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DOTA 2 |OT8| DOTA Asian Championship (1/27-2/9)
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Its like going in to the Time Chamber in DBZ. Play unranked for a year and come out a 5K player. Success.
Or it turns out you were actually on a treadmill and you emerge a very slim and lean 2.5k player.
Heh, after hearing the Smite ads repeat ad infinitum on BTS
PENTAKILL
WE GOT A PENTAKIIIIIIILL
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I don't even get why this happened. I used to love watching it, tuned in to pro streams and tournaments.
Then suddenly I was done and I didn't miss it at all. Maybe it has something to do with there only being 3 races and matches eventually getting predictable(and quickly decided), but I really don't know.
I think team dynamics ultimately make a much better spectacle long-term. It's harder to remain interested in a single player compared to team rosters and shakeups and drama and what have you. It's similar to why the most popular sports are team games as opposed to Badminton or something.
call_kotaku
Member
So I guess USE isn't playable right now? Was going to queue for a game but I guess I'll just take a nap
Oddly enough this only happens when I'm about to win a game... IN RANKED.. FML
Starcraft was huge from 2004ish to 2008 in Korea. I think it has more to do with the quality of the game and the way Blizzard handled the scene than anything else. It really didn't help that BW had 3 or 4 years to breathe before it really became a huge esport. SC2 got thrown into the fire immediately, and the map quality/unit balance wasn't up to snuff. The first year of SC2 was played on some of the worst RTS maps I've ever fucking seen. Add to that Blizzard constantly making balance changes before players could explore the version and come up with their own counters to dominant strategies and Blizzard's complete control of the map making scene early on in the games life.
SC2 had every chance to be just as big as Dota but they screwed up such fundamental things. The client didn't even have any sort of chat channels for like 2 years. You couldn't watch group replays for the longest time. The spectating features were dogshit compared to what Dota came out with only a few years later.
SteveWinwood
Member
i wrote up a novel once with all the reasons i thought sc2 blew their shot to be where leeg, dotes, or csgo are right now lemme see if i can find it
edit i cant find it i have too many posts shitting on sc2 to wade through
edit i cant find it i have too many posts shitting on sc2 to wade through
Oi, I'm not denying that SC2 messed up in big ways. And obviously SC/BW in Korea was/is on a tier of its own. All I'm saying is all being said and done, team-based competition has an edge over head-to-head, all other factors being equal.
this is the biggest reason I think HotS is boned. Blizzard has show little aptitude in balancing anything, especially something as complicated as a Moba
call_kotaku
Member
I disagree, I think fighting games (and Smash) are probably an even better spectator sport than any of the team games, and CS has always been a pretty bad spectator's game even if its compelling conceptually. You have to realize that there's a significant number of "fairweather fans" in esports, who follow the hype rather than necessarily the games. They latched on to SC2 even though theoretically it was a worse game in 2010 than it is now, and they'll follow DOTA and League until the genre loses momentum, and they'll only tune in for the FGC during EVO finals but ignore it 364 days of the year because the genre doesn't make enough money to matter. I think Valve runs the International with the understanding that the narrative around your game matters more than the actual game itself (which is why I think there might be issues if the prize pool for the International doesn't keep topping itself every year), but I don't think Blizzard ever really grasped it.
The huge crowds of Korean fangirls left BW after the betting scandal and never came back, even though the game itself didn't change.
Night_Hand
Neo Member
RIP me playing dota at university. Internet so bad
I think there's enough examples of individual performance in traditional competitions to show that it's not particularly important. Tennis and Golf are very popular without the coordination dynamic, and so is the more niche but respected Poker and Chess. And the olympics is mostly about solo competitors, not team competitions and is obviously super popular with the general population.
On the SC2 topic, I'll say I stopped playing and watching when it became obvious that blizzard was too afraid of rocking the boat to make major changes to the game for the better, even with a paid expansion pack. In general though, Blizzard screwed their own chances in Asia by first pissing off KESPA, and then had the hubris to ignore how the local markets worked by insisting on a DRM'd 60 dollars per person release in a culture of lan centers and F2P.
If we're going by sports, individual performance gets completely out-hyped/out-marketed/out-milked by stuff like soccer, baseball, basketball, rugby, etc.
Olympics is kind of a special case since it's something greater than the sum of its parts. Actually it's sorta like EVO in that regard hahahah.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Who are you picking these days and are there heroes you can dominate better with? I know Tinker isn't what he used to be and Pudge is only going to carry a game for as long as he can continue to snowball. Maybe it's appropriate to re-evaluate the heroes you're hitching the wagon to? Maybe more heroes that can do more with the farm and kills? Maybe mids that can make big plays on groups of heroes rather than just one? Perhaps Magnus or QoP? Necro? Or Invoker? All bring massive amounts of AoE, whether damage, cc or heals.
