A couple more Kepler tweets to keep this thread active:
They willSome additional thoughts:
8K:
I highly doubt they will push for 8K gaming even though there are 8K UHDTV's, my hope is it will have the latest HDMI 2.1b spec (or higher) with full 48 Gbps bandwidth. A push for 4K (reconstruction/checkerboard/FSR3.5 or whatever) *with* raytracing and 120fps would be amazing as well. Perhaps 8K for media content/streaming. I don't have a PS5 or Xbox Series X, does it support Dolby Atmos or HDR10+?
They could do 8k/30fps or 8k/60fps on small indie games or upscale PS4/PS4Pro games...
I really think the Pro reception will come down to what type of benefits are seen in GTA VI, Wolverine, and the eventual TLOU III.
why are we using last gen rules when circumstance isnt the same last gen isnt increasing the price with the pro model like this gen for oneif cpu upgrade didnt happen with xbox one x it's not happening with this. so just deal with it or play on pc.
i have no idea what you are talking about but the pro model is, umm, a pro model, it's not a new console. First goal is compatibility and not imposing major difficulties on devs to support it but offering a higher ceiling of graphics performance.why are we using last gen rules when circumstance isnt the same last gen isnt increasing the price with the pro model like this gen for one
what is funny is if they had went zen 3 originally I dont think the pro would need a cpu upgrade the fact they went zen 2 demands a cpu upgrade howeverZen 3 was released by AMD in November 2020 when the PS5 came out. PS5 required quite a few customisation ( CPU core was quite customised, FPU very much so ) to ensure optimal power consumption and helping the console reach its dynamic clock frequency target as a result too.
It is not the biggest and most important element of console APU designs, you want to finalise it sooner rather than later and remove potential last minute problems (you take a bit more risks with GPU’s).
that made sense for going from jaguar to say zen 1 not from zen 2 to say zen 5i have no idea what you are talking about but the pro model is, umm, a pro model, it's not a new console. First goal is compatibility and not imposing major difficulties on devs to support it but offering a higher ceiling of graphics performance.
Now for all we know that could change, but nobody should be surprised it's the same CPU.
ok, tell Mark Cerny that and maybe he will consider. I am sure you know more about this process, from design, to manufacturing, to developing for it, than he does.that made sense for going from jaguar to say zen 1 not from zen 2 to say zen 5
in this case the ps5 pro gpu level would be held back by the zen 2 we are using to fully utilize it needs at least zen 4 but preferably zen 5Where did you even get that it would "smash" the 7900 XT in RT workloads? Not only has the 7900 XT far more than 2x the PS5's performance in RT workload, it's also over 2x faster in rasterization. The one big thing this PS5 Pro has over the PS4 Pro is a much stronger CPU that can actually make use of the GPU horsepower, unlike the Pro which was still massively held back by its CPU.
Those leaks don't suggest anything of the sort and the flagship is the 7900 XTX, not the 7900 XT. Furthermore, the vast majority of workloads will be hybrid with the bulk being raster where it would still be massively outclassed by either chip.
Anyway, this is likely bullshit and I hope it is because those specs are kind of weak. Not that I expected much better because the PS5 was already a pretty solid machine so it was harder to make massive leaps over it, especially considering that architectural improvements are about half as fast as they were a decade ago.
Which still wouldn't make it stronger than the 7900 XT, let alone the XTX because their baseline is far higher.
That "leak" says:
- 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
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Easy Fix! Series S is discontinued after 2024. Xbox Series X is now the base model, XBX+ Is the top end tier with 2x total performance from the XSX When I say 2x I mean double the ram, GPU performance, and CPU performance. Every 4-5 years a new generation is released and the others are fazed out after 10 years. This allows a base X, a Pro X, and Next Gen System would Be in rotation.
Series X drops to $299, XSX+ $449.99, and next gen release $599.99
Gamepass yearly for $149.99
Work with Nvidia on Nextgen system tools that can upscale and improve games to higher resolution and frame rates without special patching needed with AMD's help.
This is the roadmap Id take if I was Microsoft.
I have an RDNA3 GPU. It’s not unusual for the lower core count parts to have higher clocks than the higher core count parts. It could probably achieve 2.23 ghz with less than half the cores active but needs to settle at 2.0 with all clocks active. Totally aligns with the behaviour of current RDNA3 parts in PCs.
No it doesn’t. I’m saying with BC core count it could hypothetically do higher clocks required for BC. In games with a patch it would use all cores at the lower clock (but more power).This breaks BC
It will need to exhibit same clock behavior as baseline PS5
No it doesn’t. I’m saying with BC core count it could hypothetically do higher clocks required for BC. In games with a patch it would use all cores at the lower clock (but more power).
