-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Kazekage1981
Member
Some additional thoughts:
8K:
I highly doubt they will push for 8K gaming even though there are 8K UHDTV's, my hope is it will have the latest HDMI 2.1b spec (or higher) with full 48 Gbps bandwidth. A push for 4K (reconstruction/checkerboard/FSR3.5 or whatever) *with* raytracing and 120fps would be amazing as well. Perhaps 8K for media content/streaming. I don't have a PS5 or Xbox Series X, does it support Dolby Atmos or HDR10+?
They could do 8k/30fps or 8k/60fps on small indie games or upscale PS4/PS4Pro games...
8K:
I highly doubt they will push for 8K gaming even though there are 8K UHDTV's, my hope is it will have the latest HDMI 2.1b spec (or higher) with full 48 Gbps bandwidth. A push for 4K (reconstruction/checkerboard/FSR3.5 or whatever) *with* raytracing and 120fps would be amazing as well. Perhaps 8K for media content/streaming. I don't have a PS5 or Xbox Series X, does it support Dolby Atmos or HDR10+?
They could do 8k/30fps or 8k/60fps on small indie games or upscale PS4/PS4Pro games...
Look at the post I made a few posts up lol
They will
ChiefDada
Member
I fully expect cross-gen and current gen games alike to get a second/third life with tangible improvements to resolution/framerate/raytracing and in some cases a combination of all three. I myself look forward to playing Returnal at 4k60+
playsaves3
Banned
why are we using last gen rules when circumstance isnt the same last gen isnt increasing the price with the pro model like this gen for one
diffusionx
Gold Member
i have no idea what you are talking about but the pro model is, umm, a pro model, it's not a new console. First goal is compatibility and not imposing major difficulties on devs to support it but offering a higher ceiling of graphics performance.
Now for all we know that could change, but nobody should be surprised it's the same CPU.
Perrott
Member
Great to have some more clarity on the whole clock regression debate, putting it to rest.
We can now take to the bank the fact that PS5 Pro will have a minimum of 17.12TFs in raw power or up to 34.24TFs when running optimized RDNA 3 code.
Very exciting.
playsaves3
Banned
what is funny is if they had went zen 3 originally I dont think the pro would need a cpu upgrade the fact they went zen 2 demands a cpu upgrade however
playsaves3
Banned
that made sense for going from jaguar to say zen 1 not from zen 2 to say zen 5
diffusionx
Gold Member
ok, tell Mark Cerny that and maybe he will consider. I am sure you know more about this process, from design, to manufacturing, to developing for it, than he does.
Last edited:
playsaves3
Banned
in this case the ps5 pro gpu level would be held back by the zen 2 we are using to fully utilize it needs at least zen 4 but preferably zen 5
AGRacing
Member
When PS5 was discussed… clocks due to power balancing was handled at a machine level and pre-determined by the machine.
I have an RDNA3 GPU. It’s not unusual for the lower core count parts to have higher clocks than the higher core count parts. “PS5 Pro” could probably achieve 2.23 ghz with less than half the cores active but needs to settle at 2.0 with all clocks active. In fact it is likely only a power consumption limit is what forces 2.0 ghz on 56 cores. Totally aligns with the behaviour of current RDNA3 parts in PCs.
Also…. The ability to do a custom FSR3 type solution combined with more than double the ray tracing performance would probably translate to a worthy upgrade especially for those with 120hz capable TVs.
I think that while 4K HDR was the big marketing push with PS4 Pro… the big marketing push where would be high frame rate & better looking RT.
I have an RDNA3 GPU. It’s not unusual for the lower core count parts to have higher clocks than the higher core count parts. “PS5 Pro” could probably achieve 2.23 ghz with less than half the cores active but needs to settle at 2.0 with all clocks active. In fact it is likely only a power consumption limit is what forces 2.0 ghz on 56 cores. Totally aligns with the behaviour of current RDNA3 parts in PCs.
Also…. The ability to do a custom FSR3 type solution combined with more than double the ray tracing performance would probably translate to a worthy upgrade especially for those with 120hz capable TVs.
I think that while 4K HDR was the big marketing push with PS4 Pro… the big marketing push where would be high frame rate & better looking RT.
