The problem is you are only using numbers that back your case, and not addressing any of the arguments against it. You keep making long winded, pretentious arguments that make little to no sense. Then you admit you have barely even seen him play.
Bargs converts at the rim like a SG because he plays like one. You keep comparing him to guys like Dwight Howard. He doesn't play like them. The only big man in the NBA who plays like Bargs is Dirk, and Bargs is no Dirk, Dwight is no Dirk, 95 percent of NBA players are no Dirk.
Black Mamba said:
League average is 50% this year, he's at 48%. You know who is at 48.1%? Ryan Fucking Gomes.
If Ryan Fucking Gnomes was forced to ISo at the three point line his EFG% would drop a lot. If Dwight was forced to run some of the plays Bargs is, he would have the worst EFG% in the history of the NBA. Just like if you asked Bargs to run the plays Dwight does, Bargs wouldn't even be in the fucking NBA, he couldn't do it. Only one other 7 footer does what Bargs is asked to do. You have nobody to compare him to. Stop comparing him to guys who sit under the paint and get easy buckets.
League average for Centers is 52%. League average for PFs is 50.4% Congrats, he's below average shooting for a big man.
So Bargs, who 80 percent of his shots are JUMP SHOTS is 2 percent behind the league average for centers. Good comparison.
Once again, stop comparing league averages and leader boards. Bargs was forced to take over 1,100 shots this year. Stop comparing him to averages that take into account players who shoot 50 times a season.
uh, efg% is used to account for 3s. 33% on 3 = 50% efg%. He shoots 34.5% on 3s or 51.8efg%. To get 48% means he is stinking it up inside the arc. You know, where bigs usually do well.
EFG% takes into account 3 points percentages, which is why his drops compared to centers who don't take them (99 percent of centers in the NBA). Both EFG% and TS% try to adjust for three point shots taken, but the adjustment is not perfect, just like those two stats are not perfect.
You keep talking about what "centers should be doing". As I said, he isn't a center, doesn't play like a center, never has played like a center. He should be playing at the PF position, and even playing their, would be a finesse PF.
Really? Teams double team bargs on the perimeter? Granted, I haven't seen a lot of Raptor games because LOL but I would love somebody else to confirm this for me because I don't understand why anyone would double team bargnani like ever.
Bargs is double teamed a lot. Not many teams guard him one on one, and even when it happens, like against OKC, he still will drop 20+.
I knew you'd bring this up.
Perkins takes 3.4 shots per game at the rim. He converts 66% which is right at league average.
Bargnani? 57%
Bargnani is the only Center in the league to take 3+ shots in the paint in the league and convert below 60% of them. THE ONLY ONE. the same is true as a power forward. Over 60 centers and power forwards all take over 3+ attempts per game at the rim and only Bargs converts under 60%.
In fact, the only players in the league who convert at a lower rate than him but take more shot attempts than him are: Devin harris, Stephen jackson, Brandon Jennings, DJ Augustin, Carmelo, Rodney Stuckey. That's out of about 100 players.
edit: before you cry about him being doubled again, note that he is assisted on nearly 2/3 of his at rim shots, which is above average for a C. He just sucks at scoring in the paint.
Congrats, your Big Man converts at the rim like a 6 foot point guard and takes a ton of 3s which he's just okay at and a bunch of long 2s which is the worst shot in basketball. Bargnani is the king of taking bad shots and not converting good shots. Awesome offensive player is awesome.
Offensive Prowess baby!
You knew I would bring it up because it's true. Stop using leader board stats. You argue basketball like a 13 year old runs his fantasy team. Perkins converts 66 percent of his shots at the rim because he onyl gets the ball when he is WIDE FUCKING OPEN. If he constantly converted 66 percent of his shots at the rim under any circumstance, why would a team not give him the ball more on offense? Thats because he fucking SUCKS at scoring. League averages are propped up because bad players are given the ball and told to score only when they are open. This increases their shooting percentages tremendously. If you took those same players and made them take over 1000 shots in the league, their percentages would go down. This is a fact. By your math, Perkins would be the best center in the NBA.
