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[KageMaru]

On closer inspection of Nintendo Land it looks like a lot of the environment shadows are baked. Ergo, not so impressive. Look forward to seeing the final build.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you inspecting this game? Are you just watching a bunch of Youtube vids? I've only seen what little was shown in the press conferences and such.

I'm hoping someone can really point me to a video where it shown something taxing in the game.

 

[EatChildren]

If you don't mind me asking, where are you inspecting this game? Are you just watching a bunch of Youtube vids? I've only seen what little was shown in the press conferences and such.

I'm hoping someone can really point me to a video where it shown something taxing in the game.

Nowhere different from where everybody else is. So yeah, YouTube vids, trailers, screenies, and so on. I don't think there's anything in Nintendo Land I'd call taxing. It looks nice and clean, but I put that down to Nintendo's trademark style over any feat of processing.

 

[KojiKnight]

It was mentioned in a patent and in a Linkedin profile. Pretty sure the silicon for both ends comes from MegaChips. No matter how efficient an ARM core might be at any given task, specialized logic would be even more efficient. Lag is a non issue as well. Who says the data has to go through the ARM?

Too true I guess, I don't know processor design well enough to comment beyond what I already have so I'll leave it at that.

 

[plagiarize]

The same can be said that the next Xbox and PS4 will benefit from coming in with similarly powered hardware and benefiting from a generations worth of experience? No, that can't be said.

that wasn't the claim i was responding to. let me requote what i was responding to:

Like I already said, when PS3 and 360 were released, devs had not much experience with multicore cpus and gpus with shader support. They had to develop completely new engines, and adapt to a new workflow. With the Wii U, we won't see such dramatic changes, because there is no exotic or revolutionary hardware inside. But that also means that we probably won't see such big improvements like we have seen on PS3 / Xbox 360 launch titles vs. games now.

now tell me where it says anything about POWER. it's all about architecture. PS4 and Xbox Loop are going to have multicore cpus with shader support.

try to pay attention.

 

[big_erk]

It's Sigmund, that loveable Sea Monster from the 70's....yes I'm that old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au3DBVo1EqM

I remember Sigmund the Sea Monster, along with all of the other cheesy live action shows they made for kids back then.

 

[KageMaru]

Nowhere different from where everybody else is. So yeah, YouTube vids, trailers, screenies, and so on. I don't think there's anything in Nintendo Land I'd call taxing. It looks nice and clean, but I put that down to Nintendo's trademark style over any feat of processing.

Ok cool thanks, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything specifically.

 

[big_erk]

But you CAN figure out how much the price of parts are, determine how much each component is, extrapolate assembly and shipping costs and say "Yeah, that's how much it's parts are worth".

If they're only making $10-20 in profit, you know they are just trying to get them out there. If that number starts trending into $30-50 of profit on the controller, that's when things start to look a bit iffy. If they are charging more than double what the parts are worth, you can tell you're just being ripped off... R&D costs or not.

Yeah, because the millions of dollars in R&D don't have to be recouped somehow.

 

[KojiKnight]

Yeah, because the millions of dollars in R&D don't have to be recouped somehow.

Acting as if Nintendo isn't planning on selling several dozen million consoles and stand alone controllers at a profit on day 1.

 

[Fourth Storm]

It was mentioned in a patent and in a Linkedin profile. Pretty sure the silicon for both ends comes from MegaChips. No matter how efficient an ARM core might be at any given task, specialized logic would be even more efficient. Lag is a non issue as well. Who says the data has to go through the ARM?

You don't happen to have those links, do you? I've been researching this some myself and am highly intrigued. Never thought more than one ARM core would make it in...unless one was the DSP.

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Acting as if Nintendo isn't planning on selling several dozen million consoles and stand alone controllers at a profit on day 1.

Since when is it wrong for a company to try and make money?

 

[big_erk]

Acting as if Nintendo isn't planning on selling several dozen million consoles and stand alone controllers at a profit on day 1.

and your point is?

 

[F#A#Oo]

Acting as if Nintendo isn't planning on selling several dozen million consoles and stand alone controllers at a profit on day 1.

Put yourself in Nintendo's shoes and all will be clear. If you look at it from the consumer prospective you're only fooling yourself.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Manpower needed to get better graphics does not drop.

Complexity demands more time which means more money.

Budgets have not dropped over 6 years. PS3/360 games still average 20 million dollars or more to make. Wii U will not have the same budgets as the Wii did.