Last edited:
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Easy Fix! Series S is discontinued after 2024. Xbox Series X is now the base model, XBX+ Is the top end tier with 2x total performance from the XSX When I say 2x I mean double the ram, GPU performance, and CPU performance. Every 4-5 years a new generation is released and the others are fazed out after 10 years. This allows a base X, a Pro X, and Next Gen System would Be in rotation.
Series X drops to $299, XSX+ $449.99, and next gen release $599.99
Gamepass yearly for $149.99
Work with Nvidia on Nextgen system tools that can upscale and improve games to higher resolution and frame rates without special patching needed with AMD's help.
This is the roadmap Id take if I was Microsoft.
Series X drops to $299, XSX+ $449.99, and next gen release $599.99
Gamepass yearly for $149.99
Work with Nvidia on Nextgen system tools that can upscale and improve games to higher resolution and frame rates without special patching needed with AMD's help.
This is the roadmap Id take if I was Microsoft.
ChiefDada
Member
Which still wouldn't make it stronger than the 7900 XT, let alone the XTX because their baseline is far higher.
That "leak" says:
- 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
Yes, more than 2x RDNA2 RT performance. You're dead wrong to use 2070 as proxy for base PS5 because of VRAM bottleneck. 6700xt is far better fit. Based on your graph, using 7900xt as a baseline, in 1440p RT workloads:
1. 6700 xt = 48 fps; PS5 Pro: 48fps x 2 (RT uplift)= 96 fps minimum
2. 7900 xt = 100fps
3. 7900 xtx = 111fps
And this isn't even considering RDNA 3+ raster uplift and console performance optimization.
So I continue to maintain it will beat RDNA 3 flagship.
Topher
Identifies as young
That's not an "easy fix". Microsoft would be ridiculed even beyond what they were with launch Xbox One if they abandoned Xbox Series S customers. Hell.....there might even be a class action lawsuit.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
AGRacing
Member
No it doesn’t. I’m saying with BC core count it could hypothetically do higher clocks required for BC. In games with a patch it would use all cores at the lower clock (but more power).
James Sawyer Ford
Member
You’re talking about disabling cores and running in OG mode?
I guess that’s possible
Though I would hope there’s a minor clock increase since we are getting a more advanced node
Last edited:
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Need to take into account the impact of RT though. It could lessen the load of those TFlops. Also, with enhanced ML AI scaling techniques, it should result in better efficiency, not to mention RDNA3 architecture gains.
I fail to believe Sony would be dumb enough to release a Pro console that wasn't a meaningful upgrade from baseline, especially with Cerny architecting it. He's proven that TFlops aren't telling the entire picture.
Last edited:
{insert code here}
Member
This thing is gonna be like $700 and its gonna sell out day one.
playsaves3
Banned
the pro isnt going to be less than it will be $600, $650, or $700 and you will have to buy the disc drive
Crayon
Member
Yah that's it. Talking about the specs is fun but what does it actually do.
Does it play GTA6 1440/60/RT++? Or does it just bump the resolution up? Once we know that, the specs don't matter much.
playsaves3
Banned
could persona 5 get an 8k or 120fps update? (it supports both on pc)
Mr.Phoenix
Member
That never happened. And this was and still remains the most confusing thing about any PS5pro assumption. We know, that no leak ever talked about disabling and active cores before. So we do not know if that 60 considers disabled and active cores.
All talk around that here, talking about 56CU, 54CU... 64CU....etc, is just straight-up speculation. And naturally, like all speculation threads, the details become clearer and more accurate the closer we get to launch (duh), so with the release of the 7000 series AMD GPUs, we inadvertently get a clearer picture of what is or could be possible with the PS5pro. And the same would apply to pretty much every CPU processor AMD releases between the last and next 6 months.
twilo99
Member
I think it will be meaningful enough especially if developers take full advantage.. the current consoles are so underpowered that even a small amount of improvement will seem like a big deal.
ChiefDada
Member
*Sigh*
14 teraflops of RDNA 3 with dedicated RT intersect, traversal, and ML upscaling hardware is far more powerful than a 7700xt. Maybe if I use the DF example to translate RT performance to teraflops:
Using this method, you can roughly estimate PS5 Pro to be ~30 TF RDNA 2 with RT workload vs 10TF RDNA 2 for base PS5.
