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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I've only won 1 of 9 games with Gmayne but I love him nonetheless.

Unless you have a whacky comp tailored for Monstrosity I have to categorically disagree. Even with the symbiote build you never replace a member in combat to the same degree Ultimate Evolution does if you have a proper target for it.

 

[brian!]

Yeah the vision one is nice too

 

[Alur]

Just watched some middling Thrall play on stream with the 4000 games Abathur streamer.

 

[Milly79]

Just watched some middling Thrall play on stream with the 4000 games Abathur streamer.

 

[Alur]

Can't believe you guys won that game. Was looking bleak. And that enemy Uther's build lol

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Unless you have a whacky comp tailored for Monstrosity I have to categorically disagree. Even with the symbiote build you never replace a member in combat to the same degree Ultimate Evolution does if you have a proper target for it.

It depends on the flow of the game. There's absolutely no reason to trade having enormous pressure in a lane during team fights and objectives with certain comps. Evolution is clearly the better ult, but sometimes your team can't teamfight worth shit until 16 (or worse, after 16), you have a shit person left standing to copy, you burn it during the wrong engage and then a better engage pops when you're on cooldown, or you miss the 2 assassins in a bush when you copy and it dies in 2 seconds. I mean, we're getting into the minutiae of the way games play out here, but unfortunately those are the kind of choices you have to make at 10 because each of his ults are about pressure and you have to guess which pressure will be needed 15 minutes down the line. I don't imagine there's much point for Monstrosity outside of QM though, but I haven't bothered with Ranked in almost a year.

I will say I barely pick Monstrosity anymore myself because if the other team has a specialist with a brain it will be dead in 20 seconds, but mostly I pick UE now because the Mine build is fun and strong and your best bet for consistency in QM.

 

[Ketch]

Yeah the vision one is nice too

The vision talent is op

Like the actual vision part is meh, but being able to attack people when you shouldn't even be able to see them is real good. Really makes the build when you go for attack bonus and range on w with the thorn heroic.

Even in the early game if you start trading in the early game the enemy has no where to go except behind their wall.

The reduced cool down and mana talent is pretty decent against bosses or map mechanics because you can have 100% uptime on your bonus damage.... But you kind of need to go 100% Pve build to get the most out of it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It depends on the flow of the game. There's absolutely no reason to trade having enormous pressure in a lane during team fights and objectives with certain comps. Evolution is clearly the better ult, but sometimes your team can't teamfight worth shit until 16 (or worse, after 16), you have a shit person left standing to copy, you burn it during the wrong engage and then a better engage pops when you're on cooldown, or you miss the 2 assassins in a bush when you copy and it dies in 2 seconds. I mean, we're getting into the minutiae of the way games play out here, but unfortunately those are the kind of choices you have to make at 10 because each of his ults are about pressure and you have to guess which pressure will be needed 15 minutes down the line. I don't imagine there's much point for Monstrosity outside of QM though, but I haven't bothered with Ranked in almost a year.

I will say I barely pick Monstrosity anymore myself because if the other team has a specialist with a brain it will be dead in 20 seconds, but mostly I pick UE now because the Mine build is fun and strong and your best bet for consistency in QM.

Okay I can see what you mean but like you said with monstrosity on the other side you just dedicate 1 rotation to it every once in awhile and get rid of it. Bad Abathurs won't even be able to keep it alive in PvE w/o babysitting it constantly.
On my team I'll always prefer aba to go into into UE since worst case I can ask him to UE when I ping myself.
Haven't picked monstrosity since they gave UE the ridiculous CD.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Okay I can see what you mean but like you said with monstrosity on the other side you just dedicate 1 rotation to it every once in awhile and get rid of it. Bad Abathurs won't even be able to keep it alive in PvE w/o babysitting it constantly.
On my team I'll always prefer aba to go into into UE since worst case I can ask him to UE when I ping myself.
Haven't picked monstrosity since they gave UE the ridiculous CD.

Yeah I mean the catch 22 is always that during an objective you should be on a teammate, not babysitting the thing, and if they send someone to kill it, that's even more reason you should be on a teammate during the teamfight.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yeah I mean the catch 22 is always that during an objective you should be on a teammate, not babysitting the thing, and if they send someone to kill it, that's even more reason you should be on a teammate during the teamfight.

that's presuming they need to kill it during a forced teamfight and presuming aba isn't an idiot and babysitting it anyway.

 

[brian!]

The vision talent is op

Like the actual vision part is meh, but being able to attack people when you shouldn't even be able to see them is real good. Really makes the build when you go for attack bonus and range on w with the thorn heroic.