That's too bad then. I don't think higher game prices are what the VG market needs right now, especially with all the competing entertainment options.

It's really predicatable to wait a couple months after a big game releases and then pick it up at a bargain price. It seems to me that more people would buy day one if game prices were kept between $40-$50 dollars.

 

[AlStrong]

Better textures even though we already see texture resolution of that size on current consoles? How does that make sense again?

Nintendoland looks like it's using tiled textures more than anything, tbh. Not sure how 1K x 1K was deduced.

 

[Earendil]

I somehow can't imagine Nintendo doing bullshots, so I assume it's an old build.

The Japanese build also has DoF, which the US screenshots do not show. So definitely not bullshots.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Acting as if Nintendo isn't planning on selling several dozen million consoles and stand alone controllers at a profit on day 1.

They sound like one of those fucking companies. You know the type, the ones that take our money and shit? Despicable.

 

[KageMaru]

Nintendoland looks like it's using tiled textures more than anything, tbh. Not sure how 1K x 1K was deduced.

Thanks Al. =P

 

[Donnie]

Does not change anything, RAM is RAM.
I also know hyperbole when I see it.

You also need more bandwidth to use far bigger textures.

The really interesting bit to me is the mention of less fillrate problems than PS3 or 360.

Nothing earth shattering, but it does tell us that WiiU has a high enough pixel fillrate to push 1280x720 + 845x480 easier than PS3 or XBox could push 1280x720 alone.

Considering its very unlikely that the GPU is clocked higher than Xenos (500Mhz) this suggests it probably has 16 rops rather than the 8 of Xenos and RSX.

 

[frankie_baby]

You also need more bandwidth to use far bigger textures.

The really interesting bit to me is the mention of less fillrate problems than PS3 or 360.

Nothing earth shattering, but it does tell us that WiiU has a high enough pixel fillrate to push 1280x720 + 845x480 easier than PS3 or XBox could push 1280x720 alone.

Considering its very unlikely that the GPU is clocked higher than Xenos (500Mhz) this suggests it probably has 16 rops rather than the 8 of Xenos and RSX.

Has there been anything realistically hinted at regarding GPU clock

 

[Thraktor]

Has there been anything realistically hinted at regarding GPU clock

Someone (Matt, I think) posted a while back saying that a claim that it was 600MHz was a bit too high, or something to that effect, but we haven't got any reliable hard numbers. Estimates range from about 480MHz to about 600MHz.

Edit:

GPU: 600 Mhz

A little too high.

 

[Smurfman256]

Has there been anything realistically hinted at regarding GPU clock

No, but I wouldn't expect anything over 600MHz. 575-580MHz seems like the sweet spot.

 

[Donnie]

Even then, most games of the PS3 or 360 launch looked at least as good as top tier games from the previous generation, and that included a notable resolution buff.

I've yet to see a Wii U game that looks as good as Uncharted 3 or Halo 4. Or hell, even Uncharted 2.

Besides, the Wii got a game early on that looked like a decent increase from the previous gen (Super Mario Galaxy) and it's still arguably the best looking game on the system, along with its sequel.

It's just a bit concerning that despite all these claims of it being a decent leap above current gen, we aren't seeing it. At all.

But current gen consoles were at least 10x more powerful than any previous console. Yet there launch games looked like the best from the previous game. Now considering that what should you expect from a console that's only a few times more powerful? It all comes down to what you call a decent leap. If anything under the leap from XBox to XBox 360 isn't decent to you than no its not a decent leap by your definition. That's your opinion and that's fine.

However when it comes to people claiming WiiU is just the same generation of hardware as the likes of 360 simply because its launch games don't look better, well that's quite an ignorant comment IMO, especially when most of those games are third party ports (not saying you've said that but the post you replied to was in reply to someone who did).

 

[frankie_baby]

Someone (Matt, I think) posted a while back saying that a claim that it was 600MHz was a bit too high, or something to that effect, but we haven't got any reliable hard numbers. Estimates range from about 480MHz to about 600MHz.

Edit:

Yeah that's what I thought I heard, so over 500 is likely

 

[soulassssns]

Someone (Matt, I think) posted a while back saying that a claim that it was 600MHz was a bit too high, or something to that effect, but we haven't got any reliable hard numbers. Estimates range from about 480MHz to about 600MHz.

