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[Vampirolol]

Elizabeth from BI is both sweet and badass. I respect that, not the stereotype of masculine women.

 

[Arc Christelle]

#TeamBAYO

You will never get a female on Bayo's level and if you do...

Bayo did it first.

There are different types of women the same way there are different types of men. There is no "best" when it comes to representation.

Also this.

 

[Skelter]

Fuck no. Best woman in gaming is Kreia

 

[zeldablue]

There are different types of women the same way there are different types of men. There is no "best" when it comes to representation.

But there is such thing as stereotypes and subversions to stereotypes.

 

[FatboyTim]

Page 6 and no Faith?

 

[MormaPope]

So the regular grunts are still not as good as the bosses. And I haven't tried it, but I would assume that you could still hide in lockers. At least once.

It's silly to compare them. Bosses take like minutes to take down. The regular grunts take one shot to the head. They are grunts.

Oh and let's be nitpicky. On European extreme they won't shoot you. Because for that they have to spot you and then it's game over.

In the HD collection you have the option for gameovers not to occur when spotted.

http://youtu.be/25VKlqXKXNA?t=14s

Can't remember if that option existed in previous versions.

 

[Asbear]

I can't think of anyone who hasn't been mentioned already, but man I hop mega64 does "Best female character" for their "Game of The Year awards 2014"

 

[Farks!]

In terms of narrative? Maybe. In terms of gameplay/mechanics? Nope.

The greatest of all time:

First post nails it.

 

[YoungHav]

Page 6 and no Faith?

No trophies, no mention.

Annie Wersching

Thanks.

 

[RockmanWhore]

Don't read the following if you plan to play TLOU's DLC Left Behind DLC :

Ellie is great.

Spoiler

It's a shame that the devs felt forced to make her gay, that scene in the DLC was totally unnecessary and completely out of place, but it's 2014 you have to submit to the LGBT propaganda or you're a nazi.

 

[viveks86]

I just mean, show that women are nice and pretty and polite. And also show that they are ugly and mean and human just like everyone else.

Essentially, just round out your characters. Male characters need this as well. When women lack inner conflict or faults...they lack true character.

Positive sexism is fine, both men and women find it really good. But it makes all of us, both men and women, get really angry at women who can't or refuse to fall in line. Our perceptions are reactionary and raw when they have no reason to be. We simply haven't been conditioned to let women be human. We want them to stay the way they are and never deviate. We gain a lower tolerance for other types of women as we fixate them to be the perfect wife-material. And by fixating them to this task, we lose out on all the other ways women can be depicted.

For instance saying women are modest and kind means that stones and trash are thrown at women who don't fit the modest clothing and kind role. That means women are pretty and pure = unattractive women are allowed to be mocked openly and shamed regardless of context. That means women are nice and passive = assertive women are the devil and need to be put down. That means women are different from men = women aren't allowed a voice, job, education etc etc. It's just silly all around. but you get the gist. The more positive the stereotype the worst the hostile threats and punishments and limitations on women.

Good post. I agree.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Page 6 and no Faith?

How is she a good representation of women?

 

[Nugg]

Page 6 and no Faith?

It's a cool character with a cool design, but it's not a good representation of women. It's not a good representation of anything really. She has almost no narrative, no personality. She could be replaced by a man, or a monkey, it would still be the same game.

By the way, I like how the OP put women in quotes.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Alyx Vance.

Probably the coolest person, male or female, in any game, ever.

also:

It's a cool character with a cool design, but it's not a good representation of women. It's not a good representation of anything really. She has almost no narrative, no personality. She could be replaced by a man, or a monkey, it would still be the same game.

By the way, I like how the OP put women in quotes.

Hmmm.. isn't that a good thing though?

The dev didn't go out of their way to pander to any stereotypes, they just made a cool character (Faith is awesome), and she happens to be female.

Isn't that the point?

 

[MormaPope]

Ellie is great. It's a shame that the devs felt forced to make her gay, that scene in the DLC was totally unnecessary and completely out of place, but it's 2014 you have to submit to the LGBT propaganda or you're a nazi.

This reads like sarcasm, but I don't think it is.

Guess what, I knew lesbians in middle school and high school, not really a rare thing to be honest.

 

[Nugg]

Hmmm.. isn't that a good thing though?

The dev didn't go out of their way to pander to any stereotypes, they just made a cool character (Faith is awesome), and she happens to be female.

