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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)

Would you upgrade from your current PS5?

  • For sure

    Votes: 377 41.0%
  • Probably

    Votes: 131 14.2%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 127 13.8%
  • Unlikely

    Votes: 140 15.2%
  • Not a chance

    Votes: 145 15.8%

  • Total voters
    920

Caio

Member
It's not. Devs have being using it starting with PS4 Pro (2017) and currently it is used extensively in many many games and engines.

But that 14Tf leak is bullshit. GPU overclock will be determined by TSMC node and comparable to what's done on Desktop GPU sides, so from 7nm to 4/5 nm we should get about a 25-30% overclock, up to around 2.9ghz. That would be my guess. I am expecting around 20TF (and 40TF dual issue).
The 14Tf leak is total bullshit, the GPU should be clocked at least 2.5 Ghzh.
 

PeteBull

Member
14 Teraflops is less powerful then a RX 7700XT (with around 17 Teraflops).

But its understandable if you add points like power consumption and cost.
14tf meaning comparable to 10.2tf of base ps5, amd's 7000 series got inflated teraflops numbers(same as nvidias 3000 and 400 series btw), u can see it clearly if u compare actual performance and tflops of 6800xt
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6800-xt.c3694 20,74 tflops, vs 14% weaker 7700xt- 35,17tflops.

U did right thing to divide 7700xt tflops by 2, thats roughly what its performance is compared to ps5/xsx and previous amd cards, not 35tflops like in specs.
Its bit more tricky tho for super accurate comparision, we can see it if we look at 7800xt, inflated tflops too, 37,32tflops, barely more than 7700xt, its 5% faster on avg vs older 6800xt which has 20,74tflops, and 21% faster from 7700xt, all in all, dividing tflops number by 2 in 7800xt's case isnt giving actual performance numbers, since it should be roughly at 21-22 "old/ps5 base/amd's 6000 series cards" tflops, not at 37,32/2=18,66 old tflops.

TLDR, just like Mike Cerny said its not strickly about tflops numbers, but performance in actual games, if ps5pr0 is downclocked/downvolted 7800xt on smaller node, it wont behave like 7700xt, but closer to 7800xt with maybe 10% less performance, hence leaked/estimated performance of +60 or even 70% in raster vs ps5, not +40% like tflop numbers converted to old tflops would suggest.
 
The desktop RDNA3 GPUs received barely any clock speed boost on 5nm. Close to PS5 clock speeds are more likely.
7800Xt is boosted up to 2.4ghz with 18TF on 5nm node. Remember that PS5 already uses 6600xt boost clocks at 7nm (2.23ghz). The final clocks will depend of node used, either 5nm or 4nm. Like PS5 I am expecting they are going to clock it as high as they can. It's not like PS4 Pro where they were limited by old power consumptions paradigms without liquid metal cooling.
 
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Loxus

Member
if cpu upgrade didnt happen with xbox one x it's not happening with this. so just deal with it or play on pc.
Zen1 released in 2017.
In order for the XB1X to use Zen1, it would have to release in 2018 the earliest.

Seeing that XB1X released in 2017, it means that chip was finalized in 2016 in order to create enough to ship, etc. And Zen1 wasn't ready or worth the wait.
 

FireFly

Member
7800Xt is boosted up to 2.4ghz with 18TF on 5nm node. Remember that PS5 already uses 6600xt boost clocks at 7nm (2.23ghz). The final clocks will depend of node used, either 5nm or 4nm. Like PS5 I am expecting they are going to clock it as high as they can. It's not like PS4 Pro where they were limited by old power consumptions paradigms without liquid metal cooling.
The 6600 XT boosts to 2.55 GHz on PC (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-radeon-rx-6600-xt-gaming-x/35.html), while consuming ~160W. While the 7800 XT boosts to 2.4 GHz at ~250W. You would need a 28% improvement in performance/watt to match PC clocks at 180W, while TSMC N4P is currently listed at 22%. So higher than 2.4 GHz seems out of reach without architectural improvements.
 