Edit:

Based off what information would anybody say it 600Mhz or lower?

 

[Donnie]

You are talking absolute rubbish. Honestly. It's one of the most shameful examples of trying to put down another systems launch game to make your machines launch games seem better.

Relative to your laughable comparison. There are a ton of extra shader effects on Kameo. Some of them still looks great even to this day. Add in the bucket loads of extra geometry and detail plus the huge increase in texture resolution and finally a big bump in final render resolution and frame rate. The two are not even close in terms of performance.

Well you'd know about shameful examples of trying to put down a system..

 

[edible_candle]

But current gen consoles were at least 10x more powerful than any previous console. Yet there launch games looked like the best from the previous game. Now considering that what should you expect from a console that's only a few times more powerful? It all comes down to what you call a decent leap. If anything under the leap from XBox to XBox 360 isn't decent to you than no its not a decent leap by your definition. That's your opinion and that's fine.

However when it comes to people claiming WiiU is just the same generation of hardware as the likes of 360 simply because its launch games don't look better, well that's quite an ignorant comment IMO, especially when most of those games are third party ports (not saying you've said that but the post you replied to was in reply to someone who did).

Launch games on Xbox 360 and PS3 in no way looked like the best of the previous generation - they looked massively better. Kameo, Condemned, PGR3, even Perfect Dark Zero and King Kong all sported visuals that shouted, "This is next-gen!" Giant increases in texture resolution, rendering resolution, particle effects, lighting, and objects on screen. And as much as people were unhappy with the graphics of Resistance (mostly in comparison to its contemporary, Gears of War), even that looked way better than anything ever shown on the original Xbox. Everything shown on the Wii U so far simply matches, or slightly improves on what current consoles are doing. Even the Dreamcast, which was quite underpowered in comparison to other consoles of its generation, showed an impressive leap from the generation preceding it.

Unless a new Nintendo, Retro, or Monolith Software game blows everything else away, I'm going to be inclined to believe the Wii U is to the current generation as the Wii was to the last - a supercharged version. More RAM, slightly higher clocks, etc. Which is fine, and to be expected from a console designed for maximum power efficiency on a low-power and space budget. The main hook for the Wii U lies not in a generational leap from other HD consoles.

 

[Thraktor]

Yeah that's what I thought I heard, so over 500 is likely

Yeah. It's a sort of tricky one to guess, as Nintendo tends to go with clean multiples for clock speeds on CPU, GPU, RAM, etc., and there's a DSP which is apparently running at about 120MHz in there which might be a base for said multiples.

 

[frankie_baby]

Yeah. It's a sort of tricky one to guess, as Nintendo tends to go with clean multiples for clock speeds on CPU, GPU, RAM, etc., and there's a DSP which is apparently running at about 120MHz in there which might be a base for said multiples.

Maybe the multiples work on point fives so so we could be talking 540mhz

 

[Donnie]

There are games with low budget and great graphics.

As good looking as Halo 4?, or even close?, no, and there's a reason for that, time, budget and talent.

To say that a medium budget third party launch title like ZombiU should be at least as good looking as a 7th generation huge budget first party title like Halo 4 simply because WiiU is 2-3x more powerful is insane, sorry but its a crazy expectation.

 

[Smurfman256]

Maybe the multiples work on point fives so so we could be talking 540mhz

That would follow the sayings that Wii U's clock is "a bit slower" than the Xbox 360.

 

[netBuff]

That's too bad then. I don't think higher game prices are what the VG market needs right now, especially with all the competing entertainment options.

It's really predicatable to wait a couple months after a big game releases and then pick it up at a bargain price. It seems to me that more people would buy day one if game prices were kept between $40-$50 dollars.

What you are forgetting about is inflation: $50 in 2005 are of an equal purchasing power to $60 now - another reason why development budgets are bound to rise.

 

[Lord Error]

As good looking as Halo 4?, or even close?, no, and there's a reason for that, time, budget and talent.

To say that a medium budget third party launch title like ZombiU should be at least as good looking as a 7th generation huge budget first party title like Halo 4 simply because WiiU is 2-3x more powerful is insane, sorry but its a crazy expectation.

Trailer for that new game called Reset looked better than just about anything, and it was programmed by a single guy, who was targeting high end PC hardware.