But I think it's a silly and convoluted way to look at it. I really thought we were over this TF stuff...
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
A game literally just did, Avatar. The rt gi is incredible. Open world next gen game with a true rt gi implementation (unlike Witcher 3 and sw survivor which seem like gimped rt gi solutions) AND it actually has good image quality.
Crayon
Member
Yah if that starts being a regular thing I'm in. A gpu would do as well but the market is still pretty ass.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
*Sigh*
14 teraflops of RDNA 3 with dedicated RT intersect, traversal, and ML upscaling hardware is far more powerful than a 7700xt. Maybe if I use the DF example to translate RT performance to teraflops:
Using this method, you can roughly estimate PS5 Pro to be ~30 TF RDNA 2 with RT workload vs 10TF RDNA 2 for base PS5.
But I think it's a silly and convoluted way to look at it. I really thought we were over this TF stuff...
You introduced this convoluted way of looking at and now complaining about that.bbNo, it's 14 TF with much superior upscaling and ray tracing. No need to lean on "rapid packed math". Which has always been a marketing buzzword. This entire thread seems like you're trying to create a narrative for the upgrade, while getting worked up over people thinking it sounds a little underwhelming on paper.
Audiophile
Gold Member
What I can't grasp with the possible Zen 2 CPU choice in the Pro is if you're already going through the trouble of building an entirely new APU die and doing it on a new node. Why would you go through the trouble of porting Zen 2 over to that new die design and node, when you can opt for a later generation while you're at it, use a similar relative portion of the APU die, have little subsequent extra cost over the course of the die's production lifecycle and get a tonne more performance..?
Whichever way you cut it, they're building a new and distinct chip. Just using Zen 2 again seems like an abritrary workload for small gains when there's a disproportionately large performance gain to be had in choosing Zen4.
I can't see backwards compatibility being an issue as PS5's Zen 2 runs 99.7% of PS4's Jaguar-based titles without an issue. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to get base PS5/Zen 2 games running in a PS5 Pro environment with a Zen 4.
Sony also would have been well-aware of Zen4/4c and had enough time to implement it in the design. For eg. Zen 2 only launched commercially 5mths ahead of PS5, Zen4/4c would have launched commercially ~26/17mths ahead of PS5 Pro (assuming Nov '24). These are just relative points, but if Sony had enough time to finalise Zen2 in their PS5 design years ahead, then they've had more than enough to get Zen4/4c implemented.
For Zen 2 I don't see the angle for financial reasons, I don't see it for die size/complexity reasons, nor for time/taping-out reasons or for BC reasons.
Zen4c just seems like the perfect option.
I honestly think a lot of these rumours are based in the idea that "Zen 2 is old, so it'd be cheaper to just reuse it because they'll wanna save money" - not taking into account that they're engineering a distinct, new chip anyway (even if they use and port over Zen 2 IP) and cost is already being sunk; cost that would be better sunk into something much better being implemented. It's not like they can just slice off the CPU/Zen2 portion of the PS5 APU and dump it on a new APU for a Pro.
Whichever way you cut it, they're building a new and distinct chip. Just using Zen 2 again seems like an abritrary workload for small gains when there's a disproportionately large performance gain to be had in choosing Zen4.
I can't see backwards compatibility being an issue as PS5's Zen 2 runs 99.7% of PS4's Jaguar-based titles without an issue. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to get base PS5/Zen 2 games running in a PS5 Pro environment with a Zen 4.
Sony also would have been well-aware of Zen4/4c and had enough time to implement it in the design. For eg. Zen 2 only launched commercially 5mths ahead of PS5, Zen4/4c would have launched commercially ~26/17mths ahead of PS5 Pro (assuming Nov '24). These are just relative points, but if Sony had enough time to finalise Zen2 in their PS5 design years ahead, then they've had more than enough to get Zen4/4c implemented.
For Zen 2 I don't see the angle for financial reasons, I don't see it for die size/complexity reasons, nor for time/taping-out reasons or for BC reasons.
Zen4c just seems like the perfect option.