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ripjoel

Member
zen2 8c16t 4.2ghz single 8c ccx
tempest engine 2 (AI upscaling and offloading tasks from cpu)
54cu 2.692 mhz @18.6tflops
infinity fabric gen 3
16gb 256-bit gddr6 18gbps @576 gb/s
(ai data compression gives effective bandwidth about 1tb/s)
2gb ddr4
32mb unified dynamic cache
1tb
tsmc n4p or samsung sf4x

realistically, how much would this cost?
 
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Dr.D00p

Gold Member
Time to remind people that a 7800XT class GPU in a console will get performance out of it equal to the class above it, when compared to PC cards.

The highly optimised, custom SDKs and sheer number of incredibly talented people in games development for consoles means you simply can't use a desktop 7800XT card as a comparison for performance levels.
 

RavionUHD

Member
Time to remind people that a 7800XT class GPU in a console will get performance out of it equal to the class above it, when compared to PC cards.

The highly optimised, custom SDKs and sheer number of incredibly talented people in games development for consoles means you simply can't use a desktop 7800XT card as a comparison for performance levels.
14 Teraflops RDNA3 is not equal to a 7800XT, even a 7700XT has 17.5 Teraflops.

Also the PS5 10 Teraflops APU performs just like a RX 6650XT (which has 10.8 Teraflops).
 

Zathalus

Member
RDNA3 is not reaching anything above 2.5Ghz in a console. Maybe RDNA4 will, but it is going to require some impressive architecture changes. Which is possible, RDNA1->RDNA2 had quite the performance per watt leap.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
PS4 pro was a huge leap last gen, but this gen I don’t feel like ps5 really needs a pro model. It certainly doesn’t look like it would be a large leap in performance like ps4 pro was.
Was it though? It took games from 2M pixels (1080p) to 4M pixels (just above 144p) and used CBR to make the difference. I get we are all impressed that we now got "4K" but it didn't really do much.

This I also one of those diminishing returns things, we can say stuff like the PS4pro had a GPU with a whopping 2.3x more power. And forget that that translated to just 2.4TF more power. But look at the PS5 pro as underwhelming going from 10TF to ~20TF because that's just a 2x boost vs 2.3x, and forget that with a base of 10TF, that translates to 10TF more power. Vs 2.4TF more with the PS4pro.
Sony is prepared for the real specs to be outed in the coming weeks, as dev kits for PS5 Pro are going out to third party teams.
Stay tuned :D
I never get these guys, they did it right with the PS5. Have a tech reveal just before you send out dev kits cause you know it will leak. If they are sending out PS5pro dev kits, they should announce the damn thing already. It's just gonna leak anyways.
 
PS4 pro was a huge leap last gen, but this gen I don’t feel like ps5 really needs a pro model. It certainly doesn’t look like it would be a large leap in performance like ps4 pro was.
I was really hoping that the PS4 Pro was a one off due to how underpowered the PS4 was at launch and how resolution standards changed pretty quick from 1080p to 4k early in that generation.

I really don't like the idea of Pro consoles.
 
As expected this leak sounds like bullshit and the clock downgrade was plain ridiculous, Kepler just shat on that particular point:


Mentioned this already... Given the variable clock rate, devs can't assume anything about the GPU clock speed.

I imagine it would be able to hit 2.23, just not in the power target Sony is going after. With all the CUs enabled. Sony could do something like have only 36 enabled if there happens to be a game that somehow breaks.
 

Midn1ght

Member
I never get these guys, they did it right with the PS5. Have a tech reveal just before you send out dev kits cause you know it will leak. If they are sending out PS5pro dev kits, they should announce the damn thing already. It's just gonna leak anyways.
They just released the "Slim" console. Gotta sell these damn things.
We're also in the middle of holiday season so yeah, not gonna announce the Pro just yet.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
I was really hoping that the PS4 Pro was a one off due to how underpowered the PS4 was at launch and how resolution standards changed pretty quick from 1080p to 4k early in that generation.

I really don't like the idea of Pro consoles.
But why though?

I don't think I would ever understand this kinda reasoning.

Why does the idea of a Pro console unsettle you, when games are still ultimately made for the base console first and foremost?

To me, I do not understand why it took them till the PS4 generation to start making pro consoles, as far as I am concerned, the same way a node shrink could allow for a slim console, is the same way it should allow for a pro console.
 
