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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Sadly not.
Tracer really teaches you rythms and the CDs of dangerous skills, Dehaka can do little against that.
Patience is a virtue. We haven't had a real competition in NA since Korea (?) in a couple days we'll know where C9 stands, or falls.
Watching Rentaro for the first time I realize I'm racist to some degree, I just assumed she was white from her voice.
You are right in that respect - C9 are basically guaranteed to qualify because there are 8 slots and there aren't 8 teams that could fill those slots. And they do always perform much better at LAN events than offline events.
I guess people's concern is simply the fact that they don't seem to even care about winning. Between Arthelon playing League of Legends more than HotS, Dunk being incredibly laid back on THH and no-one seemingly looking at the meta outside of NA you really get the impression they have lost the fire for victory. Dig seemed to have taken the lesson from Korea that they need to practice and play a lot more if they are to win, whereas C9 seemed to have taken away the lesson of "We can do decently without trying, let's settle for that". There is also a thing about trying all the time - you can always improve your play, and by not caring / trying /half of the time they are losing out on good useful practice.
And they do have real hero pool issues. Part of that comes from the fact they don't play hero league at all, so don't get to learn new heroes, but it's held them back a lot it feels. They didn't have Greymane when everyone else had figured him out, and they ran Jaina way too much when there were better alternatives around. Also because they don't play outside of tournaments and scrims it feels like their mechanical skills have atrophied - K1Pro used to be one of the best ranged assassins in the world, but nowadays every time I've seen him I've been unimpressed. Last time he played Jaina even Zoia was making jokes about his timing being completely off...
I guess people's concern is simply the fact that they don't seem to even care about winning. Between Arthelon playing League of Legends more than HotS, Dunk being incredibly laid back on THH and no-one seemingly looking at the meta outside of NA you really get the impression they have lost the fire for victory. Dig seemed to have taken the lesson from Korea that they need to practice and play a lot more if they are to win, whereas C9 seemed to have taken away the lesson of "We can do decently without trying, let's settle for that". There is also a thing about trying all the time - you can always improve your play, and by not caring / trying /half of the time they are losing out on good useful practice.
And they do have real hero pool issues. Part of that comes from the fact they don't play hero league at all, so don't get to learn new heroes, but it's held them back a lot it feels. They didn't have Greymane when everyone else had figured him out, and they ran Jaina way too much when there were better alternatives around. Also because they don't play outside of tournaments and scrims it feels like their mechanical skills have atrophied - K1Pro used to be one of the best ranged assassins in the world, but nowadays every time I've seen him I've been unimpressed. Last time he played Jaina even Zoia was making jokes about his timing being completely off...
Ronabo
Member
So you're saying no one here can tell me that they see the FPS when they use the ctrl+alt+f in the game?
Never tried, but I can when I get home from work.
Robottiimu2000
Member
Heyhey! Hows things?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
no, it means I see the fps as usual and that I can't help.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wiz is streaming as Naventic Wiz?!
Dam i called it
nvt face turn complete
Could be coach joke tho, nvt_wiz is a known troll
Face turn still complete, new day rocks
He's been playing ranged w/ glau so prob replacing bige if it's happening
Man even the idea that he could stick around in na is prob more exciting than anything from that summit
nvt face turn complete
Could be coach joke tho, nvt_wiz is a known troll
Face turn still complete, new day rocks
He's been playing ranged w/ glau so prob replacing bige if it's happening
Man even the idea that he could stick around in na is prob more exciting than anything from that summit
Dropping bigempct is a bad idea IMO, if that's the plan. He joined, they started winning again. We haven't seen Wiz really do anything but stream yet. He may be the second coming, but I'd hesitate to just drop bige like that and don't think they will. I'd be shocked. That'd be some pretty shitty stuff after having him stiff Team Blaze just a month ago.
He's hardly been in there long enough to be dropping him already surely?
Saying that, if it's a personality thing then they would have to release him. KLike Dig's dreamteam they assembled after Blizzcon last year, if the personalities don't work together than it doesn't matter how well you were doing.
(I'm going to use that to Segway to a point I think a lot of folks overlooked about Blizzcon last year - Dignitas managed to come in second place whilst suffering even worse team issues than Tempostorm. They just kept them better under wraps. The fact that ADRD wasn't saying anything and wouldn't even shot call during matches makes them getting second place fairly impressive!).
Saying that, if it's a personality thing then they would have to release him. KLike Dig's dreamteam they assembled after Blizzcon last year, if the personalities don't work together than it doesn't matter how well you were doing.
(I'm going to use that to Segway to a point I think a lot of folks overlooked about Blizzcon last year - Dignitas managed to come in second place whilst suffering even worse team issues than Tempostorm. They just kept them better under wraps. The fact that ADRD wasn't saying anything and wouldn't even shot call during matches makes them getting second place fairly impressive!).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That was when Athero took over shotcalling middle of the game, and explained some of the miscommunication that even cost them a game against C9 in the groupstage.
Interestingly he's listed as a Tank on Fnatic's roster but he's more flex with Breez playing tank most of the time, he's even been playing sylvanas for them.