Even in the early game if you start trading in the early game the enemy has no where to go except behind their wall.

The reduced cool down and mana talent is pretty decent against bosses or map mechanics because you can have 100% uptime on your bonus damage.... But you kind of need to go 100% Pve build to get the most out of it.

Yeah, i really value the waveclear on w tho even without the 7, like i feel like it's one or the other both is overkill

Id probably end up getting greymane if li ming isnt nerfed further he really fucks her shit up, i went gcannon/missle against one and it really was a terrible idea lol

 

[TurboLibre]

Yeah I mean the catch 22 is always that during an objective you should be on a teammate, not babysitting the thing, and if they send someone to kill it, that's even more reason you should be on a teammate during the teamfight.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of a pumped up Monstrosity in a team fight though. Strangely, he can also gank very well too since most people won't realize how strong he can be until it's too late. And once you get the dig talent, you can effectively back into the hall to heal up, so you can keep him on the map for a long time.

Man. Monstrosity is so good. But top hat build is a hard sell lately.

 

[brian!]

I think itd be good if we had 4 lane maps but otherwise unless ue isnt viable it's kind of redundant

 

[Milly79]

Brian always thinking outside the box

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I've veered Monstrosities into team fights before, they certainly live longer than UE clones, but I find the only time really worth engaging an enemy with it is when they send an assassin alone after it in a lane instead of a specialist. They basically think they're just killing a Merc and suddenly realize they're at 20% health and start running and I kill them with a burst+needle.

Dig talent is situationally great but there's no way in hell I'm going symbiote build and not getting Hivemind.

 

[TurboLibre]

I've veered Monstrosities into team fights before, they certainly live longer than UE clones, but I find the only time really worth engaging an enemy with it is when they send an assassin alone after it in a lane instead of a specialist. They basically think they're just killing a Merc and suddenly realize they're at 20% health and start running and I kill them with a burst+needle.

Dig talent is situationally great but there's no way in hell I'm going symbiote build and not getting Hivemind.

Hivemind is much better. But in QM I'm often left with teams that don't know how to use it well. Normal circumstance I'll chose that one, but if the team is scattered and my top hat's aren't doing much, that's when I throw a hail mary and go dig.

 

[Alur]

Who is this Abathur? Is he a new hero? I can't recognize any conversations that don't include the best hero

Spoiler

not in

the game, the dead man Xul.

Does Xul like Abathur? Will they be a symbiotic pairing and evolve a true monstrosity? Or do you think combining them will be a toxic nest that will make you want to stab your eyes out?

EDIT: Carbot video on Deckard Cain in HOTS. LOL.

 

[Ketch]

Yeah, i really value the waveclear on w tho even without the 7, like i feel like it's one or the other both is overkill

Id probably end up getting greymane if li ming isnt nerfed further he really fucks her shit up, i went gcannon/missle against one and it really was a terrible idea lol

Yea I agree it's over kill on minion waves, but it's too good vs mercs and bosses and other map mechanics. I still prefer the vision talent though, because Id rather not build her for wave clear since she takes for ever to get across the map. I feel like she can either be sylvanas or raynor.

 

[brian!]

Yeah id skip 7 personally cause i like the 50% dmg one

 

[Ketch]

7 is bonus poison damage? It's great in contested immortal and shrine fights and for clearing waves. But yea you lose a lot... It would be cool if sylvanas could chose between bonus hero damage or better poison at her lvl 7

 

[brian!]

The 4 hits of 50 after the w vs. The lots more poison on non-heroes

W/ the lvl 1 i think i remember rw clearing casters at least at 10, but it was ai so the levels were skewed. I didnt try this and i dont know the range on w, but if it's global you could probably just repeatedly tap w to clear waves that you've tagged, i doubt it exists this way though

Also what's abby's dig? I thought the locust spawning thing was standard

 

[TurboLibre]

Also what's abby's dig? I thought the locust spawning thing was standard

It allows your Monstrosity to dig the same as Abba. So you can escape, ambush, or split push on your own. He can even heal im the hall if needed. The x2 Symbiote is better in most cases and the spawner is alright for distractions, but dig can be a game changer in specific situations.

 

[brian!]

Monstrosity gank sounds pretty terrifying tbh

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Jake ditching HoTS and Cooby, Town Hall Overwatch Ep. 2 already. Gaem so dead.

 

[Ketch]

Good riddance

 

[Maledict]

Jake ditching HoTS and Cooby, Town Hall Overwatch Ep. 2 already. Gaem so dead.