D

Deleted member 848825

Unconfirmed Member
Some additional thoughts:

8K:
I highly doubt they will push for 8K gaming even though there are 8K UHDTV's, my hope is it will have the latest HDMI 2.1b spec (or higher) with full 48 Gbps bandwidth. A push for 4K (reconstruction/checkerboard/FSR3.5 or whatever) *with* raytracing and 120fps would be amazing as well. Perhaps 8K for media content/streaming. I don't have a PS5 or Xbox Series X, does it support Dolby Atmos or HDR10+?

They could do 8k/30fps or 8k/60fps on small indie games or upscale PS4/PS4Pro games...
So I have an 8k Sony Master Series TV. And whilst you benefit from an upscaled improved 4k, increased pixel density panel. For actual 8k content, its very limited in only allowing SDR native 8k. I truly dont believe that 8k is going to be any real world focus at all for the PS5 Pro. Not only would they need to improve their own TV's first. It would be so niche, it would only be a marketing ploy.
 
I never get these guys, they did it right with the PS5. Have a tech reveal just before you send out dev kits cause you know it will leak. If they are sending out PS5pro dev kits, they should announce the damn thing already. It's just gonna leak anyways.
They won't announce anything in December, right after releasing the slim model and right during the Christmas period.

This is probably officially announced in September next year with a November release tbh.
 

daninthemix

Member
*Sigh*

14 teraflops of RDNA 3 with dedicated RT intersect, traversal, and ML upscaling hardware is far more powerful than a 7700xt. Maybe if I use the DF example to translate RT performance to teraflops:

mGU9Wr7.png


Using this method, you can roughly estimate PS5 Pro to be ~30 TF RDNA 2 with RT workload vs 10TF RDNA 2 for base PS5.

But I think it's a silly and convoluted way to look at it. I really thought we were over this TF stuff...
Out of interest does this logic also work when applied to Nvidia hardware? For example, the 4090 is 82 TFLOPS but also has class-leading RT and ML hardware.
 

Elios83

Member
Mentioned this already... Given the variable clock rate, devs can't assume anything about the GPU clock speed.

I imagine it would be able to hit 2.23, just not in the power target Sony is going after. With all the CUs enabled. Sony could do something like have only 36 enabled if there happens to be a game that somehow breaks.

It's an approach that doesn't make any sense with the design philosophy behind PS5 which is fast and narrow and it has no sense to change that for the Pro console.
They essentially would be switching from fast and narrow for BC reasons to slow and wide in Pro mode.
It makes no design sense. Those specs are bullshit, it's not even clear which reputation the leaker has.
Kepler instead is a well known insider.
2.23GHz is the minimum for the GPU, but it's realistic for it be clocked slightly higher at 2.5GHz.
 
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While this talk is always pretty exciting, 14 TF console though with vastly improved ray tracing isnt going to be that much of an improvement. Hopefully they can keep the cost of the pro down to about the £450 mark and the slim drop to £350.
It seems like its going to be PS5 graphics with better ray tracing and 1440p native res
 

ErRor88

Member
I would be really surprised if that was the problem when the One S was also different than the original Xbox One. For me it was either them wanting to have a way better console than the Pro, and willing to wait for that to become possible, or being taken by surprise and deciding that having a strong answer, even if late, would be better than a worse console that would be out closer to the PS4 Pro.

The problem that Xbox have is that no matter what it will get difficult for them. From a marketing standpoint their offer is a premium product, and a entry level one. Having another one would mean changing a lot of their messaging and would be fascinating to see. If there is a Series S, X and a U for ultimate, how to market them all well and be consistent when those consoles are fated to hinder each other?

At the same time, yes if there is a PS5 Pro but no Xbox equivalent their S/X strategy will become a bigger problem. I think that is why we have people here like @HeisenbergFX4 that say that we will have a early next gen from them. They will IMHO compete on price in the meantime, and that will bring another kind of problem to them as I think that the Switch 2 will really hurt the Series S market potential if Nintendo is smart.

To compete with the PS5 Pro. Xbox could increase the GHz of the Series consoles to the PS5 level and bring it closer to the Pro speed. They have enough thermal headroom via the vapor chamber and real-world data. This could net them about 14 to 16 TF give or take the increase.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
They won't announce anything in December, right after releasing the slim model and right during the Christmas period.