Interestingly he's listed as a Tank on Fnatic's roster but he's more flex with Breez playing tank most of the time, he's even been playing sylvanas for them.
AFAIK it's not. Mac and bige were pretty good buds, and Ren/Fan talk about him a lot as well. Maybe wiz is just hanging out in Naventic til his month or whatever is up (after Summer season, I assume), and then they'll take stock and make a move with him or he'll join someone else and finally get his shot?
I think bige and Tomster are nice gets. They are just coming into their own and still improving...you already know what you've got with Arth for better or worse. That's all assuming the issue is Arth, though. It could just as easily be k1pro or iDream for all we know at this point. And like we've talked about a bunch, the biggest issue is the arrogance and indifference. Will dropping Arth change what was already that way before Arth?
They could also grab wiz themselves, depending on what happens with the NVT thing. That'd be pretty interesting.
That looks awesome...but why assume Deathwing? Couldn't it be any dragon?
Whoever it is, dis goin b gud.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Alexstazsa is more known for her human form or the prince
Dunk on Twitter: The thread about us on reddit is interesting. I find it fascinating what people's impressions are compared to my own.
Caff: @DunkTrain it's the same 5 people constantly making hate threads past couple months. You know you're legit when you have dedicated haters
I didn't see anything in there that was really hating on them. And you know, if you'd speak out on the issues people are seeing, maybe they wouldn't draw conclusions????? Logic? Hello??
Dreamhack casters and groups:
Jake "SolidJake" Kulinski
Jaycie "Gillyweed" Gluck
James "Kaelaris" Carrol
Wade "Dreadnaught" Penfold
Josh "JHow" Howard
Jared "Zoia" Eggleston
Group A
Team Naventic
Panda Global
TNC
Cloud9
Group B
Tempo Storm
Astral Authority
COGnitive Gaming
Gale Force Esports
Funny how they're all J's aside from Dread.
Caff: @DunkTrain it's the same 5 people constantly making hate threads past couple months. You know you're legit when you have dedicated haters
I didn't see anything in there that was really hating on them. And you know, if you'd speak out on the issues people are seeing, maybe they wouldn't draw conclusions????? Logic? Hello??
Dreamhack casters and groups:
Jake "SolidJake" Kulinski
Jaycie "Gillyweed" Gluck
James "Kaelaris" Carrol
Wade "Dreadnaught" Penfold
Josh "JHow" Howard
Jared "Zoia" Eggleston
Group A
Team Naventic
Panda Global
TNC
Cloud9
Group B
Tempo Storm
Astral Authority
COGnitive Gaming
Gale Force Esports
Funny how they're all J's aside from Dread.
A friend has pointed out it may not be a dragon at all. What's shown in the video is a farsight like ability - the area is revealed under the shadow. Maybe it's a dragon summoning Orc or something.
(I really hope not, we behave enough orcs and it would be a real let down).
Still don;'t get how they would implement death wing in the game given the size issues, but would be cool if it was him! Maybe Nefarion as he was in human form more?
(I really hope not, we behave enough orcs and it would be a real let down).
Still don;'t get how they would implement death wing in the game given the size issues, but would be cool if it was him! Maybe Nefarion as he was in human form more?
From reddit re: Wiz:
Wiz just said on stream he was going to coach for Naventic again (he already coached for them for World) and will come to NA soon (need VISA and stuff). It's actually pretty big with the new rules about coaching in tournaments.
He also teased that he would only be coach for a while and then would play but he didn't say more (we don't even know if he would play for Naventic, but it seems likely).
That's kind of dude's whole problem though.
He's brilliant, no lie, but he always thinks his plans are more clever than everyone else. It's almost like he thinks he's a video game character and he's pulling a long con, constantly...and for a time he was more clever. Now that he's seen there are stronger, more clever mfers out in the jungle, though, you'd think he'd be doubling down...not barely practicing, losing to teams he should stomp, and then being confused about the team's fans questioning their approach on reddit.
Bold prediction/hot taek time: If C9 continues to flop, Dunktrain is going to go the way of Jake in public perception.
Wiz just said on stream he was going to coach for Naventic again (he already coached for them for World) and will come to NA soon (need VISA and stuff). It's actually pretty big with the new rules about coaching in tournaments.
He also teased that he would only be coach for a while and then would play but he didn't say more (we don't even know if he would play for Naventic, but it seems likely).
That's kind of dude's whole problem though.
He's brilliant, no lie, but he always thinks his plans are more clever than everyone else. It's almost like he thinks he's a video game character and he's pulling a long con, constantly...and for a time he was more clever. Now that he's seen there are stronger, more clever mfers out in the jungle, though, you'd think he'd be doubling down...not barely practicing, losing to teams he should stomp, and then being confused about the team's fans questioning their approach on reddit.
Bold prediction/hot taek time: If C9 continues to flop, Dunktrain is going to go the way of Jake in public perception.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I know it's part of C9s thing to be laid back and relaxed, but the recent results speak for themselves. People weren't hating in the thread, they were discussing that it's a bit worrying to see multiple issues playing out on Twitter, THH and on Reddit from the team. When one of your players is playing LoL more than HotS then something is up.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Except you of course, aren't Khaldor and Kaelaris also involved? They are already there anyway.
