Just imagine the backslash they'd get once they stop generating keys for public use.
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STEAM Announcements/Updates 2013 - Summer sale start date? No one knows, don't ask
- Thread starter Grief.exe
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Just imagine the backslash they'd get once they stop generating keys for public use.
spindoctor
Member
I didn't know that. Junior ban = perma, no matter what?
You're not as important to Valve as you think. A bunch of discount seeking forum dwelling people going to other sites to buy games is a laughably small loss compared to having the huge casual crowd who only know about buying from the steam store stop buying full priced games on it because Valve announces an upcoming sale event.
That ad hominem attack on me.
PM from him was pretty much the same.
I think you are overlooking several things. You have tunnel vision towards a small segment of the market and then extrapolating that out to cover the whole.
You aren't their primary target, you have already dumped hundreds of dollars into the Steam ecosystem, already bought in and have become intrinsically attached.
They are focusing on the new members. Let them get brought into the Valve client with the cheap deals elsewhere, much like you were brought in years ago.
They are looking for the millions of people who are new to Steam. The ones that are just starting and have yet to amass the massive amount of games that you have. That is their primary market. And the tens of millions of existing customers that have been apart of the client for a decade, and will continue to do so down the road.
They aren't losing money by you buying the game from elsewhere, bandwidth costs are minuscule at this point. They are forfeiting that 30% of the sale in order to get new customers and retain old customers. This process is netting Valve hundreds of thousands, if not millions of potential new customers. And retaining millions upon millions of loyal customers. This is the genius of Steamworks.
These are millions of new eyes that will be looking at the Summer sale discounts next week. That is millions of new potential revenue streams coming in over the years. And you are one of the 60 million or so retained customers that will be looking at the Steam sale next week.
Valve is loaded for back end revenue, not front end. They don't care how you buy in, but they are looking to have that revenue stream for as long as possible.
I have created the following, and decidedly awful, pictorial flow chart illustrating Valve's business model:
(This took me twice as long as it should have because I initially saved it as a JPG and didn't realise this until after I'd closed Fireworks.)
Such a perfect visualization.
I don't know if this is a serious argument or not.
The easy response is Steam holds the monopoly and is the clear market leader, by a ridiculous margin.
If Steam wanted to pull the rug out from Amazon, GMG, Indie developers, etc. They easily could.
They choose not to, because see above arguments.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
spindoctor
Member
I didn't know that. But then everyone who joins here knows to be extra careful while you're a junior so there's no excuse.
Coming back on topic, I just finished the Walking Dead DLC. Nice set of vignettes with a couple of interesting choices to be made. Although seeing how it all turned out, and knowing that it will influence season 2, I can't help but wonder if there are some choices that can be classified as being 'right' over others. As in, leaving out any moral ambiguity which is supposed to be the staple of the series.
Quickly tell whether they are a benefit to the community or not. If they get banned while they are a junior, then they likely are little to no benefit.
So he could use more ad hominem attacks against me then he did in his other post, as well as a wealth of other fallacies.
Valve wouldn't stop providing publishers with keys outright, of course, but if it were seeing a negative result, it stands to reason that changes would be made accordingly to the terms under which said keys are provided.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
And he dares to call you the kid. I guess it's pretty telling why he chickenshitted out and PM'd you a bunch of nonsense, yet still decided to show his ass in the thread.
Welcome to NeoGAF. Stay the hell out of OT until you lose your Junior status.
YianGaruga
Banned
Gun Monkey cards are currently extremely rare, so the game could pay for itself. Just sold a single card for 5€. Too bad I sold most of them last night for 1-2€.
When you're nearing 200 items, Valve will ask you to provide your SSN (if you're in the US) or proof of international residency (if you're outside of the US), after which you won't be bugged again unless you fall into the former category and have earned $20k from market transactions in the current year.
Wok
Member
From my experience of season 1, there is a story and there are personal choices, but there is no right or wrong. This is what makes the game so compelling: you don't try to guess the right answer, you just answer as you feel and experience the consequences of your choices. I hope this is the same for the DLC and the whole season 2.