This is probably officially announced in September next year with a November release tbh.
Well, I don't know... I am just saying they should do some sort of tech talk or whatever about it. I don't see it affecting sales.

They should know fully well that once third parties get hold of that thing, it's going to leak. They lose control of the narrative that way and the PR boost.
 
To compete with the PS5 Pro. Xbox could increase the GHz of the Series consoles to the PS5 level and bring it closer to the Pro speed. They have enough thermal headroom via the vapor chamber and real-world data. This could net them about 14 to 16 TF give or take the increase.
They could, and I think that they did it for the One S. One game was better on it compared to the original Xbox One as a result. So a Xbox Series X slim could do it easily. If you are talking of the Series X already out, it would have been really stupid of Xbox to not do this at launch. I think that they can reasonably add a little power to it, yes. But +2 TF? I will let other more knowlegable people answer that, but it is not so easy. And even if by miracle it works, the PS5 Pro would still be more about better RT and upscaling techniques. And that can't be upgraded the same way on Xbox Series X. For me, it was a real deception when we got the specs. A 14 TF+ with 20 GB of RAM would have been a real monster and it could have made the Series X better than the PS5. But Xbox wanted the S...
 

AGRacing

Member
You’re talking about disabling cores and running in OG mode?

I guess that’s possible

Though I would hope there’s a minor clock increase since we are getting a more advanced node
You possibly would but in a different way. Perhaps they could leverage the architecture based gains clock for clock. In the case of games with RT and an unlocked frame rate mode I’m sure it would even in “bc mode”.

But I also have a feeling , since they’ve done this once already, that patching games would be a much more simple process. Games seemed developed with headroom in mind in many cases.
 

Perrott

Member
So I have an 8k Sony Master Series TV. And whilst you benefit from an upscaled improved 4k, increased pixel density panel. For actual 8k content, its very limited in only allowing SDR native 8k. I truly dont believe that 8k is going to be any real world focus at all for the PS5 Pro. Not only would they need to improve their own TV's first. It would be so niche, it would only be a marketing ploy.
The idea of taking an 8K image (rendered at a native resolution above 2160p and then upscaled to 4320p) and downscaling it to 4K for an image quality improvement might be an interesting way for those titles that don't have extensive raytracing implementations to tackle their 30fps quality modes, as the 60fps performance modes are expected to become native or near native 4K now.
 

ErRor88

Member
They could, and I think that they did it for the One S. One game was better on it compared to the original Xbox One as a result. So a Xbox Series X slim could do it easily. If you are talking of the Series X already out, it would have been really stupid of Xbox to not do this at launch. I think that they can reasonably add a little power to it, yes. But +2 TF? I will let other more knowlegable people answer that, but it is not so easy. And even if by miracle it works, the PS5 Pro would still be more about better RT and upscaling techniques. And that can't be upgraded the same way on Xbox Series X. For me, it was a real deception when we got the specs. A 14 TF+ with 20 GB of RAM would have been a real monster and it could have made the Series X better than the PS5. But Xbox wanted the S...
I believe it's known that the Series consoles are underclocked when compared to other RDNA 2 cards. Also, It only needs to compete and pull the line closer to PS5 Pro. IMO, it will give Xbox more time for a new Gen/device, and not fragment their base any further, while giving more for money they already spent.

FYI, Now that Xbox has all these studios, they're in a Nintendo-like zone, and will probably play the middle till the next-gen.
 
D

Deleted member 848825

Unconfirmed Member
The idea of taking an 8K image (rendered at a native resolution above 2160p and then upscaled to 4320p) and downscaling it to 4K for an image quality improvement might be an interesting way for those titles that don't have extensive raytracing implementations to tackle their 30fps quality modes, as the 60fps performance modes are expected to become native or near native 4K now.
Yeah, I dont know how much benefit native 8k super sampling would make these days, when we think about having the likes of FSR and DLSS, then throwing in whatever the new Sony solution might bring. Personally, my expectations aren't such that the PS5 Pro's performance will be so advanced as to be dabbling with 8k at all anyway, even at 30fps.
 