That aside, I don't think ZombiU or any WiiU game would need any larger budget to have the game running in 1080p and/or 60FPS. If the console was ~3x more powerful than the current ones, that's the very least any dev could do without any effort spent into making graphics look better.

 

[XtremeXpider]

As good looking as Halo 4?, or even close?, no, and there's a reason for that, time, budget and talent.

Why not? it is not impossible.

To say that a medium budget third party launch title like ZombiU should be at least as good looking as a 7th generation huge budget first party title like Halo 4 simply because WiiU is 2-3x more powerful is insane, sorry but its a crazy expectation.

I'm not saying that, a 3x more powerful console not mean 3X better visuals.

 

[KageMaru]

But current gen consoles were at least 10x more powerful than any previous console. Yet there launch games looked like the best from the previous game. Now considering that what should you expect from a console that's only a few times more powerful? It all comes down to what you call a decent leap. If anything under the leap from XBox to XBox 360 isn't decent to you than no its not a decent leap by your definition. That's your opinion and that's fine.

However when it comes to people claiming WiiU is just the same generation of hardware as the likes of 360 simply because its launch games don't look better, well that's quite an ignorant comment IMO, especially when most of those games are third party ports (not saying you've said that but the post you replied to was in reply to someone who did).

SMH

That aside, I don't think ZombiU or any WiiU game would need any larger budget to have the game running in 1080p and/or 60FPS. If the console was ~3x more powerful than the current ones, that's the very least any dev could do without any effort spent into making graphics look better.

That's not how it works which is why vague multipliers are useless.

 

[Donnie]

Yeah that's what I thought I heard, so over 500 is likely

It could very well be a bit over 500Mhz. I probably should have been more clear. What I meant is its very unlikely that the GPU is enough over 500Mhz to allow for that kind of extra fillrate with 8 rops.

For instance 575Mhz vs 500Mhz would only give you a 15% increase in fillrate if both GPU's have 8 rops. Adding 854x480 on top of 1280x720 adds 45% more pixels.

Its not conclusive, as WiiU may be more efficient in reaching its peak fillrate, but it does suggest that 16 rops are likely IMO.

 

[Donnie]

Launch games on Xbox 360 and PS3 in no way looked like the best of the previous generation - they looked massively better. Kameo, Condemned, PGR3, even Perfect Dark Zero and King Kong all sported visuals that shouted, "This is next-gen!" Giant increases in texture resolution, rendering resolution, particle effects, lighting, and objects on screen. And as much as people were unhappy with the graphics of Resistance (mostly in comparison to its contemporary, Gears of War), even that looked way better than anything ever shown on the original Xbox. Everything shown on the Wii U so far simply matches, or slightly improves on what current consoles are doing. Even the Dreamcast, which was quite underpowered in comparison to other consoles of its generation, showed an impressive leap from the generation preceding it.

You might be able to talk me up from looking alike to looking a bit better, but I'm never agreeing with massively better....

Trailer for that new game called Reset looked better than just about anything, and it was programmed by a single guy, who was targeting high end PC hardware.

That aside, I don't think ZombiU or any WiiU game would need any larger budget to have the game running in 1080p and/or 60FPS. If the console was ~3x more powerful than the current ones, that's the very least any dev could do without any effort spent into making graphics look better.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Why not? it is not impossible.

Many things are theoretically possible. However you mentioned that there are great looking games on low budgets, and I'm just saying that while that may be true none that I know of look as good as Halo 4, which is the crux of this particular argument.

SMH

What's that in English?

 

[wsippel]

People fail to realize one important thing: There's little doubt Halo 4 completely outclasses, say, Perfect Dark Zero. Still, Halo 4 could have been a launch game back in '05. The hardware didn't change in all those years after all. But the tech wasn't there. First gen was basically just "more of the same" compared to the original Xbox. Yes, it looked noticeably better, but the point is that Halo 4 doesn't push the hardware any harder. It simply took developers years to really understand the system and come up with new ideas and new approaches to get those results. My point is that even if the hardware isn't a lot more powerful, as long as it's more modern and developers continue to come up with new ideas and better implementations, there's still massive room for improvement. Not necessarily Doom 3 to Halo 4 improvements, but certainly at least PDZ to Halo 4 improvements.