14 Teraflops is less powerful then a RX 7700XT (with around 17 Teraflops).
But its understandable if you add points like power consumption and cost.
the pro isnt going to be less than it will be $600, $650, or $700 and you will have to buy the disc drivePS5 Pro might be the most consequential video game system released since the PlayStation 2, if Sony gets things right with it.
Difficult balance between performance and price.
People want double the power of the PS5 but only for an additional 100 dollars from the current base price.
That's a very tall order. I think the PS4 Pro had a pretty lukewarm reaction, though it had more than double the power of the original PS4 at the same price as the launch version.
It'll be interesting to see what price the PS5 Pro launches at and what impact that has on the PS5 SE and PS5 DE. By the end of next year, we may see a PS5 Digital as cheap as $350.
I think there are a couple more probable scenarios
Scenario A - High end, no price cut, and a larger introductory price for the PS5 PRO
PS5 PRO 600 PS5 500 PS5 Digital Edition 450
Scenario B - Following the trend of PS4
PS5 PRO 500 PS5 400 PS5 Digital Edition 350
Why I think this is consequential is because Nintendo may very well have to compete with PS5 Digital to some extent on price, especially if there is a goal to garner more of the market share that comes with 3rd party titles. The Nintendo Switch (non-OLED version) currently costs $300 dollars. Will the Switch 2 come out for $300 dollars and if it does what kind of performance can they deliver for a hybrid console at that price? They may need to take considerably small margins on the Switch 2, if not even sell it at a loss. The cheapest Steam Deck is 350 and it's not very powerful.
If the Switch 2 clocks in under the power of a PS4 Pro, it's going to struggle to compete with the PS5, particularly the digital in straight-up competition. That's again assuming that the PS5 Digital ends up discounted next year.
Microsoft will also have a big decision on their hands. If the PS5 Pro enters for 500 and the base model drops to 400, they can't continue selling the XSX for 500. The XSX is already being priced at 350-400 at various retailers. It's currently 400 on Amazon right now. That creates another question for Microsoft, which is what to do with the Series S.
The Carbon Black XSS is currently 350 and you can get the base model for 250 and it's struggling to sell at that price point (in fact you can get the XSS Starter pack for 240 and that comes with 3 months of GamePass). You almost have to discontinue selling the base model and then sell the Carbon Black for 250-300 and just hope for the best.
Given that the PS5 Pro rumored leaks seem a bit underwhelming, it would suggest that Sony's strategy is probably to do Scenario B, which would also explain the price increase for the PS5 Digital this year, because otherwise, people would expect the PS5 Digital to drop to 300 dollars, everything being equal.
Going a step further if we look at PS5 Digital at 300 and price drop of the PSVR2, currently 550, I think we could see this drop to 450 in Q1 bundled with RE4. That brings it lower than the MetaQuest 3.
I then think you are potentially looking at prices for PS5 Pro at 500 and PSVR2 eventually at 350, which could be very compelling for people interested in VR.
I really think the Pro reception will come down to what type of benefits are seen in GTA VI, Wolverine, and the eventual TLOU III.
could persona 5 get an 8k or 120fps update? (it supports both on pc)I really don't think that is the case.
We just saw CDPR release an update to Witcher 3 on PS5, two years after the launch of the system.
I think you'll see Sony work with 3rd parties on key games to boost performance and then most new games will have it.
Square Enix
Final Fantasy 7 Remake
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
Final Fantasy 16
FromSoftware
Elden Ring
Armored Core 6
Larian
Baldur's Gate
CDPR
Cyberpunk 2077
Witcher 3
Rockstar
GTA5
Capcom
Resident Evil 4
Ubi Soft
Assassin's Creed Mirage and Valhalla
Rainbow Six Siege
Epic Games
Fortnite
Psyonix
Rocket League
EA
Jedi Survivor
Mihoyo
Genshin Impact
WB
Hogwarts Legacy
"Bungie"
Destiny 2
That never happened. And this was and still remains the most confusing thing about any PS5pro assumption. We know, that no leak ever talked about disabling and active cores before. So we do not know if that 60 considers disabled and active cores.Claiming that the chip would be 56 activated cu's. Tom said it was 60 cus. We'll know soon enough.
Need to take into account the impact of RT though. It could lessen the load of those TFlops. Also, with enhanced ML AI scaling techniques, it should result in better efficiency, not to mention RDNA3 architecture gains.
I fail to believe Sony would be dumb enough to release a Pro console that wasn't a meaningful upgrade from baseline, especially with Cerny architecting it. He's proven that TFlops aren't telling the entire picture.
14 Teraflops is less powerful then a RX 7700XT (with around 17 Teraflops).
But its understandable if you add points like power consumption and cost.
Doesn't tell me much about what the results are going to be. The 4-pro did not seems very impressive so I passed. Games were higher resolution. Yay.