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Interfectum

Member
"don't chase sony, chase steam instead" doesn't sound like a good strategy tbh.
The whole idea of Xbox is to give people more ways to play their games. They have a console (two in fact), they have PC, they have streaming. A handheld makes more sense over a slightly more powerful console.
 
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onQ123

Member
Sony trying to make 8k a thing in 2024 would be one of the most fuck-stupid decisions I could imagine. Most people don't have 4k screens that are any better than the '4k in name' $300 pieces from Amazon or Walmart.
I remember when you all thought 4k was stupid



 
The whole idea of Xbox is to give people more ways to play their games. They have a console (two in fact), they have PC, they have streaming. A handheld makes more sense over a slightly more powerful console.
People can already play their game pass library on the steam deck if they want or the ASUS ROG Ally, infact xbox has been updating the xbox app to work better on smaller screens. Yes they could release their own branded device I suppose.

I have mentioned before that microsoft could up the clocks on the Series X on the CPU and GPU and if they change all the RAM chips to be 2Gb that would give a pretty decent boost to the console and shouldn't require too much work. Might not be as powerful as the PS5 Pro but would be close enough not to matter. How far the design can be pushed would depend on the thermals.
If the PS5 pro is close to the spec released here you will probably find if difficult to pick between a screen shot of a PS5 vs the Pro, of course it will will face offs on digital foundry though when you start too look closely.
Still I find it hard to believe a pro is gong to come out. Happy to be wrong though as I would definitely be interested.
 
People can already play their game pass library on the steam deck if they want or the ASUS ROG Ally, infact xbox has been updating the xbox app to work better on smaller screens. Yes they could release their own branded device I suppose.

I have mentioned before that microsoft could up the clocks on the Series X on the CPU and GPU and if they change all the RAM chips to be 2Gb that would give a pretty decent boost to the console and shouldn't require too much work. Might not be as powerful as the PS5 Pro but would be close enough not to matter. How far the design can be pushed would depend on the thermals.
If the PS5 pro is close to the spec released here you will probably find if difficult to pick between a screen shot of a PS5 vs the Pro, of course it will will face offs on digital foundry though when you start too look closely.
Still I find it hard to believe a pro is gong to come out. Happy to be wrong though as I would definitely be interested.
You don't polish a turd. The problem of XSX is the fact that they pushed CU number by SA on a GPU architecture designed for quite lower amount of CUs by SA which was good for a server selling compute, but not optimal for gaming. The whole cache pipeline is not designed for so much compute. A slight overclock won't change that. And even for XB1 it was actually interesting to overclock because the esram benefitted from it, that won't be the case here.

And they won't increase ram as that would be quite expensive with not much improvements except in a few games. Might as well design a whole new APU having RDNA4 RT in the first place. This is where all the main improvements (thanks to hardware BHT traversal) will come from on PS5 Pro anyways.
 
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I believe it's known that the Series consoles are underclocked when compared to other RDNA 2 cards. Also, It only needs to compete and pull the line closer to PS5 Pro. IMO, it will give Xbox more time for a new Gen/device, and not fragment their base any further, while giving more for money they already spent.

FYI, Now that Xbox has all these studios, they're in a Nintendo-like zone, and will probably play the middle till the next-gen.
It does seems that the Series consoles are undercloked, yes. The why is less certain. The question is, why not do it sooner? The consoles got months to be tested between the beginning of production and november 2020. And we are soon to be in 2024. If this was possible, it would have made more sense to be done earlier. Like for Starfield or Halo Infinite launch. The closed we got was either Sony or Nintendo allowing devs to use more of the console, as the part reserved for the OS was less because of optimisations, or new hardware that had more power, like the New 3DS. As for Xbox being like Nintendo, I am not so sure. Pokemon is big. So is Mario. Under those two monsters, you have IP like Zelda and Metroid, that can easily sell millions of games. Xbox is not yet there. And unlike Nintendo, a lot of their new studios are putting their games on Playstation. See how Starfield was hurt by not being on PS5? Microsoft calculated a 10 millions of games of sales from Starfield and Indiana Jones could be expected. So here too, they are not like Nintendo, who is really all in on their consoles, for the better and for the worse.
 
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