 

[Thraktor]

Maybe the multiples work on point fives so so we could be talking 540mhz

Well the GC and Wii GPU clocks are 1.5x the CPU clocks, so it's a possibility. Another is that the DSP clock was changed, so we could have, for example:

DSP - 112MHz
GPU - 560MHz (x5)
RAM - 1120MHz (x10)
CPU - 2240MHz (x20)

 

[brochiller]

People fail to realize one important thing: There's little doubt Halo 4 completely outclasses, say, Perfect Dark Zero. Still, Halo 4 could have been a launch game back in '05. The hardware didn't change in all those years after all. But the tech wasn't there. First gen was basically just "more of the same" compared to the original Xbox. Yes, it looked noticeably better, but the point is that Halo 4 doesn't push the hardware any harder. It simply took developers years to really understand the system and come up with new ideas and new approaches to get those results. My point is that even if the hardware isn't a lot more powerful, as long as it's more modern and developers continue to come up with new ideas and better implementations, there's still massive room for improvement. Not necessarily Doom 3 to Halo 4 improvements, but certainly at least PDZ to Halo 4 improvements.

Thanks. I'm no developer and I've often wondered how it is that developers pushed hardware after having more time with it over the years. You put it in a way I can understand which is helpful. Plus it's encouraging knowing that we will see much better looking games over the course of the Wii U's lifespan.

 

[Donnie]

Well the GC and Wii GPU clocks are 1.5x the CPU clocks, so it's a possibility. Another is that the DSP clock was changed, so we could have, for example:

DSP - 112MHz
GPU - 560MHz (x5)
RAM - 1120MHz (x10)
CPU - 2240MHz (x20)

AFAIR everything in Wii and GC were integer multiples. Wii's DSP was 121.5Mhz (possible WiiU's DSP is the same speed). The GPU was x2 (243Mhz), the RAM was x4 (486Mhz or x2 the GPU) and the CPU was x6 (729Mhz or x3 the GPU). GameCube's DSP was 81Mhz, its GPU x2 (162Mhz), its RAM x4 (324Mhz or x2 the GPU) and its CPU was x6 (486Mhz or x3 the GPU).

Not discounting .5 multiples, just FYI on GC/Wii.

 

[KojiKnight]

Mmm serious number speculation... been missing this over the last 10-20 pages.

 

[Thraktor]

AFAIR everything in Wii and GC were integer multiples. Wii's DSP was 121.5Mhz (possible WiiU's DSP is the same speed). The GPU was x2 (243Mhz), the CPU was x6 (729Mhz) or x3 the GPU.

Not discounting .5 multiples, just FYI on GC/Wii.

You're quite right, I was thinking of the N64.

 

[Donnie]

wsippel, very interesting to hear about the multi-core ARM CPU. Is that something you've heard recently from a reliable source or was it some public news that I missed? Also any further details regarding the number of cores or the clock speed?

 

[wsippel]

wsippel, very interesting to hear about the multi-core ARM CPU. Is that something you've heard recently from a reliable source or was it some public news that I missed? Also any further details regarding the number of cores or the clock speed?

It's quite reliable, from the CV of a Nintendo Technology Development employee. Sorry but there weren't any details beyond that.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

People fail to realize one important thing: There's little doubt Halo 4 completely outclasses, say, Perfect Dark Zero. Still, Halo 4 could have been a launch game back in '05. The hardware didn't change in all those years after all. But the tech wasn't there. First gen was basically just "more of the same" compared to the original Xbox. Yes, it looked noticeably better, but the point is that Halo 4 doesn't push the hardware any harder. It simply took developers years to really understand the system and come up with new ideas and new approaches to get those results. My point is that even if the hardware isn't a lot more powerful, as long as it's more modern and developers continue to come up with new ideas and better implementations, there's still massive room for improvement. Not necessarily Doom 3 to Halo 4 improvements, but certainly at least PDZ to Halo 4 improvements.

Sorry but this is rubbish. Xbox 360 and PS3 have been completely new hardware, and it took devs a long time to learn how to deal with multicore cpus, gpus with shader support and to develop new engines and to adapt to a new workflow. That's why there is a big graphical difference between PDZ and Halo 4. But all this is not necessary when developing for the Wii U. There is no hardware in the Wii U which devs have no experience with. And current software tech is very advanced and goes far beyond what the Wii U is capable of, we have engines that support multiple cores and the newest directx and opengl versions. And yet you are talking about "massive room for improvements"? And that we will see "at least PDZ to Halo 4" improvements? That's absurd.