Isn't that the point?

I don't believe that a good representation of woman is just to put boobs on a male character. You should be able to write a character that is clearly a woman, that couldn't be replaced by a man, without falling into old stereotypes.

The OP's example is pretty good. Ellie couldn't be replaced by a boy. It wouldn't work as well.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Alys Brangwin, Phantasy Star IV, is still my favourite female character. She was created in 1993, so clearly, well-written female leads are nothing new. Alys isn't just tough, she's also a good leader, and she's witty and sassy. She is dressed sensibly for her job and isn't pandering, and she isn't a love interest or a DiD either.

Agrias from FFTactics is another great example. She's like a female version of Ned Stark, brave and honourable and loyal to a fault. She isn't sexualized at all either.

Offensive to who exactly?

Women and non-misogynistic men.

The B&B are actually a statement about how women are used in video games. Drebin's monologues are the nail in the coffin, where the monologues get told by someone else, because they have no voice of their own.

lol? They aren't a statement about how badly women are used in games... they are an example of it. The fact that you can take pictures of them while they pose sexily for you, whilst being horribly traumatized from their abuse as children, only makes it all the creepier.

Yeah either that or they just half-assed it. Like all other parts of MGS4. Even the boss-fights themselves weren't properly designed. That's kinda obvious when you compare them to the bosses from the previous games. I think Kojima made them female, because he wanted to have an excuse to get body scans of sexy hot female models (or he just did this for the typical gamer or even both). It was embarassing.

I mean let's assume it was done on purpose. Then why are all sorts of other optional dialogues missing? There are just a few optional codec calls in the game. Compare it with MGS3, where you could get optional codec calls for literally everything. Being in a box -> optional codec call. Eating one of the 50 animals in the game -> optional codec call. Doing some weird stuff -> optional codec call. Why is nanomachines the answer to everything? Because Kojima simply didn't give a shit. Which makes sense, because he wanted to end the series with MGS2 and then with MGS3. He didn't want to create another MGS game.

The B&Bs are laughable. First you fight a terrible boss fight. Then they go semi-nude and want to fuck you in some way including suggestive posing. And then finally you get a codec call with some laughable terrible background story by Drebin. It's exactly the same. All 4 times. It was awfully done.

Just take a look at "the boss" in MGS3. A superbly created character and boss. Eva was also well designed. And then look at MGS4. Yuk.

That logic of yours is like saying GTA IV was designed that badly on purpose. Shitty friends that call you every few minutes is supposed to get on your nerves. Yeah. Because Rockstar are geniuses. No, they are not. It was simply another badly designed game.

Good post. I know we don't often agree but you are 100% on the money here.

Is that supposed to represent what a female would do?

Why the hell not?

Ellie is a 14 year-old girl whose charm relies on cursing and acting much older than she really is. Yeah, it's cute and funny.....but I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

...What

As for the real "best" representations of women in gaming, I wouldn't really know since as a male I don't know what qualities females want to see in characters. But I would agree with some of the posts here that female characters like The Boss stand out because of how they are written and the history that comes with them, not just because of how often they curse or act like a badass. I would say Lara Croft from the new Tomb Raider is better representation of women than Tess or even Ellie in TLOU. In that game, Lara is pretty much an average, athletic, young female with great knowledge of how to survive in emergency situations, and I can see and believe that. She's nice to everyone in her crew and they respect her, so she comes off as very likeable.

lolno. Lara Croft is not remotely "average" (she's got more normal proportions this time but still looks like a supermodel). She also has zero personality and her character development is almost non-existent. She's really badly written, she's just kinda there, and not at all a good example of a female character to me. As a woman I prefer all the females in TLoU a million times over boring-as-fuck Lara.

 

[Augemitbutter]

the girl from Yakuza 2. more authentic than anything else i've played from any region. not a boring person, she's very well done. not a caricature like your favorite girl either.

sadly, nobody played that game beside me. you will never know.

love MGS and all. i'm a big fan. but there is nothing authentic about the boss.

She never gets mentioned in these discussions I assume because it's such a niche game and you don't meet her until the second one in the series, but without a doubt, the strongest, best representation of a woman I have ever seen in a game is Kaoru Sayama from Yakuza 2. Without question.