I agree, it won't be all at once. If anything Valve would start taking a comission on all Steamworks games sold.
Maybe 5% to start.
I don't actually think that will happen though, Valve will keep growing their consumer base through Steamworks for now.
If you listen to Gabe speak, the writing is on the wall. The planned jump will be from Windows to Linux to ARM and smartphones.
I don't know how they will translate x86 to ARM, but maybe they will find a way one day.
Don't want to get too far into that for now since that is a massive discussion.
I appreciate the words and I actually have the same thoughts.
The PM isn't even worth posting, its pretty bad.
Even in regular threads I see people banned left and right.
NeoGAF is gearing up for the upcoming console war. If you are making ridiculous, fallacious, ignorant, and/or aggressive statements then banned.
And that's really the way it should be, NeoGAF is growing but we can still be a place for good discussion.
Wok
Member
The game called DARK is already released! Isn't it unusual for a game bound to be released on July 4 to be released before 5-6 pm UTC on that day?
The only releases between now and the 22nd of July (included) are Toki Tori 2+ and a DLC for Civ V.
You don't postpone a sale because of a DLC, you put the game (Civ V) on sale instead, and people see the DLC and might buy it although it is really expensive (27 €
. Concerning Toki Tori 2+, isn't it strange the game will only be discounted for beta-testers? For usual releases, everyone has a 10% discount.
Plus we are Thursday. There must be something going on tonight. Be ready to craft badges this evening and for the two following weeks!
The only releases between now and the 22nd of July (included) are Toki Tori 2+ and a DLC for Civ V.
You don't postpone a sale because of a DLC, you put the game (Civ V) on sale instead, and people see the DLC and might buy it although it is really expensive (27 €
. Concerning Toki Tori 2+, isn't it strange the game will only be discounted for beta-testers? For usual releases, everyone has a 10% discount.Plus we are Thursday. There must be something going on tonight. Be ready to craft badges this evening and for the two following weeks!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
That moment when you realise you selected "restart level" instead of "restart checkpoint"...
Or save instead of load.
You're trying to make your first run a perfect one? It's a lot easier to do no-kill when you're actually geared for it.That moment when you realise you selected "restart level" instead of "restart checkpoint"...
I loathe the PC games of yesteryear that have Quick Save and Quick Load right next to each other.
I'm saving my no-kill run for NG+, but doing everything else. My total in-game time is more around 7 or 8 hours as, since it'd been a while, I decided to resume my playthrough from the first level.
cicero
Member
Deciding to pay the $12 to buy Skulls of the Shogun because I assumed, rightly so, that fewer amounts of people would be paying near full price for the game and so it was likely that it would have fewer cards was a great decision. I made the full price of the game back and another $15+ speculating by buying up cards that were undercutting mine for certain cards that seemed to have fewer drops overall.
Thanks for the free game and the extra credit, Gaben!
Thanks for the free game and the extra credit, Gaben!
I H8 Memes
Member
Not much Valve can do about people spending money before the sales. It's obvious by now that these companies are somehow finding out exactly when the Steam sales will be then rushing to get out ahead. I'm sure it's much easier for GMG to throw up a simple background or for Amazon to do nothing special at all than it is for Valve to set up these complex pricing schedules and the meta games.
You should send me a copy so I can post it on the SomethingAwful forums gamers.txt thread. Plenty of GAF on there.
cicero
by the sweat of thy brow
shalt thou trade cards
and you will be happy
(Today, 02:58 PM)
I started trying to do everything, but found it was a lot easier to go back to levels with the equipment from later in the game. Like, some challenges are a lot easier when you get the assault rifle and Summon Batman skill.
I would always change it to F5 and F9 if possible.
And get their server infrastructure ready.
GMG and Amazon don't have to deal with things like friends list, trading, profiles, etc. on top of the already massive amount of people.
