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[Hylian7]

I'll give those a try. The reason I ask for something to straight up beat her is because usually the carries I like don't fare well against her, like AM and Spectre. They straight up lose to her. Both of them have to farm for a while, and if PA is on the lane they need to farm, PA will win out on that exchange, always.

On top of that, it always feels like with heroes like that (let's use AM for example), by the time I get Manta, MKB, and whatever else (probably Basher/Abyssal), we've already lost. Not simply because it took too long to get those items, but because there were many failed attempts to gank PA, and they took all our towers in 20 minutes, she has Abyssal, BKB, and we're already screwed.

 

[sixghost]

You guys know that feeling when your team lost mid pretty bad, lost all your towers and half your rax while the enemy still has T2's, are being shit-talked for the last 30 minutes by the enemy rat about how good he is and bad we are, are trying to deal with a SF that had a butterfly @ 30 minutes and have to turtle and try to keep everyone's spirits up...

http://i.imgur.com/3CkZ3s0.png[/IG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1ipjvf5.png[/IG]

...and you and your WR carry that shit like you were[I] born[/I] to do it? Then get to ask the shit-talker why he's so quiet? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0TOmCsu.png[/IG]

That feel is the best feel. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hRkPxxA.png[/IG]

Never give up boys.[/QUOTE]

The best part is that you just know the dude who was talking shit is feeling the pressure once the turn around starts. Then you get to watch him fuck up fight after fight.

 

[poppedcollar69]

i always thought omniknight was saying 'hat-chap'

 

[Dreams-Visions]

but because there were many failed attempts to gank PA, and they took all our towers in 20 minutes, she has Abyssal, BKB, and we're already screwed.

there aren't any heroes in the pool that will save you from a PA with huge items @ 20 minutes who's been fed off the strength of failed ganks and tower gold.

FWIW, I've also had a tremendous amount of success against PA with mid Zeus. The burst damage is real given she sits below 1k HP for a long, long time and can delay her item progression quite a bit. Gotta kite her after she gets bkb but by then you should have Veil, maybe Aghs, maybe both. Then you explode her.

The best part is that you just know the dude who was talking shit is feeling the pressure once the turn around starts. Then you get to watch him fuck up fight after fight.

I'll be feeling good about that when I wake up in the morning. Thanks, Nature's Prophet.

 

[Hylian7]

i always thought omniknight was saying 'hat-chap'

I always heard "Hat trap!"

 

[kasane]

man fuck this shit i always lose whenever i play invoker but the games are actually close

fuck my terrible winrate with him

 

[Hylian7]

there aren't any heroes in the pool that will save you from a PA with huge items @ 20 minutes.

Right, and that's a more extreme example, but one where she just has decent farm. For instance this game: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1146180704

Every lane I tried to go farm, either PA was on it, and I couldn't do that because I would just get my face critted off, or the team was on the other two lanes. I can go to the jungle, yeah, but then there is the possibility of them coming there to, and I don't always feel safe there so that was not always an option. I got plenty of farm, you can see that from the GPM here, but we just couldn't do anything about them 5-manning our base.

This is the item progression from DB+.

 

[Sigismundo]

If she misses the AoE slow in a 1v1 scenario, she's dead.

Trust me, I will miss ECA at close range but I'll hit it from the other side of the map and kill someone with it.

This has actually happened before.

 

[nilbog21]

Okay, this is frustrating. What carry straight up beats PA other than Void? I feel like the only go-to carries lately are Void and PA, at least as far as pubs are concerned.

wr

 

[xanavi]

Drow can solo kill/send to base a lot of melee heroes at level 4-5. I'd like to see Ashe do that.

Back when I was playing I'd go Ashe mid and with pre-nerf volley and mana runes it wasn't that tough actually.

Popping 6 was a guaranteed kill with volley+arrow if they hadn't gone base 1-5.

 

[NormalFish]

man fuck this shit i always lose whenever i play invoker but the games are actually close

fuck my terrible winrate with him

Better than me on rubick. Always play well; never win.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Right, and that's a more extreme example, but one where she just has decent farm. For instance this game: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1146180704

Every lane I tried to go farm, either PA was on it, and I couldn't do that because I would just get my face critted off, or the team was on the other two lanes. I can go to the jungle, yeah, but then there is the possibility of them coming there to, and I don't always feel safe there so that was not always an option. I got plenty of farm, you can see that from the GPM here, but we just couldn't do anything about them 5-manning our base.

This is the item progression from DB+.

I don't play much AM, but yea...that 10 minutes between Bfury and manta was probably the kiss of death. If not that, then definitely it was having to get BKB when she could ignore it for more damage. I think you could have fought her with a basher and manta. That's a lot of mana burn. But...IDK. If the enemy carry can freely farm and you can't, it's gonna be a hard game to win.

My last AM game was decidedly smoother.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1098237645

Only my second AM game since 2012.

Back when I was playing I'd go Ashe mid and with pre-nerf volley and mana runes it wasn't that tough actually.

