NinajHeartless
Member
Shoutouts to El Sloth for playing me despite my terribad college internet connection.
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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines
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Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Lol, what's an example if you don't mind?
We don't know quite how many total we're going to get to do, but our plan is for more than two. Including men.
Mandatory free update pack - you won't be able to play online until you get it.
Shoutouts to Ninaj playing me despite my brother downloading a shit load of torrents.
Could you tell I only knew how to play Peacock? Dem assist characters.
How do you IAD? Just jump and dash immediately after you tilt the stick upwards?
Yeah it's happened to me a couple of times. It's only for a split second though so it doesn't really distract me.
Yeah it's happened to me a couple of times. It's only for a split second though so it doesn't really distract me.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
This game is better than I thought it would be. In fact, I am very impressed with it. It is comparable to most $60 retail games imo. Lots of fun and quite deep. I did pretty good online I guess.
GG zxsythe, man this game runs so smooth!!! sucked we could do a ranbat tho
GGs! t'was fun playing with you.
Time to see how well el sloth plays...
Yeah, unfortunately this is just because the HDD can't keep up with the streaming needs of the game in certain circumstances. It happens rarely on the PS3 version, and more often in the 360 version because their package format slows loading down further.
When we address the 360 load time issues, it should make those things happen far less often. And when we free up some additional memory, we're planning to put low-res versions of the characters in to display instead of the hitboxes.
NinajHeartless
Member
Yeah it was pretty obvious.
Once she was out, I pretty much had the match.I apologize for the disrespectful random supers, tryin' to use dem lag tactics!
I really need to find someone to play this game offline with because whenever I play games primarily online, I develop bad habits. :/
I keep trying to play Ms. Fortune the way I play C-Ryougi in Melty.
Airdash with jump fierce all day + staggering with rekkas.
I still haven't gotten the hang of doing combos online, the stuttering really makes anything that requires a slight amount of timing not even worth the effort when I can just combo into rekkas and cancel them into Cat Scratch Fever. -__-
I learned IADing from Melty Blood, but to my knowledge that's about the jist of it.
Just takes some practice...if this game had a way of showing notations I would actually be able to give you a more detailed description.
Speaking of IADs, I really need to learn how to do it without the use of a two button air dash...
"God's Beard!"
Member
Oh sure, it's even more exaggerated than Darkstalkers and it's a super budget game so I shouldn't complain that there are fewer frames of animation. I just think they overdo it with the overlapping frames and it makes it hard for me to tell what's happening. Like it's blurry or something, even though I know it's not.
Master Milk
Member
I need a way to combo into Double's Lv 3
That boss is craaazy.
On another note, I found that turning down the sound effects volume to 50% (while keeping the music and voices the same), fixes the weirdness of the hit effects sounding a bit out of place. Seriously, it's much better this way. You guys should try it. You can turn the volume up a bit and hear the jams much better now.
On another note, I found that turning down the sound effects volume to 50% (while keeping the music and voices the same), fixes the weirdness of the hit effects sounding a bit out of place. Seriously, it's much better this way. You guys should try it. You can turn the volume up a bit and hear the jams much better now.
That sounds great! Thanks for replying and clearing things up for all of us <3
Except there are more?
Interesting. Kinda like the Burnout Paradise approach. I guess then DLC characters will be released in waves to keep up with the latest pack or offering. TBH it seems like the most expensive approach, and I wouldn't have expected it.
Demo already hurts my 20GB HDD though, I'm closely reaching complete HDD saturation.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Maybe I'm not explaining myself right. I appreciate the creativity you guys put into the game, but the animation makes it hard for me to see what my character is doing. Almost like the chunkier animation of the blazblu games. Sometimes I'm not convinced my character is moving so much as flicking between transition frames like this:
But then again, my eyes aren't that great so little things that don't bother most people bother me. I can't play first person shooters without getting sick, for instance.
my impression of fillia playing her solo is that well she really needs an assist, something like drones, a slow horizontal assist fits her best. i do feel that the characters recover from hitstun way to fast, but maybe thats cause im used to mvc3.
and am still free to zoning, peacock is a fucking monster.
and am still free to zoning, peacock is a fucking monster.
Yeah, it might be more expensive, but as far as we're concerned it's the only way to really do it right.
Since we plan to roll out free game updates, those will basically be included with the DLC characters, and you'll have to purchase the character unlock to play as them.
It's... kind of like the Valve model? Give people free stuff and the option to buy stuff, and hopefully goodwill will win out?