Stats do not always work, they do not always prove points. They are used as a guideline to measure a players performance, but are not, and never will be the definitive answer to all questions basketball related. If they were you would never draft on potential, never develop based on tools and you would mathematically be able to create a championship team. This is a fallacy, and what people new to basketball think.
Strawman!
For one, I've seen all but I believe 1 Laker game this season. A huge chunk of Clipper games and most of the national games involving Miami, Chicago, Spurs, Boston, Dallas, etc. Sorry Toronto isn't high on my list. But I've seen enough of Bargninny in my time to know what he's all about.
My argument is based on what I've seen. The numbers simply back all that up. And I am not using PER.
Your arguments are not based on what you have seen, because you openly admit to not watching Toronto games. So stop making an ass out of yourself. You keep comparing Bargs to paint players, he isn't one. He is a shooting guard in a centers body and that's his main problem.
He does suck in the paint but the further you move from the basket the better he is. Which is why he is one of the best perimeter big men in the entire league. Is that valuable to a team? No the Raptors. But it doesn't mean he has no offensive talent. In 10 years all centers will be able to play the perimeter. There is a reason guys like Dwight are once in a decade type players now, but in the 90's and 80's were everywhere. Basketball is changing, for better or worse (worse).
So what you're saying is that he's shooting too much. We finally agree on something.
Bargs is an okay scorer. Not a good one. If he was good, you wouldn't be saying he shoots too much.
Basically, if you reduce his shot output he'd be an average shooting player. Yay! So he gives you average shooting with below average passing/turnover so he's below average on offense and cover my eyes before they bleed bad on defense.
Like I said. he does 1 thing and only 1 thing and he's not even that good at it. It would be like a guy whose only skill is to shoot 3s but he shoots them at 34% (point being, if you can't do anything but shoot 3s, you damn well better shoot above 40% like Matt Bonner, otherwise you are useless as is Bargs).
He does shoot to much, but neither you nor I know what his percentages would be like if he shot less. He shoots more because he is a third option, second at peak trying to carry a franchise filled with young or awful players. He isn't given free, open look baskets like almost all NBA centers and PF today (minus the handful of franchise ones). None of us know what Bargs would do if he suddenly had no pressure on his shoulders to carry a shit team. We could hypothesis based on his play two years ago, but he is a better player now, then he was then. This is what GM's see in Bargs.
This is exactly what I said. Since he sucks so bad on defense, he can only justify it by being good on offense. But he's not, he's just okay.
If he is the second best scoring center in the NBA, and is dropping 20+ on good and elite defenders, and 30+ on scrubs like Amare, then yes, he is just okay.
very rarely does a player learn after age 25. Bargs is who he is - a borderline bench player getting paid $12 million or whatever stupid amount it is.
You misjudged him. Time to accept it.
Most Europeans continue to improve their game until they are damn close to 30.
All this said, Bargs isn't a good player. But saying he has no offensive talent, or is just okay, is wrong. Numbers don't always tell the entire story. Not many big men in the NBA have been able to even stop him.
He does things centers like Dwight Howard can't do. Thats what makes him different. You can't just look at percentages because we have no guideline for what percentages for centers like him should look like. The closest we have is Dirk, but Dirk is an elite, HOF caliber player. We have not seen enough centers in the league like Bargs to judge if his numbers are good or bad offensively.
We can say by the traditional mold of an NBA center, who protects/players in the paint that he is fucking GARBAGE. But we can also say those traditional centers who can only play in the paint can't do half what he can do outside of it.
Your numbers don't account for speed, agility, quickness, lateral movement, basketball IQ, positioning, ability to shifft defenses, drawing double teams etc.. There are various other things that simply are not measurable.
He is not a player I want on my team, but to dismiss his ability offensively, when GM's and coach's don't, make you look, well, wrong.