Popping 6 was a guaranteed kill with volley+arrow if they hadn't gone base 1-5.

yea but that's a different thing. sure if an enemy is pushed up damn near to your tower and is standing around at 1/2 HP, you can get a pickoff if Flash is down. It's a much easier process for Drow because her slow is stronger against single targets than Ashe's is. And of course, you can't miss Drow's slow unlike Ashe, who's slow can be blocked by minions.

Also unlike Ashe, Drow's orb walk does not draw creep aggro. That's a pretty big deal. 60% move slow (well 40% assuming you start 3-1-1-0) + gust = kills pre 6 on Drow fairly easily if you play it right. Even from full HP.

Trust me, I will miss ECA at close range but I'll hit it from the other side of the map and kill someone with it.

This has actually happened before.

haha. that's Ashe alright. Hitting the hail mary from across the map is one of the better feelings in League.

 

[Hylian7]

I don't play much AM, but yea...that 10 minutes between Bfury and manta was probably the kiss of death. If not that, then definitely it was having to get BKB when she could ignore it for more damage. I think you could have fought her with a basher and manta. That's a lot of mana burn. But...IDK. If the enemy carry can freely farm and you can't, it's gonna be a hard game to win.

My last AM game was decidedly smoother.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1098237645

Only my second AM game since 2012.

Basically that 10 minutes was when I had nowhere to farm. On top of that, I said I was going to get MKB, but WR said I should get BKB instead for all the CC they had. She had a point, and since she went MKB already I went BKB.

 

[Haly]

Frost Shot
SLOW: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35%

Frost Arrows
Move Speed Slow: 15%/30%/45%/60%

*explodes with laughter*

 

[Dreams-Visions]

*explodes with laughter*

fwiw, don't forget Ashe has 2 slows. Q and W are slows. and the ult can immobilize a target for quite some time while doing significant damage. But it's also important to mention that Q isn't maxed until like level 10 or 12 on Ashe so her Q is pretty weak for the first 20 minutes, where on Drow it's maxed first or second.

 

[Haly]

Volley also applies the current rank of Frost Shot, regardless of whether it is toggled on or not.

 

[xanavi]

For sure I'd take drow over ashe any day of the week.

It's was actually a fun game I played with a guy I played league and dota with -- see if you can find any champs that could hang in a match of dotes.

Between the two of us we agreed that most league champs would get rekt in dota because even in terms of level 1 hp values doto seems OP.

Pre-nerf Twisted Fate seemed like he could still be pretty broke in doto though if you could still buy sheen.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I actually didn't know that W's slow was tied to Q. Huh.

 

[Sigismundo]

Lee Sin is probably the only champ that could feasibly fit into Dota 2 and he'd still need changes. Also beta TF was pretty much just Furion.

 

[Drkirby]

Also, even her Ult's AoE Slow doesn't stack with the Frost Arrows. Though at least her ult slows 50%.

 

[Haly]

I actually didn't know that W's slow was tied to Q. Huh.

That's because Ashe is one of the worst champions in the game and no one actually bothers playing her enough to know what she does (or can't do).

 

[NormalFish]

Lee Sin is probably the only champ that could feasibly fit into Dota 2 and he'd still need changes. Also beta TF was pretty much just Furion.

Orianna would fit right into dota with only a few numbers tweaks. So would Thresh, I'd say. Maybe Nami as well.

 

[xanavi]

Lee Sin is probably the only champ that could feasibly fit into Dota 2 and he'd still need changes. Also beta TF was pretty much just Furion.

A furion that gained spirit breaker vision of the entire enemy team and could instagib supports was pretty oppa.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Lee Sin is probably the only champ that could feasibly fit into Dota 2 and he'd still need changes. Also beta TF was pretty much just Furion.

Jinx could be ported over largely in tact. Most of the ADC's could. A number of assassin AP mids could come too (not the mana-free ones). They'd just need their damage values changed to compensate for not having AP scaling items and skills would probably get more expensive (mana). Having Lux, Ahri, Lucian, MF, Jinx and some of those would be cool. It's not like Dota doesn't have its steroid heroes (Clinkz).

That's because Ashe is one of the worst champions in the game and no one actually bothers playing her enough to know what she does (or can't do).

true.

Orianna would fit right into dota with only a few numbers tweaks. So would Thresh, I'd say. Maybe Nami as well.

pls no more grab heroes. Nami and Ori yes pls.

 

[Haly]

Guys I realized how to fix LD.

Replace him with Orianna and a fully microable Ball that can carry items,

You can pay me in arcanas, Gaben.

 

[NormalFish]

Guys I realized how to fix LD.

Replace him with Orianna and a fully microable Ball that can carry items,

You can pay me in arcanas, Gaben.

This would make LD 92% less shit.

 

[Drkirby]

Imagine having Karthus in Dota, with his passive still in tact. If he could also use items, he would be a great support.

 

[Monochromaticx]

Guys I realized how to fix LD.

Replace him with Orianna and a fully microable Ball that can carry items,

You can pay me in arcanas, Gaben.