That's jacist and of course they have a token D.
I think Dunktrain would be better off being an analyst, myself. I never thought he was the strongest player, just a good strategist. I always felt Dread was the better player (and also the better shotcaller, ironically, lol).
I've seen plenty of Jake smearing on reddit too. Not to the degree Gilly gets, but the Jake = Cooby and glee at Jake getting left off of casts isn't just a GAF thing...and he got left off of those for a reason, IMO. Part of it was people growing more negative towards him since last summer, part of it was Dread's emergence.
I've seen plenty of Jake smearing on reddit too. Not to the degree Gilly gets, but the Jake = Cooby and glee at Jake getting left off of casts isn't just a GAF thing...and he got left off of those for a reason, IMO. Part of it was people growing more negative towards him since last summer, part of it was Dread's emergence.
Agree with you Alur completely. It's time for them to put up or shut up, and the constant smugness is very wearing. I don't get how one of the best teams in the world can be proud of the fact they haven't watched any games from other regions. They got lucky at Blizzcon and were able to ban out the Tyrael every match against Dig - what happens next time when they aren't able to do that?
I don't think anyone here hates C9, think we all want them to do well - it's just they look very shaky right now and instead of seemingly doing the work to pick things up they are relaxing and continuing to treat it like nothing.
I don't think anyone here hates C9, think we all want them to do well - it's just they look very shaky right now and instead of seemingly doing the work to pick things up they are relaxing and continuing to treat it like nothing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Seriously, 3 days (!). 3 days from now we can start having this discussion.
I never even liked C9 (still rooted for them during Tempo Stomp), yet here I am constantly defending them. There's just no point in this discussion when all we have to go by are qualifiers and an actual competition being right around the corner.
Also Jake missed the memo into becoming analytical caster and his role is just overcrowded, Zoia got it.
I never even liked C9 (still rooted for them during Tempo Stomp), yet here I am constantly defending them. There's just no point in this discussion when all we have to go by are qualifiers and an actual competition being right around the corner.
Also Jake missed the memo into becoming analytical caster and his role is just overcrowded, Zoia got it.
The game is dead, that's what the secret summer HotS summit is about - didn't anyone tell you? ;-(
Overwatch is naturally going to draw players away for a short while I think, but game is still alive and kicking here.
BTW, did anyone catch that BKB dropped down to Rank 5 on his stream yesterday? Makes me feel good about my disasterous run!
Overwatch is naturally going to draw players away for a short while I think, but game is still alive and kicking here.
BTW, did anyone catch that BKB dropped down to Rank 5 on his stream yesterday? Makes me feel good about my disasterous run!
I feel betrayed by them, to be honest, in the same way I would if my favorite sports team traded their best player...cause that's kind of what they did. I can live with that, because they got a good player in return, but then...
Basically, as someone who supports NA teams they were expected to be the beacon for this region. Show up and provide real competition to every region, including the Korean and Chinese teams. They were middling at Spring regionals and instead of being motivated afterward, it seems like they've regressed. The only team that seems to have it together in the entire Western world now is Dignitas. Naventic is not there, despite being on top in NA.
To me that sucks. It makes me want them to blow it up so they can get a fresh outlook and do something with all that promise instead of tease us with possibilities and let us down with a lack of work ethic.
Basically, as someone who supports NA teams they were expected to be the beacon for this region. Show up and provide real competition to every region, including the Korean and Chinese teams. They were middling at Spring regionals and instead of being motivated afterward, it seems like they've regressed. The only team that seems to have it together in the entire Western world now is Dignitas. Naventic is not there, despite being on top in NA.
To me that sucks. It makes me want them to blow it up so they can get a fresh outlook and do something with all that promise instead of tease us with possibilities and let us down with a lack of work ethic.
Apparently you, Dunktrain, and Caff are the only ones who feel this way. Jake has talked about it 3 times in the past several days, for example. I don't know how you can deny it's a legit thing, man.
Even if everything you say is 100% true, where is the fucking pride and killer instinct? MVP rattling off like 34 straight wins, C9 can't even make it through a tournament filled with 85% scrubs. It's hard to defend that.
Jake loving E-SPORTS and talking about catering on THH is kinda endemic of his problem- his MLG background will continue to haunt him until he sheds the bad lessons he learned from it and actually embraces being a person, instead of an empty suit.
Alexstrasza as a support. Would absolutely love.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'll gladly discuss the downfall of C9 when it actually happens. After Dreamhack y'all can plaster me with 'told ya so's until then the discussion will remain pointless to me.
Their work ethics never bothered me too much, I'm not a fan after all, especially if it means Dig gets the chance to body them next HGC.
On the other hand I still don't like NVT even with Erho gone.
Having 2 pros on the team helps, it's when he has other casters as guests you can go ahead and skip an episode
I've come to realize the reason they keep trying to round hole-square peg Ty/Tass is the lack of actual healers to compensate for it in MMing. They need to add like 5 more at this point to compensate for losing 2 (in that MM queue.)
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