Just up/uf/ub + pp as early as possible and the game will IAD at the first frame it's available provided you do it fast enough.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Im going to sound picky, especially as somebody who worked on what Im about to complain about, but the animations in the game dont read as well as they should.
For instance, I tracked one of the animations I did (c. MK for Painwheel) and in-game it reads nothing like what the animation is. The problem is that the motion is too complicated for the number of frames we used. The character winds up, twists, changes facial expression, all sort of cool things are happening but you dont see it, you just notice the end pose. I know some people complained that the game is too slow, but I dont think its slow enough.
I think it harms the game a bit, because a lot of times your brain doesn't register the motions as anything more than "crazy shit" not "beautiful animation"
In 3rd strike, for instance, they are very aware of how many frames they have and theyre used flawlessly, everything reads and uses the right number of frames to get there ; ie: a medium kick is pretty straightforward, a kick at medium speed so they leave that motion standard but pack in a lot of nice sprite detail and motion.
My suggestion is for the DLC characters to save the ultra complex motions for hard hits, grabs and supers, not the lows and mediums. Its kind of a waste of frames/motions and they dont read too well.
For instance, I tracked one of the animations I did (c. MK for Painwheel) and in-game it reads nothing like what the animation is. The problem is that the motion is too complicated for the number of frames we used. The character winds up, twists, changes facial expression, all sort of cool things are happening but you dont see it, you just notice the end pose. I know some people complained that the game is too slow, but I dont think its slow enough.
I think it harms the game a bit, because a lot of times your brain doesn't register the motions as anything more than "crazy shit" not "beautiful animation"
In 3rd strike, for instance, they are very aware of how many frames they have and theyre used flawlessly, everything reads and uses the right number of frames to get there ; ie: a medium kick is pretty straightforward, a kick at medium speed so they leave that motion standard but pack in a lot of nice sprite detail and motion.
My suggestion is for the DLC characters to save the ultra complex motions for hard hits, grabs and supers, not the lows and mediums. Its kind of a waste of frames/motions and they dont read too well.
best way to implement dlc. good shit ravi
hey ravi is there a way to put the dummy on block state? i cant seem to find it. only way to practice pressure strings
Hmm, I never thought of that, but your right, rolling updates and DLC all into one package seems more efficient. Paradise did that as well, two birds with one stone.
I see what you guys are going for and wish y'all the best of luck. It's risky, and that's why for a new indie dev I wouldn't have expected it, and thought maybe the publisher wouldn't let you guys. Thanks for your reply, btw.
If this works, shitstorm incoming on Capcom.
shaowebb
Member
What Ravidrath said. This game is the current record holder for most animated frames per character in a fighter I believe. I'm at a loss how that looks blurry to you, but hey if its not for you its not for you. Me personally, I gotta say this thing looks incredible. If you ever run out of backers for this series Reverge kickstarter the sequels or dlc for certain amounts of cast and I will throw my wallet at you to see more of these awesome animated characters.
Is this overall across the moveset or per move? Per move or like per second, etc. only really matters in the context of what he's talking about.
I kinda notice what he's talking about too, but I can't really describe it. It's not a big deal or even bothersome, though.
shaowebb
Member
I believe the frame count averages somewhere around 1400 frames of animation per character moveset. I think Peacock topped out at over 1600 frames herself, but I cant remember what the exact number was so dont quote me on that. God only knows what move in any fighter holds the record for most frames ever in a move though. I wouldn't be surprised if Skullgirls won that too though. Not really certain about how many would be played per second either. I suppose whatever the FPS rate is would determine that.
Any specifics you could lend us on the frame count average per super or normal Ravidrath?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
With regards to what God's Beard is talking about, I see what he's saying, I think.
If I had to critique the animation in the game, it's a little "jittery" and the in between frames that transition between a lot of attacks are not as liquid and flowing as ye old standard, 3rd Strike. Even though SG has more frames overall than 3rd Strike, 3S still seems to be the reference game for quality of animation. It's very disneylike, rubbery, and seems to impart clarity for exactly how a character is executing an attack. Darkstalkers is also up there in this area.
The animation in SG, now that I've seen it while playing the game and thus feeling it timed to my own actions, is very good. But, with lack of a professional animator's vocabulary, the best I can describe is that the logic of how a character's animation gets from A to B isn't always as elegant or clean as it seems like it could be.