I wouldn't mind that. I liked that champion in the short period I played LoL.

 

[Haly]

Both Zeus and Necrolyte are better than Karthass.

 

[xanavi]

Imagine having Karthus in Dota, with his passive still in tact. If he could also use items, he would be a great support.

If you want a support that can use items from the grave just pick aba.

Support karthus would just cast a smaller version of invo icewall and be too underleveled to be scary for damage.

 

[Drkirby]

Both Zeus and Necrolyte are better than Karthass.

Yeah, but early game he would be great in an aggressive trilane. Oh, you killed me? Well, I'll just keep throwing my nukes at you guys for a bit, have fun.

He does have a 850 ranged 200 AoE skillshot on a 1 second cool down.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Both Zeus and Necrolyte are better than Karthass.

oh that's not even a debate.

 

[Haly]

I don't feel like that's a worthwhile trade for first blood.

 

[Sigismundo]

I don't feel like that's a worthwhile trade for first blood.

What if Karth dying didn't trigger a kill until his passive ran out?

 

[Haly]

I don't think he does enough damage to justify it.

 

[Razzer]

Right, and that's a more extreme example, but one where she just has decent farm. For instance this game: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1146180704

Every lane I tried to go farm, either PA was on it, and I couldn't do that because I would just get my face critted off, or the team was on the other two lanes. I can go to the jungle, yeah, but then there is the possibility of them coming there to, and I don't always feel safe there so that was not always an option. I got plenty of farm, you can see that from the GPM here, but we just couldn't do anything about them 5-manning our base.

This is the item progression from DB+.

Btw, I'd suggest trying out a vlads build if you're struggling. To get a feel for why watch an Rtz vod from the last week where he spams AM. He almost always got vlads, before battlefury in bad games and after in good ones. Black^ himself also said a while back he considers vlads core on AM these days.
The reason it's good is that you can jungle and start your rotating farm even if you got shutdown as you have enough sustain. It isn't as fast as battlefury, but it will let you grind your way to it whereas just going for battlefury anyway may result in you dying over and over. Similar reasons for getting after bfury, it means you can stay out of sight a bit, farm more safely, as well as split push faster, which as AM is what you should be doing after bfury, NOT fighting. You can even solo rosh in certain games, depending on whether a teammate can help without actually being there like sending summons or Venge using wave.

 

[Wok]

Isn't TI5 the bounty rune - gold?

TI6 is yellow for illusion rune

If we need a sixth color, it shall be cyan, assuming TI2 was the blue DD rune.

 

[Haly]

What do you guys think Icefrog introduced the Bounty rune for?

New rune in 2015 believe.

 

[ViviOggi]

Old TF was the only champ worth playing

 

[kasane]

What do you guys think Icefrog introduced the Bounty rune for?

New rune in 2015 believe.

so he can fully embrace his inner hon

 

[pachuco]

Whenever I listen to replays in the dota 2 client, during the draft in captains mode, the caster's voices are always super laggy. Why is this? It's usually fine when we get to the map.

 

[Kard8p3]

I'm calling it now; TI6 will be Rubiline (aka the best color ever)

 

[sixghost]

The new 0 minute bounty runes have turned everyone into idiots. Even the mid players don't bother to block and go sit on the runes.

 

[Sigismundo]

It will be Blossom Red since apparently it's too difficult to just call something Pink.

 

[Demoli]

Artezy may have just donated to AGDQ, pretty cool

 

[Indignate]

So Techies is next on my challenge and I've learned that I don't really like playing Techies but I like the disgusting amount of hatred I get from the opposing team when I pick them (and sometimes my own team).

 

[G.ZZZ]

Artezy may have just donated to AGDQ, pretty cool

Litterally Jesus the 2nd Kreygasm

 

[G.ZZZ]

The new 0 minute bounty runes have turned everyone into idiots. Even the mid players don't bother to block and go sit on the runes.

It's a big advantage for dire imho as it is incredibly easy to gank radiant bot rune, so many fb there

 

[Hylian7]

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1148591581

Best game of the night.

First 20 minutes were getting shit on, Riki tearing us apart. Then something clicked, we had amazing teamfights, good bass drops, dubsteps, you name it. We took two rax in one push, then we were waiting to go for the third. It got shaky a few times. We went top, they went on us, we killed a few, Doom was the last left, and right as he was about to kill Axe, I used the Aghanim's ability on him and turned him to a rock to spread the ult one last time.

The entire match there were amazing plays made by the whole team. Witch Doctor thought it was over by 15 minutes, we turned it the hell around. GG.

The new 0 minute bounty runes have turned everyone into idiots. Even the mid players don't bother to block and go sit on the runes.

THANK YOU!

People always bitch at me for not going for them when I play mid and I usually say "I'd like to get my advantage from blocking the lane, dying over half a level's worth of XP doesn't sound that worth it to me."

 

[Nymerio]

So the new alliance roster is finalized. No bulldong though

http://thealliance.gg/reborn-roster-changes-in-alliance-dota/