YianGaruga
Banned
Endless Space + new DLC for ~12 ~$12
http://store.steampowered.com/app/208140/
This looks like a pricing error to me.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/208140/
This looks like a pricing error to me.
I haven't hit any brick walls just yet (unsurprisingly), but if some secondary objectives later in the game do prove too frustrating I'll just revisit them later.
I can tell you that it involves space in some capacity and has cards!
Dog Problems
Banned
Yeah, I took advantage of it while it's there.
YianGaruga
Banned
The base game normally is 29.99 as well, I think.
It's a 4x game with a very sterile presentation. It's good I guess, but I couldn't get into it. Also cards.
scorpscarx
Member
That seems a lot for a 4x game that I might not ever play but I AM interested in.... tempting price error... I will probably wait for $7.50 for just the base whenever that happens.
cicero
Member
"stole" You have no idea what you are talking about.
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/valves-newell-predicts-shakeup-for-closed-game-consoles/
Valve isn't a public company and isn't required by law to serve the profit driven interests of the shareholding public. Clearly, from Gabe's own words, they have an agenda beyond mere profits alone. He designed the system to allow for third party sites, or the developers directly, to sell products WITHOUT Valve being concerned with taking a cut. I have seen nothing to suggest that this is considered no longer economically viable by Valve, have you?
Apparently I added it to my wishlist at some point, although I wonder why. Ah well, I already own BNW so gonna pass on this.
TekGryphon
Banned
Because he's been spamming my mailbox every single time he posts with a "LOOK AT MY POST!" message. I have never encountered anyone who does that in my 15 years of posting in online communities.
I should have made it clear in my post when I said "see my PM" that I wasn't initiating, I was just replying to his spam.
That said, I'm honestly not interested in listening to "losing sales to competitors is a GREAT strategy, especially when it's sales that were coming from users with high usage of our client and high monetization."
You guys can say I'm being mean to him all you want, I'm just laying it out. It's a silly argument, and his posting of silly Gaben pictures or spamming my mailbox with messages isn't changing a thing. When you're selling "one-and-done" products like games, being the last one to the market is a bad strategy. That's not insulting Valve. Valve's a great company, and I think 99% of the reason I'm getting so much flack on such an obvious point is that people think I'm besmirching the image of the "Almighty Valve". They can, and almost certain will, improve on this - I'm just pointing it out.
Blue Ninja
Member
I still want to play it, but I think I'm gonna wait until it drops to 10. Maybe I'll pick up Crysis 2 then, too, since I only have it for 360.
So many console games I'm gonna have to get rid of soon. I just ordered a PC copy of Prey off of Amazon, so I can redeem that shit on Steam and play through it again.
YianGaruga
Banned
Now you know how JaseC feels every single day.
Blue Ninja
Member
The only reason I sent those PMs to keep you involved in the discussion, my responses were sporadic and the thread moves quickly.
They were never meant as a, "LOOK AT MY POST." In fact, I didn't even say anything in the PM, just linked you to the comment in order to facilitate your involvement.
I enjoy a good discussion or well organized argument, that was my motivation. I did not find an informed discussion tonight unfortunately.
I don't think 2 PMs should count as spamming your inbox...
TekGryphon
Banned
Who said anything about Valve not being economically viable? Where is all of this ridiculous hyperbole coming from?
Let me break it down. And I mean that honestly, because I really feel like this is a very simple concept, but apparently I'm not explaining it well.
Customer A uses Steam.
Customer B does not use Steam.
Scenario A: Valve leads off quarterly sales by being the first to market with their sales.
Customer A buys the game on Steam, Customer B does not see the sale on Steam, buys the game on Amazon, GMG, or another, and becomes a Steam user.
User Gained: 1
Sales Made: 1
Scenario B: Valve is the last to market with a quarterly sale.
Customer A buys the game he wants when he sees it on a steep sale on another site. Customer Be does the same, and becomes a Steam user.
User Gained: 1
Sales Made: 0
Does that make things clearer? Or are we going to again ignore this very simple concept and launch into another hyperbole driven rebuttal about how I supposedly think the sky is falling, Gaben is dying, and Steam is no longer economically viable.