Dotabuff's MMR Buddy is a nice feature.
Sigismundo
Member
I'm wondering how you could F2P SC2 without making it egregiously horrible. "Free Terran but $25 for one race/$40 for both" sounds about what Blizzard would do taking WoW/Hearthstone into account (which, while cheaper, is still pretty bad)
shira
Member
They had Dota. All they had to do was give Icefrog and EUL some $ and make the mod into a full game.
Not sure about that man. Valve has a way better track record of turning mods into games. (See: every Valve game
outside of the ones that aren't
Sigismundo
Member
Whenever Blizzard make WC4 that'll probably be the F2P RTS. Free Humans (cause they're boring in comparison) but $10 for each race. Expect a ton of bonus races apart from Humans/Orcs/Undead/Night Elves (although I always wanted a Naga race in WC3)
call_kotaku
Member
Cosmetics for units (they did do this for leveling up later on, but at that point nobody cared), custom flairs etc, like how DOTA does it pretty much. Also, they can make the multiplayer part free but charge for the campaign, which a lot of people play without even touching the competitive portions of the game and is something non of the MOBAs can really offer.
I think the real problem is the game not being that fun when you play poorly at the low level (DOTA is actually still an okay experience even when your mechanics and game knowledge are poor, the only thing that can ruin it is other people), and there not being a good enough meta for top players to have distinguishable styles at the high level. Strangely enough I think making the mechanics less obtuse and stupid made the game less interesting as a competitive sport, because there wasn't a mechanical threshold for being a pro gamer and no "mastery" that was necessarily achievable, so understanding the meta and getting fortunate reads on your opponent became too big a part of being a successful competitor. I think mobas being a team game about adaptation instead of execution (why deathpush got nerfed to the ground the moment it became dominant) sort of alleviates that problem.
SecretMoblin
Member
hit level 13 last night, so I guess I can do ranked now
I don't really care (at all) about MMR though, so I'm not really sure I'll partake
let me get into ARDM
I don't really care (at all) about MMR though, so I'm not really sure I'll partake
let me get into ARDM
Beat my record GPM.
Lately, probably the top 5 most common picks for me are Storm Spirit, Earth Spirit, Faceless Void, Pudge, and Anti-Mage. The latter is probably not the best choice in solo ranked, and every time I pick him, I think "Oh I can handle it", and then we lose in 25 minutes and realize I can handle it, but my team can't, therefore I can't get any farm.
I've had a ton of solo ranked games lately that were just thrown late, whether by my own mistake or (more often) by my teammates idiocy. Take the example from this game:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1157283982
Jugg (at least I'm pretty sure it was him) fed the courier intentionally twice. Anyone that disagreed with what he was calling, he just said "Add me and compare MMR bro, if yours is higher, I'll listen to anything you say." Fuck that garbage. Toward the end there were two plays that singlehandedly lost us the game. The first was when we were backing, and Jugg decided "Hey it's a great time for a teamfight when no one else is here." went in 1v5, died, and said "Where were you pussies?" Then we were saw their Bristleback standing on their low ground in front of their T3. Their team wasn't on the map, Jugg tells me "Zip in and grab him, he'll die" I said "No, we don't know what's up there." Jugg, and some of the rest of the team go in anyway, and die of course, and blame me for it, saying that I threw the game. Of course Jugg gives me the whole "Lets compare MMR" garbage, which is actually reminiscent of a person I once played with (won't name names) that said that when I criticized his bad decision.
Nice EZ mode.
Haha yeahA record is a record though!
But you get your team's gold, so it's a free GPM boost.
I don't care for MMR that much either but I basically always play ranked because I find there are far less quitters. Other people caring about MMR is a good thing I guess. So there's one reason you could at least try out ranked.
NotoriousPUG
Member
Earth Spirit is the hardest hero in the game to win with. No matter how well you do early, you just fall off so hard at the very end. My last 3 games I went 16/1, 11/6, and 18/4 and in all 3 I was just worthless at the very latest stages of the game.
I actually think the team aspect of Dota makes it more difficult to follow if anything. It's different in real life sports; people are Cleveland Browns fans because they live or grew up in Cleveland. I don't know why anyone would be a fan of an esports organization. Who out there is a diehard EG fan regardless of the players on the team? The only team I ever really was a fan of was TI4 C9, now only 2 of those players are even on the team. If teams were more stable it would be a different story.