I honestly think a lot of these rumours are based in the idea that "Zen 2 is old, so it'd be cheaper to just reuse it because they'll wanna save money" - not taking into account that they're engineering a distinct, new chip anyway (even if they use and port over Zen 2 IP) and cost is already being sunk; cost that would be better sunk into something much better being implemented. It's not like they can just slice off the CPU/Zen2 portion of the PS5 APU and dump it on a new APU for a Pro.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Member
I didn't. Want to try again?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I think it's supposed to be a 1440p machine.Archaic CPU aside, if this ends up being in the 7700xt realm in terms of GPU it would be more in line with a 1440p machine than a 4k one.. at least according AMD's own slides, but then again maybe the secret sauce will prop it up..
Things to consider, while AMD would be thinking 1440p @120fps+, for Sony, it only needs to natively run at 1440p@60fps and then get reconstructed up to 4K. And that would be its quality mode Then ts performance mode would be the internal native rez dropped to 1080p and w2ith reconstruction be running at around 100+ fps.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
The issue is that it’s a very heavy reliance on developers with the tech only supported on 1/3 (1/4 if you count PS5 Vanilla) consoles, PC aside. It’s a big ask especially from smaller studios.
So yeah, you will have Ubi, CDPR, EA (will be a disaster), Take 2 and a few others who will do well. And of course Sony 1st party. The rest… who the hell knows.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Perhaps, but the last thing I would want as the intern optimising for the Pro console would be to have to rewrite some parts that stress the common GPU units outside of the CU’s which would be the same in number but running at a lower clock compared to before (think Geometry Engine for one).
Even if those units were to have enhanced features, now the dev either has a perfect BC mode or needs to optimise and balance the work of they want a PS5 Pro patch. It would be embarrassing if the PS5 Pro version of some games is actually worse off in any aspect compared to the base version.
I think that they will try to keep GPU clocks online with PS5 at the bottom end, possibly raising them a bit.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Except it is not. Quite a fair bit of games math can be done at FP16 precision and even without double rate processing it helps lower registers usage (more threads in flight so higher chance of utilising the GPU to its fullest and cover any high latency operation and maybe even dual issue more).
If you can process FP16 items at twice the rate (wider vectors so more operations performed at once… you can fit 2x the FP16 lanes where you could fit the FP32 ones) even better. All modern GPUs offer double FP16 data rate.
Last edited:
Physiognomonics
Member
It's not. Devs have being using it starting with PS4 Pro (2017) and currently it is used extensively in many many games and engines.
But that 14Tf leak is bullshit. GPU overclock will be determined by TSMC node and comparable to what's done on Desktop GPU sides, so from 7nm to 4/5 nm we should get about a 25-30% overclock, up to around 2.9ghz. That would be my guess. I am expecting around 20TF (and 40TF dual issue).
Last edited:
Caio
Member
The diffusion of dev kits, as expected by Sony itself, will almost certainly lead to a leak of information on the complete technical specifications of the new hardware. Shortly after the publication of Henderson's message, Kepler revealed that PS5 PRO will be much more powerful than the leaked specifications, revealing for example that the console will have 60 CUs (instead of 56 as initially leaked) with a boost clock of 2.5 Ghz while the GPU should boast a power of 19.2 Teraflops.
TheRedRiders
Member
In which tweet did he say the boost clock will be 2.5 GHz?
PeteBull
Member
Actual next gen games will force cpu to work so hard even at 30fps we wont see 60fps modes( at best maybe target 60 with dips to 40fps in any cpu heavy scenario, and there will be plenty, many npcs on screen, vehicles/chases/tons of shit blowing up, big draw distance views just to name a few).
The desktop RDNA3 GPUs received barely any clock speed boost on 5nm. Close to PS5 clock speeds are more likely.
Last edited:
PeteBull
Member
Depends on the game, on crossgen games/not cpu/gpu heavy ones- 4sure, on anything that remotely looks next gen- impossiburu
PeteBull
Member
It sure does, if u got pc u can check it for example while playing cp2077, here i got 3080ti(roughly 2x ps5 power) but old trusty 8700k, oced, thats cpu from end of 2017, and no rt can hold stable 60 no matter what, if i turn on rt, and even reduce res/put in dlss just to lessen strain on the gpu- i get dips into low 50s in cpu heavy scenarios while gpu utilisation % drops, aka cpu bottleneck.