Serious or tongue in cheek?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Oh gaem is definitely dead

 

[Fuzzery]

Good games, first game I couldn't do anything as Sonya and our Diablo just hard engaged without respect for anything (including talent tiers and levels).

Second game I just figured if we had that much vision and lockdown they wouldn't be able to turnin once. Also, I've gone 6/6 with Zeratul in HL since I read the post on the Glaurung build and combo: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...ecuting_the_glaurung_combo_on_vorpal_zeratul/ so I figured I'd see if I could extend the win streak there

You know, i've played against rehgars twice now with a no healer comp, it actually works surprisingly well because you then have the dps to just kill things before he can sustain them

 

[Alur]

Serious or tongue in cheek?

Half serious. Jake did start an Overwatch podcast (which he named Town Hall Overwatch for whatever reason - branding I guess) with another guy. But he's still doing THH.

I wonder if he uploads that podcast to iTunes before the end of the week?

 

[kirblar]

What are the big competitive shooter games? I know of Halo/CS:GO - are there others?

 

[Alur]

No clue, honestly. Never really liked anything outside of Halo 2 until Overwatch.

(A) I suck at them and (B) they make me motion sick. Somehow Overwatch doesn't and it's has supports and "area-aim" (no clue what to call them, less precise?) heroes so I can at least contribute so I dig it. Not a real ton of headshots outside of Widowmaker and Hanzo is a plus too.

 

[Zafir]

No clue, honestly. Never really liked anything outside of Halo 2 until Overwatch.

(A) I suck at them and (B) they make me motion sick. Somehow Overwatch doesn't and it's has supports and "area-aim" (no clue what to call them, less precise?) heroes so I can at least contribute so I dig it. Not a real ton of headshots outside of Widowmaker and Hanzo is a plus too.

I know that feel.

I'm basically playing supports and other defency kind of heroes. xD

 

[kirblar]

No clue, honestly. Never really liked anything outside of Halo 2 until Overwatch.

(A) I suck at them and (B) they make me motion sick. Somehow Overwatch doesn't and it's has supports and "area-aim" (no clue what to call them, less precise?) heroes so I can at least contribute so I dig it. Not a real ton of headshots outside of Widowmaker and Hanzo is a plus too.

I think they're going to end up needing to do Draft for competitive play eventually to both stick out and to help viewers.Halo,CS - everyone's identical. When you start having unique units, hotswapping suddenly becomes a nightmare for viewers/commentators to track.

You could do a draft with locked characters, and you could also do a draft where teams can swap into the remaining non-banned heroes, but w/ a time/rate restriction on how often they can change up. But not having duplicates is going to be important for onscreen clarity.

The issue, of course, is that you're going to have pushback from ex-TF2 people coming into the game. But that game's not pushed competitively, and you don't need to change the FFA casual mode at all - especially since all heroes are free.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

As only a watcher so far, that put me off the most. Seeing unique characters in multiples even on the same team.

It'd be fine if the characters were more generic or slightly customizable.

 

[kirblar]

As only a watcher so far, that put me off the most. Seeing unique characters in multiples even on the same team.

It'd be fine if the characters were more generic or slightly customizable.

Yeah. I had the same reaction when playing. TF2 (the game everyone keeps pointing two) has generic units and is not a competitive spectator game.

 

[brian!]

resurgence drama is prtty classic esports
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soc1cd?new_post=true

diamond did another little article about regionals, this time on players: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/504536-10-players-to-watch-na-spring-championship
league still referred to as "other games" lol

nice article on blizz foley artists: http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/2/24/11003640/blizzard-sound-design-heroes-of-the-storm

i am redditt

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's probably smart to focus on something tangible, how much money is there for the 5th or 6th best team in NA?

 

[Ketch]

Yea I'm not convinced overwatch has got much of an esports future despite how badly lots of people seem to be pushing it. TF2 has had like a decade to develop a scene and the scene still pales in comparison to many other fps games. And unlike hots overwatch doesn't really do THAT much different then tf2.

Add on to that the small size of the fps esports to begin with and overwatch has got a small subset of a small subset of a small subset.

I think it's not very likely to get anywhere near as big as hots...... And hots already isn't going to light the esports world on fire.


But you know the way people digest media now means there's a market (even if it's a small one) for everything.



Edit: damn, no McIntyre in that article. Get schrekt

Edit2: also that author is a noob.

 

[Milly79]

Inb4 the Alur defense force

Gilly is the only guest this week.