She is smarter and more determined than all of the men surrounding her, and has to be ten times tougher because nearly everyone she has to deal with is a womanizer, criminal, brutish mobster type. And she's not just the badass woman archetype either, she is tough, but also has weaknesses and nuance. Her dialog is extremely well-written and the romance between her and Kazuma that develops is some of the smartest, most human drama ever done in games. People think of Yakuza as just a beat em up, but there is more dialog and character building in the series than almost anything else in games.

holy shit, someone else has played that game! i mention her all the time when i get the chance.

 

[Seanspeed]

This reads like sarcasm, but I don't think it is.

Guess what, I knew lesbians in middle school and high school, not really a rare thing to be honest.

Certainly not rare, but seemed like a very forced inclusion to look 'progressive'. Not necessarily an awful thing, but I dunno - just felt see-through to me.

As for the question, I'd be curious to know what male video game characters people think would best 'represent' males? I'd say if you think about like that, the OP's question becomes a little more silly. This thread is basically about listing female characters who are the least stereotypical or are very empowered. Its an exercise in political correctness.

 

[viveks86]

Ellie is great.

Spoiler

It's a shame that the devs felt forced to make her gay, that scene in the DLC was totally unnecessary and completely out of place, but it's 2014 you have to submit to the LGBT propaganda or you're a nazi.

Holy spoilers batman! I didn't know this! Haven't played Left Behind yet. Thanks! :/

Also, your comment makes no sense. This isn't politics. You don't need to submit to any propaganda. It's pretty normal these days. If you think it's forced, that's fine. But leave it there.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

I don't believe that a good representation of woman is just to put boobs on a male character. You should be able to write a character that is clearly a woman, that couldn't be replaced by a man, without falling into old stereotypes.

The OP's example is pretty good. Ellie couldn't be replaced by a boy. It wouldn't work as well.

I hear what you're saying... but just because a character isn't inherently feminine in some way, doesn't make her any less of a woman.

Agree to disagree, etc

 

[BumblebeeCody]

How is she a good representation of women?

She isn't and neither are most of the other choices. I think it takes away from the character when you have to point that she is a female. I never played The Last of Us, Mirrors Edge or even Bayonetta thinking, "this is a good representation of a female character". They're good examples of good character design, not "how to be a female " because that's looking at them wrong.

Here's the thing, we very rarely get female characters that are powerful, smart, and independent. Thus, they tend to stand out over others and are considered to be Golden Standards.

Let's keep it real, the majority of females in video games are there as eyecandy, romance, or plot devices, and not much more.

But I'd easily put Ellie as a plot device. But again, what does Ellie have over a character like Rubi Malone or even Chun-li?

As opposed to what? DOA girls? Is the implication here that slutty looking women are not a respresentation of women? As if they don't exist?

Pretty much. If we start getting into the who "games are art" topic then game design is subjective and therefore cannot be considered wrong to design women as such.

 

[viveks86]

As for the question, I'd be curious to know what male video game characters people think would best 'represent' males? I'd say if you think about like that, the OP's question becomes a little more silly. This thread is basically about listing female characters who are the least stereotypical or are very empowered. Its an exercise in political correctness.

This shows little understanding of how women have traditionally been treated in games. The reason threads like this exist is because an earnest portrayal has been historically rare. It's like walking into a thread about gender equality and asking why nobody talks about men's rights. They don't because there isn't a widely prevalent issue around it.

 

[Shig]

Really surprised not to see more mention of Jade from Beyond Good and Evil. She's a very competent protagonist but not so over-idealized that she's above ever needing help, has a career arc that evolves through the story, runs a charitable organization on the side, and forges deep bonds and friendships with male characters without any forced romances.

 

[pupcoffee]

Ellie and Tess wouldn't crack the top 3.

I love Lucca in Chrono Trigger. Feminists should be impressed that her best moments don't involve men at all. This isn't why Lucca is in my top 3, I'm just saying.

 

[Seanspeed]

This shows little understanding for how women have traditionally been treated in games. The reason threads like this exist is because an earnest portrayal has been historically rare. It's like walking into a thread about gender equality and asking why nobody talks about men's rights. They don't because there isn't a widely prevalent issue around it.

I think you're missing my point completely. It was a thought exercise, not a complaint that men aren't being represented fairly in video games. The point is that its silly to think there's any 'best' representation of women, as if what a woman is is pre-defined and you can rank representations of them according to that definition.