And this is just the technical perspective. What incentive is there for developers to invest resources into massive optimization for Wii U games? In the past, third party sales on Nintendo systems have been low. And I guess sales for ports of old games like Mass Effect / Batman won't be really high. Two possibilities: 1.) Third party sales on Wii continue to be low -> They won't increase their effort on Wii U optimizations. 2.) Third party sales on Wii U are good -> Nice, we can get away with fast ports. Because "Nintendo fans don't care about graphics". And do you really think any third party dev will invest considerable resources into Wii U optimization when PS4 and Xbox 3 will be released? It won't matter then, because the Wii U version will look worse. So why try at all? They will try to make their games run on the Wii U, and if they are stable they will call it a day. And Nintendo? Their focus is not on graphics. They won't spend millions on graphics optimization. Wii U games will look better than Xbox 360 and PS3 games, but the jump will not be that big. You are expecting way too much.

 

[Tears For Fears]

People don't seem too understand that this is a new Nintendo. They don't care about keeping up with the Jones, they just want to make as much money with little to no loss. Like most companies, only they take a mile instead of an inch.

 

[Mastperf]

that wasn't the claim i was responding to. let me requote what i was responding to:



now tell me where it says anything about POWER. it's all about architecture. PS4 and Xbox Loop are going to have multicore cpus with shader support.

try to pay attention.

You've already been told by multiple people but continue to repeat the question. Yes, it is about POWER since every gen starts with devs trying to figure out how to best utilize that POWER.The WiiU's POWER is similar to current gen and develpers can just use existing models and assets with enhancements. So far I see the jump from PS360 to WiiU as a smaller jump than PS2 to Xbox. I see no reason to expect some sort of hidden potential that blows the best current gen software away.
The WiiU is designed to run current gen engines. These engines have had years to mature to their current state and that and developer experience is a huge benefit to the WiiU. This was clearly part of Nintendo's plan and it was a risky but clever idea.
The next systems are expected to have a generational jump in power that will restart the cycle of immature engines and tools all over again. The learning curve will be smoother than this gen but will still have it's fair share of difficulty.
I'm not sure what other answers you're looking for since no, the next systems won't be similar simply because they have multi-core cpu's and shaders, and your questions are terribly half-assed and unclear.

try to pay attention.

Try to ask a question like an adult and don't act like an asshole.

 

[Kai Dracon]

People don't seem too understand that this is a new Nintendo. They don't care about keeping up with the Jones, they just want to make as much money with little to no loss. Like most companies, only they take a mile instead of an inch.

Nintendo has always focused on being efficient and not wasting money - to make as much as possible with as little loss as possible.

What's "new" about Nintendo from the perspective of game players, is that Nintendo's market aims and business philosophy do not scale upwards to the level that enthusiast game hardware reached after the sixth console generation. This is their "not keeping up with the Jones". But it might be more accurate to say Nintendo never changed their address - it was the Jonses who up and moved to a more expensive part of town.

It seems Nintendo will try to never release a piece of gaming hardware in which the basic buy-in is more than $300, due to aiming at the mass market. Even that is a bit rich by their traditional standard. But this generation also has not seen gaming hardware depreciate too far - as far as the HD twins go, we never got to the $99* blowout tier to liquidate the remaining hardware. We're only just getting to the $150 point for Xbox, and Sony is going "lalala, let's try raising PS3 and see how that works for a change!"

*not counting the Xbox/Kinect subscription package deal, obviously.

 

[Sheroking]

People don't seem too understand that this is a new Nintendo. They don't care about keeping up with the Jones, they just want to make as much money with little to no loss. Like most companies, only they take a mile instead of an inch.

Selling for a profit is quite possibly the oldest policy Nintendo has.

There's nothing "new" about it.

 

[wsippel]

Sorry but this is rubbish. Xbox 360 and PS3 have been completely new hardware, and it took devs a long time to learn how to deal with multicore cpus, gpus with shader support and to develop new engines and to adapt to a new workflow. That's why there is a big graphical difference between PDZ and Halo 4. But all this is not necessary when developing for the Wii U. There is no hardware in the Wii U which devs have no experience with. And current software tech is very advanced and goes far beyond what the Wii U is capable of, we have engines that support multiple cores and the newest directx and opengl versions. And yet you are talking about "massive room for improvements"? And that we will see "at least PDZ to Halo 4" improvements?

You already posted the perfect answer to your post:

That's absurd.

Yep.