Try as other regions might, Modern Warfare 2 on Steam AU is still the undisputed king of ripoffs:
That sale image I plucked from GIS. It's the 2012 Summer Sale.
TekGryphon
Banned
Grief.exe, see my above post. It directly addresses your "concerns" that I'm not aware of Valve's strategy of driving people to its client.
I am perfectly aware of that, as I've tried to inform you every single step in this conversation.
The point I am making is that by Valve making a choice to be the last to market during sales, that they are losing potential revenues.
I make NO OTHER CLAIMS beyond that. I am NOT saying they don't gain Steam client users. I am NOT saying people quit Steam. I am NOT saying anything even remotely touching on any of those areas that you're trying to steer the conversation.
[EDIT] In response to your "I'm not finding an organized argument", no - you're not. Because you're trying to invent straw-men and argue with them.
I am perfectly aware of that, as I've tried to inform you every single step in this conversation.
The point I am making is that by Valve making a choice to be the last to market during sales, that they are losing potential revenues.
I make NO OTHER CLAIMS beyond that. I am NOT saying they don't gain Steam client users. I am NOT saying people quit Steam. I am NOT saying anything even remotely touching on any of those areas that you're trying to steer the conversation.
[EDIT] In response to your "I'm not finding an organized argument", no - you're not. Because you're trying to invent straw-men and argue with them.
I would argue its not as simple as that.
Valve can't operate like GMG or Amazon. They have to work around publishers, release schedules, special promotions (IE cards, achievements, metagames), server infrastructure, and various other considerations that the competitors don't have to worry about.
Release schedules probably being the most operative one in my opinion.
GMG, Amazon, etc don't have these things to worry about. They don't have to take into account release schedules, since they don't care. They don't have to worry about patching games and making sure their dedicated servers are ready for the onslaught of players.
It would be very difficult to be 'first to market' under the current scenario as the competitors aren't as bloated and can move more quickly.
It happens every year, the competitors know exactly when the Summer Sale will start through tertiary, and maybe even direct, evidence. They then undercut the date by a week or two. Happens like clockwork, and its easy to see, both, why it happens and how they do it.
EDIT: Another concern I thought about. GMG and Amazon have to work with maybe 50 publishers/developers on signing deals. Valve has to work with the entire library, not just the Steamworks games that the competitors sell. Probably hundreds, if not thousands of developers if you include their entire indie catalog as well.
EDIT2: I actually don't understand the point of your post. We understood the point you were trying to make before. Address some of the arguments we made about growing the consumer base.
That seemed to be your first actual argument, before was just ad hominem attacks or various other fallacies.
Don't see where I am misrepresenting your argument.
cicero
Member
Really? Come on now.
Clearly I was asking about the economic viability of Valve not taking a cut of third party sales that register on Steam, NOT Valve no longer being economically viable itself.
You accuse me of hyperbole when I never engaged in it, and then you sidestep the obvious direct comments by Gabe himself to try to "educate" me about something that doesn't even speak to what I posted about, ending with exaggerated hyperbole which is supposed to represent me or my opinions. They don't.
Do you have anything even remotely knowledgeable or informed to say in response to Gabe's direct comments about his views regarding third party sales and Valve's intentional choice to not charge a tax on them?
TekGryphon
Banned
No, it's not, and I never pretended it was. Customer A and Customer B are sample representatives of the market, nothing more.
As sample representatives, they don't represent ALL customers, only a portion. But if even a portion of potential sales are being lost, then that's a problem.
You claim that those losses are unavoidable, but your argument for that hinges upon us believing that you have insider information on what Steam has to do (vs what they can negotiate) in relation to publishers and insider information on what other retailers do not have to do in relation to publishers.
You are welcome to cite your credentials to me, but I personally don't believe you are an insider in this industry and can argue with authority on what the contractual relationships and negotiable terms are between Valve and its publishers.
I believe that the FEAR download includes the expansion packs.
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