And that what the obvious answers are are the most politically correct ones, cuz naming some girly girl is not politically correct, even though there are girls like that.

 

[Nugg]

I hear what you're saying... but just because a character isn't inherently feminine in some way, doesn't make her any less of a woman.

Agree to disagree, etc

I get what you say, and I actually agree with you. I think Alyx is a great example of what you're describing and I'm totally with you. I think I wasn't clear, my main gripe with Faith is not that her personality is too masculine or not feminine enough. The problem is that she has no personality at all. She's just a cool design.

 

[thesolidshark]

Women and non-misogynistic men.

If when I play Other M (and the rest of the franchise together), if I don't consider it offensive, will I become misogynistic?

 

[viveks86]

I think you're missing my point completely. It was a thought exercise, not a complaint that men aren't being represented fairly in video games. The point is that its silly to think there's any 'best' representation of women, as if what a woman is is pre-defined and you can rank representations of them according to that definition.

But that's not what the OP is thinking. It was specifically clarified that it isn't about ranking them, but simply an exercise in understanding what people think as great portrayals of female characters:

edit 5: the people getting mad about me saying "best"...take a chill pill. I ask for more suggestions too. "best" doesn't necessarily have to mean "only one". I guess I should I have said "some of the best" to appease all. In my recent memory, Naughty Dog made some of the best female characters to date with this game. obviously i haven't played every game out there... I want to know who you think are great representations and satisfy your opinions. man people are critical down to the tee.

These discussions invariably devolve into ranking, because that's what happens here in every goddamn thread. I'm glad that some us (you included) don't see it that way

 

[Sadist]

Samus, Jade...

And...

But she's just a girl! So? During the first season of the Walking Dead she already shows moments of maturity. In the beginning Lee is protective of her, she needed it. But after a while she gets stronger, makes hard decisions and grows up very fast. She is forced to do so, but she makes it work.

 

[Fattony12000]

 

[Marvel]

I love Tess and Ellie... but for me The Boss wins.

 

[Carl]

Tess is annoying as fuck. So yeah sure

 

[wsippel]

The only game where Samus gets any real characterization is Other M. And it's offensive, misogynistic garbage.

It's really not. At this point, I assume half the people bashing the game never played it and the other half misunderstood the story on purpose to fit the narrative - confirmation bias and all. That's not to say the story is good, because it's really not (and it's very Japanese), but calling it offensive and misogynistic is nonsense.

 

[EmptySpace]

why do women have to be represented as tough to be called worthwhile characters?

besides, there has been so many women characters that never felt the need to be pointed out as "hell yeah now these are the women of video games!"


alice from the alice games. no one ever said, yes women empowerment! to that character yet her character is more fleshed out than ellie or tess.

there's the female protagonists of longest journey and broken sword. jeanns d'arc from the psp game, etc.


so many female characters with varying degrees of characterisations, etc. but somehow ellie and tess get the trophy for best women representation. why? because they're tough and weild guns and do "manly" stuff and say "manly" words? i really don't get it.

 

[FatboyTim]

Hmmm.. isn't that a good thing though?

The dev didn't go out of their way to pander to any stereotypes, they just made a cool character (Faith is awesome), and she happens to be female.

Isn't that the point?

That was certainly my point.

Faith seems to be one of the more plausible female protagonists, because the writers didn't make compromises just because the character was female.

 

[Widge]

6 pages.

Assuming we have had FemShep and GlaDOS.

 

[BouncyFrag]

The characters were done well but they just felt like typical archetypes for the genre. You could switch out characters from The Walking Dead tv show and they would work just as well.

Trying to place the mantle of a single person as the best representative of a gender seems a bit much, but if I had to choose I'd pick Cass from Fallout: NV since I don't think she has been mentioned yet.

 

[Laughing Banana]

why do women have to be represented as tough to be called worthwhile characters?

besides, there has been so many women characters that never felt the need to be pointed out as "hell yeah now these are the women of video games!"


alice from the alice games. no one ever said, yes women empowerment! to that character yet her character is more fleshed out than ellie or tess.

there's the female protagonists of longest journey and broken sword. jeanns d'arc from the psp game, etc.


so many female characters with varying degrees of characterisations, etc. but somehow ellie and tess get the trophy for best women representation. why? because they're tough and weild guns and do "manly" stuff and say "manly" words? i really don't get it.