This is an issue the affects ASW games as well. BlazBlue is not really that starved for animation frames. It has a respectable amount. But the quality of animation is inconsistent. Often creates confusion.
Perhaps a comparison would be KoFXIII. Its animation does have the solid, smooth, clear feeling of 3rd Strike thanks to how they rotoscoped it over 3D models. It's not as bouncy or organic, but it does have logical transitions from one frame to the next.
I don't want to sound like I'm down on Skullgirls. It is visually very impressive. But I find the animation of some characters creates more clarity than others.
For example, Cerebella is so far, for me, a lot cleaner in animation and reads better than others.
If I had to critique the animation in the game, it's a little "jittery" and the in between frames that transition between a lot of attacks are not as liquid and flowing as ye old standard, 3rd Strike. Even though SG has more frames overall than 3rd Strike, 3S still seems to be the reference game for quality of animation. It's very disneylike, rubbery, and seems to impart clarity for exactly how a character is executing an attack. Darkstalkers is also up there in this area.
The animation in SG, now that I've seen it while playing the game and thus feeling it timed to my own actions, is very good. But, with lack of a professional animator's vocabulary, the best I can describe is that the logic of how a character's animation gets from A to B isn't always as elegant or clean as it seems like it could be.
This is an issue the affects ASW games as well. BlazBlue is not really that starved for animation frames. It has a respectable amount. But the quality of animation is inconsistent. Often creates confusion.
Perhaps a comparison would be KoFXIII. Its animation does have the solid, smooth, clear feeling of 3rd Strike thanks to how they rotoscoped it over 3D models. It's not as bouncy or organic, but it does have logical transitions from one frame to the next.
I don't want to sound like I'm down on Skullgirls. It is visually very impressive. But I find the animation of some characters creates more clarity than others.
For example, Cerebella is so far, for me, a lot cleaner in animation and reads better than others.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
I have been alternating as Solobella and Ms. Forbella (or Ms. Fortune and Cerebella duo, your choice), and while one of ten times I can win against the final boss in normal, now it feels like it's a mixture of a SNK boss with an annoying puzzle. Still, it feels great to chain combos.
Also, no "I'll chisel your gravestone. Sleep well!" or any other SNK game references so far?
Also, no "I'll chisel your gravestone. Sleep well!" or any other SNK game references so far?
shaowebb
Member
Kind of sounds like tween frames that depict a motion as viewed from two points at the same time is what you're talking about. This is something done in animation thats hand drawn to give it a rubbery stretch in a really quick action. Gives it a snappiness that is fairly cartoony. With rotoscoped graphics things are generally done on "ones" or frame by frame with no tween cells showing a morphed combination of two positions.
The reasons tween poses exist is the human eye actually retains an action it sees longer than the action takes place. This is why we see blurs if something moves fast because our mind sees more than one position at once as it tries to retain those images. Tween poses simulate those moments.
If someone has poorer vision I guess its not unheard of for them to retain images slightly longer as well. Though that last bit is just a guess. Do you experience this same problem watching certain hand drawn animations? Nothing done in flash since it uses symbol tweens which may as well be rotoscopically clean.
gg's, dude. You were completely dominating me. Guess I'm gonna have to finally practice my BnB's now and stop relying on spam bullshit, ha ha.
Your wrist? pfft. My finger started bleeding in the middle of our games. That's why I took that break. Got a band-aid cleaned the bloody button on my stick.
Thanks, bro.
Haha, yeah but I like Parasoul and Fortune for their assists when backing up her zoning.Yeah it was pretty obvious.
I apologize for the disrespectful random supers, tryin' to use dem lag tactics!
I really need to find someone to play this game offline with because whenever I play games primarily online, I develop bad habits. :/
I keep trying to play Ms. Fortune the way I play C-Ryougi in Melty.
Airdash with jump fierce all day + staggering with rekkas.
I still haven't gotten the hang of doing combos online, the stuttering really makes anything that requires a slight amount of timing not even worth the effort when I can just combo into rekkas and cancel them into Cat Scratch Fever. -__-
Don't worry about 'em. I was doing the same to ZXScythe lol. Although the lag was to a bare minimum in our matches. Could barely feel it most of the time.
Same. But I know none of my friends will want to play the game just by the way it looks and I can't be dropping dough on Next Level right now. Forever alone (in Skullgirls).
BrLvgThrChmstry
Banned
If you're on PSN, I'd be more than happy to play and I'll even lose a round or two on purpose
Deal. PSN is memorycure -- anyone can add me, I'm always up for a challenge. And uh, if anyone has nice list of reliable combos/tps & tricks for painwheel... mind sharing?