You'd be surprised at how much support organizations get from their local kinsmen just for being from a location, even considering all the @NADota hijinks for example.
This is true of everything from Russia and Ukraine, to SEA, to China (ESPECIALLY China). Of course, in this case language/culture and social networking have a lot to do with it, so it's a slightly different case than supporting your local city sports establishments, like you mentioned.
SteveWinwood
Member
shira
Member
DAC PP $1,766,575
winning team $742k
cloud9 $212k
That's because the city's economy is directly tied to the sports team. Those teams employ thousands of workers and the stadiums are paid for with city funds. If the team does badly then so to does the economy.
That doesn't exist in esports on that level.
winning team $742k
cloud9 $212k
That's because the city's economy is directly tied to the sports team. Those teams employ thousands of workers and the stadiums are paid for with city funds. If the team does badly then so to does the economy.
That doesn't exist in esports on that level.
Only 766 gpm here
Also, I need my "NBA Jam" announcer pack for AA/Axe, because heating up from way downtown feels so good.
edit: Also, I wish items could be broken down while dead and/or in stash. Built a basilius trying to complete my tranquils and urn and wasn't alive in time to sell it for full gold
Also, I need my "NBA Jam" announcer pack for AA/Axe, because heating up from way downtown feels so good.
edit: Also, I wish items could be broken down while dead and/or in stash. Built a basilius trying to complete my tranquils and urn and wasn't alive in time to sell it for full gold
Maaaaaan I will never uninstall the NBA Jam pack. Too good.
She's ranged. She does a lot of aoe damage. She farms quickly. She wrecks most heroes mid. She can transition decently well into the late game. She's very mobile with pretty much the best blink in the game. Her ulti now pierces magic immunity so it can wreck heroes like AM or Huskar.
Did I miss anything?
You could replace "qop" with "storm" or "puck" and answer your own question.
Good slow, hard to escape from, huge burst damage, versatile, pure, low cooldown damage ult (with Scepter), fast
How is her blink not better than AM's?
I absolutely do not enjoy playing her this patch (I think this is the first time I've played her this patch if I'm not mistaken)
She blinks a little faster due to animation stuff. AM does his little twirl first but she just goes.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Watched it the last 2 team fights. Your team was fully comprised of idiots.
1.) Initiating on a Crimson Guarded Bristle
2.) PL 1v1'ing an ulted Troll without ever popping W
3.) PL rushing Diffusal 2 --> heart with no manta or other attack speed items
4.) Fighting into 2 BKBs on their carries instead of kiting them and waiting the BKB's out with a lineup *designed* to kite (mirana can leap away, storm has his fuckery, PL can W and walk away, MoM Jugg can walk away from sheer movespeed, jakiro is in the back anyway). Could have initiated after the BKB's are down with Orchid Storm or whatever.
That other team had 0 initiation potential. The only way your team loses is by mindlessly fighting into BKB's...and that's exactly what your guys did. And clearly Jugg overestimated his damage potential trying to omnislash a full team with a creep wave.
You are mistaken if you thought your team, carried by a Jugg with those items and a PL with those items could outcarry Toll + Luna. It wasn't a throw; it was an inevitability unless your team plays with a high level of coordination and communication, baiting out BKB's and Troll ult, then re-initiating with Omni as the orchid target of choice.
And of course, you also had nowhere near the caliber of items you would have needed to have at 40 minutes either. Only an Orchid and BKB as your completed items isn't enough. I understand the thinking behind the BKB, but it really fucked up your killing potential. You ran out of mana in like 4 jumps at the last team fight (1 jump in, 2 jumps around troll, 1 jump out is all you could manage) which is just a tragic situation for any Storm. Perhaps a better approach to the game in general would have been to constantly go hunting for pickoffs and get your bloodstone online. But I didn't watch the entire replay so IDK if that wasn't an option. But yea, I feel like Bloodstone is essential unless you can get a sheep up fast. Even then...Bloodstone is your sustain, you know? idk.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1103120901
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1107902331
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1116643169
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1150614034
my last 4 with her. good fucking hero.
like any hero of this type (someone who wants to be in close but is fairly squishy), you have to pick your moments. vs heavy CC you either need to be patient enough to wait for the big CC to come out so you can go in and cause havoc or buy a linken's/bkb so you can go in with impunity.
understand your windows of opportunity and exploit them. until you understand your windows of opportunity, you will feed with the hero.
I'm going to assume you meant how is her blink better than AMs? Her blink is faster and longer range. AM's blink is shorter, longer cast time, but has a 1s lower CD.
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