There *is* a certain tendency by many to create this bubble of sort that only "tough" female characters are allowed into considerations when talking about "best female characters" around, which is kind of unfortunate.

 

[doomquake]

No fem Shepard?

 

[Eolz]

Spoiler

in b4 people who never played the game

also i sure hope people don't confuse "mature" or "best presentation" with gruffs who never smile.

I like this post apart from some obvious ones.
Senran Kagura girls are sadly easily dismissed by most that never played the games due to a part of their anatomy but they're really stronger characters than you'd think.
Same thing for Bayo and Samus, I don't get why the fact they can have a specific outfit suddenly doesn't make them strong characters.


Also for contribution, Impa (various Zelda games) for her dedication and strength, the witches in Witcher (even if I don't think manipulating others is being a good role model), and OG Lara Croft > New LC (even if it was a really good game).

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

My mistake on the first bolded, then. As to the second bolded, what about Vamp, Ocelot, or Ray?

Ah, sorry. I meant female bosses. I can readily accept a character with past so horrifying that they has lost advanced mental faculties. I can understand if this character happens to be a woman. But four of them, all women, with no actual sane female enemies? I feel that Kojima's point, if any, is lost right there.

 

[Akainu]

How is Tess a good role model? Maybe you mean Maria?

 

[Laughing Banana]

No fem Shepard?

I like her.

Those who disagree usually cite the reason that she is basically just a male Shepard re-skinned, but I disagree. Those that play as Fem Shep from the beginning to the end and consider her as their main Shepard is, in my opinion, very valid to consider her as a true female character.

 

[viveks86]

There *is* a certain tendency by many to create this bubble of sort that only "tough" female characters are allowed into considerations when talking about "best female characters" around, which is kind of unfortunate.

We can agree on that. It's just shifting the stereotype from one aspect to another, which is a bit of a hypocrisy.

Which is why I liked casiopao's examples

Tx for the reply there.^_^

I had always had some problem and these thread finally cemented what my problem was.

Everytime, most gamer said about great female chara, it is always all about powerful, smart, independent character but the truth is, there also many other character which had their own charm.

Another example I can give here would be Issabeau from SMT4.

She is easily the exact opposite of Fiona here. She is smart, kind and also powerful as it is shown how she overpowered the other two males during the early story period however behind that powerful shell, she is actually really frail especially on mental department.

She is indecisive on choices. She rather choose to be follower rather than leader. She knows that each choices had their benefits and also their cons which makes to be unable to choose. However she also had a conviction that if us(M.C) would choose the way which is not what she think is correct, she will stand in front of us as foes.

This is another type character I feel to many undeserved hate was given to. She is simply like many of us human. Unable to choose which is the better choice. She is strong for sure. But it is only in front. In behind she need protection and guidance.

As long as one character is given chance to grow, I believe any character had their charm and there is no need for the best kind of woman thing.

And EmptySpace as well:

why do women have to be represented as tough to be called worthwhile characters?

besides, there has been so many women characters that never felt the need to be pointed out as "hell yeah now these are the women of video games!"


alice from the alice games. no one ever said, yes women empowerment! to that character yet her character is more fleshed out than ellie or tess.

there's the female protagonists of longest journey and broken sword. jeanns d'arc from the psp game, etc.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I like her.

Those who disagree usually cite the reason that she is basically just a male Shepard re-skinned, but I disagree. Those that play as Fem Shep from the beginning to the end and consider her as their main Shepard is, in my opinion, very valid to consider her as a true female character.

I think of both them as separate, distinct characters. I usually play as male Shep but when I gave her a go, it was a significant change in the game for me.

 

[Raven Prime]

Seems like a lot of these strong female characters really like their headbands.

 

[Despera]

Heather Mason is still the best there is.

Yes, Heather from Silent Hill 3 is a good one, and I believe an even better example than Tess and Ellie. Thought that was a pretty realistic depiction of a teenager going through all that shit.

There are many other good examples as well and I see a number of the more iconic ones mentioned here already.

I think even non-realistic character depictions can be really good as well, as long as people playing these games like and enjoy that character, whether male or female.

 

[Gustav]

Elaine Marley from Monkey Island is the best female character ever. Especially considering how long ago Monkey Island 1 and 2 came out.

 

[T.O.P]

Dead Rising 3 - Rhonda