explicitly endorsing it.
I wasnt the only leftist to notice. Across social media, jokes about Comrade Jimmy Dore and Jimmy Dore Thought against Cenk Uygur Revisionism began to crop up. Leftists I know were sharing Dores videos at the same time as they criticized the rest of TYT and abandoned their love of Bernie Sanders. Dore himself has been completely unafraid to criticize Sanders when the occasion calls for it.
And its all because Jimmy Dore continues to tell the truth, no matter how he is criticized or marginalized. His appearances on TYTs flagship show have become more sporadic as he is relegated to the members-only Aggressive Progressives, where he has continued to speak truth to power. Even when Youtube de-monetized many of his videos, he plowed ahead, calling out Western lies about Syria and Bashar al-Assad, further cementing his place as a voice against imperialism.
Jimmy Dore may or may not consider himself a communist, socialist, or anti-capitalist. I am not here to tell anybody that he is secretly a radical leftist. I dont know him.
But what I do know is that if he isnt one of those things, hes damn sure close to it. He has done what no other progressive has been able to do: earn the respect and adulation of the radical left, without placing himself firmly among us.
What Jimmy Dore has proven himself to be, however, is a courageous truth-teller with an open mind and a passion for justice. Whatever his ultimate feelings about capitalism, he is an ally of ours.
And maybe, just maybe, there is room for him to move even further to the left.
#RadicalizeJimmy
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/radica...2017/04/jimmy-dore-became-unlikely-hero-left/
Crazy pants left isn't dangerous they're just useless and easily distracted by windmills
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Some of you are so far gone right now. Read what you're typing right now. Imprison Kushner and Ivanka?
Some of you are so far gone right now. Read what you're typing right now. Imprison Kushner and Ivanka?
They're apparently using Trump's position to sell favors to foreign nationals (visas was the example I read) in order to make money. That's literally corruption in the oldest sense, the kind that gets you thrown in jail for a very long time.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-chinese-beijing-ballroom-event-a7721611.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...cd836fcf287_story.html?utm_term=.9366d0635cf8
jack_package_200
Banned
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/861291957036892160
"If you aren't thrilled with the candidates you should clearly be voting for the fascists. Duh."
"If you aren't thrilled with the candidates you should clearly be voting for the fascists. Duh."
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Okay, but just for the sake of not being hypocrites, shouldn't someone answer for why Huma was sending work e-mails to Anthony Weiner for him to print out?
whyamihere
Banned
http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/quist-gianforte-montana-poll
In the race for Montanas at-large House seat, Republican Greg Gianforte led Democratic Rob Quist by six points in a poll conducted by a Democratic super PAC late last month.
Gianforte led Quist 49 to 43 percent. That includes undecided voters pushed for a lean toward one candidate or the other.
Senate Majority PAC surveyed 601 midterm election voters statewide from April 25 through 27. According to the May 5 polling memo from Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group, 95 percent of respondents planned to vote in the May 25 special election. The memo did not include a margin of error.
Respondents reported voting for President Donald Trump 55 to 33 percent. (Trump carried the state by 21 points last fall.) Democrats are optimistic that even some of those Trump voters will be looking for a check on the president when casting their votes later this month.
Democrats are hopeful that an energized base will boost their turnout numbers for the special election, with the polling memo pointing to an enthusiasm gap. Among the most two-thirds of the polls sample who reported being most motivated to vote, Gianforte's lead narrowed to 48-47 percent.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Some of you are so far gone right now. Read what you're typing right now. Imprison Kushner and Ivanka?
Kushner this week was publicly advertising the idea that if you invested with his family, he would use his influence to get your visa approved.
This seems like something you could get imprisoned for?
Invest $500,000 and immigrate to the United States, the events brochure claimed, according to the Washington Post, which first reported the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ed-for-touting-cash-for-visas-scheme-in-china
Okay, but just for the sake of not being hypocrites, shouldn't someone answer for why Huma was sending work e-mails to Anthony Weiner for him to print out?
Unless that stuff was known to be classified there's literally no crime there though.
EDIT: You're comparing influence peddling to "oh honey print that out for me, kthx"
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
That was weeks ago. Outrage had mostly died down.
The outcry had died down after the first failure and they made sure to be quick this time around -- it came and went, people feel defeated rather than activated. GOP has long been aware that outrage is fleeting -- they've been playing this game for years with gov shutdowns etc.
Ideally, outrage is maximized right as they're trying to vote -- that's when it's hardest to ignore, which is partly why they try to be quick about this stuff -- prevent it from building up. They accomplished that this second time around -- basically came out of nowhere and caught everyone off guard. I'm worried that the headlines about "GOP passed" and "now, pre-existing conditions..." mislead people into thinking it's too late. Not sure it'll be possible to build enough outrage to prevent the next few stages (senate, back to house, trump) -- too many people may already feel defeated.
Plus, they strategically message this stuff. They pitched this new bill as a fixed version. Yes, it's worse, but the media was no longer talking about how it will kick millions off their healthcare -- the worst parts of the bill were old news and aren't getting the same amount of coverage.
It can be really effective actually to push forward with policies that would get big reactions from the opposition, let it fail, then rush whatever through once you can tell the momentum for opposition to come out again is gone. People don't want to eat drink and snort politics every day; they might come out once in a long while to march, but it gets old quick, and every time it ultimately fails people feel like their past hope and enthusiasm was innocent and excessive optimism, and they lose more interest with every round.
People without jobs or with nothing to do due to cultural, physical (age), or religious reasons (no fun allowed, don't hang out with the weird kids, stay in your congregation bubble) are much more likely to keep on protesting forever. The right has a strong advantage using such tactics. The population is getting older, jobs are being automated with fewer accessible opportunities emerging, so their ranks will grow. Only the religious side might shrink, but it's being replaced with conspiracy theories and other anti-science equivalents anyway, anything that can fuel a pessimistic world view to undermine the advancement or world views of "the others".
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Kushner this week was publicly advertising the idea that if you invested with his family, he would use his influence to get your visa approved.
This seems like something you could get imprisoned for?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ed-for-touting-cash-for-visas-scheme-in-china
Under what law? Lay out the prosecutorial position.
Kushner this week was publicly advertising the idea that if you invested with his family, he would use his influence to get your visa approved.
This seems like something you could get imprisoned for?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ed-for-touting-cash-for-visas-scheme-in-china
I've only skimmed, but isn't the investor visa a normal thing? I know other countries have similar visa options (I've looked into visas for startups/small businesses etc). My interpretation was that it's not "invest $500k in me to get visa from my dad in law," it's "visa rules allow you to get a visa if you invest $500k, and I'm a good investment" -- have a feeling many groups seeking investment talk about the visa perks.
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