DiscoShark
Banned
More Fortune Combos! (love this combo system)
Headless combo damage (4647 1v1)
HK j.MP j.MK -dash- j.MK QCB+LP -land dash forward- c.MP HK j.LK j.MP j.MK QCB+MK QCB+2K
From f.HP while headless, can also be used for headless or head combos after QCB+LK in a rekka chain :
(4439 1v1)- f.HP c.MP HK j.Lk j.MP j.MK - dash j.MK QCB+MP QCB+2K
(will update when finish ...) f.H c.MP LK -Dash- LP MP -land- c.MK Launch
Headless combo damage (4647 1v1)
HK j.MP j.MK -dash- j.MK QCB+LP -land dash forward- c.MP HK j.LK j.MP j.MK QCB+MK QCB+2K
From f.HP while headless, can also be used for headless or head combos after QCB+LK in a rekka chain :
(4439 1v1)- f.HP c.MP HK j.Lk j.MP j.MK - dash j.MK QCB+MP QCB+2K
(will update when finish ...) f.H c.MP LK -Dash- LP MP -land- c.MK Launch
Something I've noticed about the meta-game for solo players. Meter resets between rounds in 1v1. It is very difficult to reach a level 3 meter in a single round (both characters will be very low hp). This means anyone playing 1v1 will almost exclusively be spending meter on multiple level 1 supers or a single level 3 (and Valentine and Double will never have access to level 5 supers in 1v1). If you play solo in 1v2 or 1v3 you will have access to more meter. The more characters being played, the more meter there is to gain/spend.
tl;dr If you can make really great use of your level 3+ supers, you probably don't want to play 1v1.
tl;dr If you can make really great use of your level 3+ supers, you probably don't want to play 1v1.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I think Raging Spaniard summed it up best. The complexity of the animation doesn't suit the number of frames available, so it becomes more difficult to read than it should be. Especially with characters like double, I have no idea what's happening half the time. I just get glimpses of transformations before she jets off into something new.
Yup, sums up my initial thoughts as well. There's just a little too much going on in the attack animations.
toastyToast
Member
Yo Ravidrath, can you get Australia/New Zealand added as a region? Closest region is Japan and that's around 150ms ping
The way it works now, even if there are people nearby, they're getting paired up with people nowhere near them
The way it works now, even if there are people nearby, they're getting paired up with people nowhere near them
Master Milk
Member
Any word on exactly what it takes to get the last two colors? I've got Double's 9th, but I have no idea why. I'm pretty sure it's not her related trophy, though.
There's a lot of reasons moves may feel ambiguous. It's still unclear what moves are best, what should be baited etc. I look at a character like Double and I don't know what to expect because I am unfamiliar with the move set and the plan of attack my opponent will have. I know a character like Filia wants to rush down with her mobility and pressure but no one is certain what buttons provide the best pressure, they're almost exclusively looking for hit confirms at the moment. The animation will likely set in as the game grows.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I think thats really great and whats so awesome about a new fighting game IP/ Everything is fresh and everything is waiting to be discovered.
Last time we had that, fuck, maybe Rival Schools?
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Peacock just did The World.
yo, daaaaaamn
yo, daaaaaamn
shaowebb
Member
Oh okay, I get what you're saying now. Cool. I can respect that because I had the same complaint about Bayonetta. Fifteen million explosions and lasers going on and half the time I could never tell which one was supposed to be the one I was inside of.
BTW just picked up Valentine again and I gotta say the love for her air hyper keeps getting bigger. So many things can be done with it in combos. You can throw it in anywhere and keep going afterwards!
SolarPowered
Member
My bad, bro. I was exhausted from last night's study session and I found out that I had to stay awake in order to avoid falling asleep during my appointment with an Ophthalmologist(I was exhausted). I made it back and fell asleep after doing a few things. I still feel a bit tired, but I'm a million times more well rested than before.GG zxsythe, man this game runs so smooth!!! sucked we could do a ranbat tho
Good man
*thumps up*
I have not had any issues with the animations at all, but I'm not really well versed on the subject like you. I have to admit that this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the informative write up.
Ibuki holds the record with something between 1700 and 1800 frames. She has like sixteen winposes or some nonsense though.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Well, I do have to admit that on some level it's just nice to be in the year 2012 and be able to argue about 2D animation in a game.