This is supposed to be more focused on raytracing. Enhanced effects like that would be more my speed except raytracing is not all that. One day sure, but it's been all the buzz for a long time now and there's not much to show for it yet. Yeah, cyberpunk, I know. Raytracing pretty much means cyberpunk, that's the problem.
Right now I get to choose between 60fps or somewhat better shadows. But soon i can have both for just another $500. idk bout all that.
But maybe the rt floodgates will finally bust open and games start coming out with rt implementations like cyberpunk . Then I would take a good look at a pro.
A game literally just did, Avatar. The rt gi is incredible. Open world next gen game with a true rt gi implementation (unlike Witcher 3 and sw survivor which seem like gimped rt gi solutions) AND it actually has good image quality.
*Sigh*
14 teraflops of RDNA 3 with dedicated RT intersect, traversal, and ML upscaling hardware is far more powerful than a 7700xt. Maybe if I use the DF example to translate RT performance to teraflops:
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Using this method, you can roughly estimate PS5 Pro to be ~30 TF RDNA 2 with RT workload vs 10TF RDNA 2 for base PS5.
But I think it's a silly and convoluted way to look at it. I really thought we were over this TF stuff...
You introduced this convoluted way of looking at and now complaining about that.bbNo, it's 14 TF with much superior upscaling and ray tracing. No need to lean on "rapid packed math". Which has always been a marketing buzzword. This entire thread seems like you're trying to create a narrative for the upgrade, while getting worked up over people thinking it sounds a little underwhelming on paper.
I think it's supposed to be a 1440p machine.
The issue is that it’s a very heavy reliance on developers with the tech only supported on 1/3 (1/4 if you count PS5 Vanilla) consoles, PC aside. It’s a big ask especially from smaller studios.Yah if that starts being a regular thing I'm in. A gpu would do as well but the market is still pretty ass.
Perhaps, but the last thing I would want as the intern optimising for the Pro console would be to have to rewrite some parts that stress the common GPU units outside of the CU’s which would be the same in number but running at a lower clock compared to before (think Geometry Engine for one).You’re talking about disabling cores and running in OG mode?
I guess that’s possible
Though I would hope there’s a minor clock increase since we are getting a more advanced node
Except it is not. Quite a fair bit of games math can be done at FP16 precision and even without double rate processing it helps lower registers usage (more threads in flight so higher chance of utilising the GPU to its fullest and cover any high latency operation and maybe even dual issue more).No need to lean on "rapid packed math". Which has always been a marketing buzzword.
It's not. Devs have being using it starting with PS4 Pro (2017) and currently it is used extensively in many many games and engines.You introduced this convoluted way of looking at and now complaining about that.bbNo, it's 14 TF with much superior upscaling and ray tracing. No need to lean on "rapid packed math". Which has always been a marketing buzzword. This entire thread seems like you're trying to create a narrative for the upgrade, while getting worked up over people thinking it sounds a little underwhelming on paper.
In which tweet did he say the boost clock will be 2.5 GHz?The diffusion of dev kits, as expected by Sony itself, will almost certainly lead to a leak of information on the complete technical specifications of the new hardware. Shortly after the publication of Henderson's message, Kepler revealed that PS5 PRO will be much more powerful than the leaked specifications, revealing for example that the console will have 60 CUs (instead of 56 as initially leaked) with a boost clock of 2.5 Ghz while the GPU should boast a power of 19.2 Teraflops.
Actual next gen games will force cpu to work so hard even at 30fps we wont see 60fps modes( at best maybe target 60 with dips to 40fps in any cpu heavy scenario, and there will be plenty, many npcs on screen, vehicles/chases/tons of shit blowing up, big draw distance views just to name a few).Only 60% faster in raster. That is not enough to run the current quality mode at 60fps. 40fps is more realistic target. 2x RT performance could be true based on rumors. Processor and memory upgrade was expected, some 25% boost. So overall believable though disappointing.
The desktop RDNA3 GPUs received barely any clock speed boost on 5nm. Close to PS5 clock speeds are more likely.But that 14Tf leak is bullshit. GPU overclock will be determined by TSMC node and comparable to what's done on Desktop GPU sides, so from 7nm to 4/5 nm we should get about a 25-30% overclock, up to around 2.9ghz. That would be my guess. I am expecting around 20TF (and 40TF dual issue).
Depends on the game, on crossgen games/not cpu/gpu heavy ones- 4sure, on anything that remotely looks next gen- impossiburuNice! Maybe they can get decent RT @ 1440p60 at least.
It sure does, if u got pc u can check it for example while playing cp2077, here i got 3080ti(roughly 2x ps5 power) but old trusty 8700k, oced, thats cpu from end of 2017, and no rt can hold stable 60 no matter what, if i turn on rt, and even reduce res/put in dlss just to lessen strain on the gpu- i get dips into low 50s in cpu heavy scenarios while gpu utilisation % drops, aka cpu bottleneck.Don’t think CPU has anything to do with ray tracing