 

[brian!]

author is manager for stellar lotus so yeh he's a noob

 

[Zafir]

Yea I'm not convinced overwatch has got much of an esports future despite how badly lots of people seem to be pushing it. TF2 has had like a decade to develop a scene and the scene still pales in comparison to many other fps games. And unlike hots overwatch doesn't really do THAT much different then tf2.

Add on to that the small size of the fps esports to begin with and overwatch has got a small subset of a small subset of a small subset.

I think it's not very likely to get anywhere near as big as hots...... And hots already isn't going to light the esports world on fire.


But you know the way people digest media now means there's a market (even if it's a small one) for everything.



Edit: damn, no McIntyre in that article. Get schrekt

Edit2: also that author is a noob.

I don't think it's fair to compare it to TF2 personally.

Esports was still kind of small when TF2 first came out, and no one really tried to push or promote it.

I think Blizzard backing it will at least make some kind of scene. How big is another question entirely.

 

[brian!]

it'll probably be alright if you can detect skill by watching it
isnt cs huge

dont forget about the hit show town hall overwatch too

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Oh man this match, god awful.

almost 30 minutes and at least 10 minutes of those with the opposing team's core at 28%, both teams utterly awful. We were only leading because we stole bosses twice. They 3 for nothing us like 3 times late game once with a curse going and a boss available and they don't get anything out of them. Just decide to split push.
Third attempt we get to their boss too late lane has no keep so we have 2 options left. Defend or rush their core. What does half my team decide to do, to get the tribute...

One of the worst matches I've ever had. People on either team, overextending, not focusing, running out of the gates 1v3, etc., etc. If we'd won I'd at least completed the daily, now I have to play at least another game.

Had a sweet moment with Gmayne though were I Worgened knowing I'd be dead against Lunara in Human form then disengage directly to a well and tap it just before dying.

 

[brian!]

ok tested lunara some more

not only can you globally activate w on minions indefinitely w/ the lvl 1 talent, the talent itself preps your lvl 7 dmg talent so you will always get 8 shots of 60+ dmg in lane, definitely the best talent at lvl 1 imo

 

[kirblar]

ok tested lunara some more

not only can you globally activate w on minions indefinitely w/ the lvl 1 talent, the talent itself preps your lvl 7 dmg talent so you will always get 8 shots of 60+ dmg in lane, definitely the best talent at lvl 1 imo

Wait, she can store an extra set of charges? Or do you mean "stored set" + fresh W.

 

[Ketch]

but only until you do any damage to a hero... which would in theory be any time you're not in a lane alone or taking a boss/objective uncontested. then it doesn't do anything. I agree that it's a really good talent, especially on like BOE and shrines. But I don't think it's the best lvl 1 talent, maybe tied for first or slightly behind the vision talent.... but only because teamfighting > PvE and any kind of split pushing is kind of counter productive to the hero since no mount.

You'd have to actively not attack enemy heroes to really abuse it.

 

[brian!]

i mean like auto a minion, hit w (you get the lvl 7 and 16 procs), and your w is on a 2 second cd so you effectively can get 8 hits of lvl 7 or 12 seconds of lvl 16, you dont store it (i didnt test, im assuming it resets) but you can basically get a few more usages out of it on demand if you need to

the value is all over a period time so the opponent kinda doesnt have to sit there and take all those crits to the face plus it's probably harder to do as the game goes on, but laning-wise it seems strong as fuk
like mainly the idea of coming in hot w/ the crits/range and being able to extend the time frame on demand and not waiting 10 seconds

@ketch, the way im describing it is for hitting heroes, get the w proc on a minion -> 2 sec w cd -> 8 lvl 7 hits, all you have to do is auto a minion once or q it if ur feeling sc4red

vision is rad for sure though

but even if you couldnt do that I think the talent is nice for the ability to waveclear while peacing out of the lane
theoretically you could tag a boss with it and just contribute dmg for ur team while soaking (a lot more if you invest in the lvl 7 pve talent), but I dunno if that's something anyone would really want to do

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wow the people at THH are rude today. Everyone is just talking over Gilly, when she somehow managed to become the most knowledgeable of the bunch, except possibly Zoia.

Gilly, who is constantly being made fun of because of her supposed looks over substance.

 

[Ketch]

hmmm... yea I see what you mean now I think.

attack minion, w, attack hero x4, w, attack hero x4.

what i was thinking of was attacking a boss/merc, and then W on cooldown for bonus attack damage and speed. you can do it on the shrine minions too, and it's really affect to just hit each one once.

edit: gilly is the bomb, and THH sucks donkey dick

 

[Alur]

As only a watcher so far, that put me off the most. Seeing unique characters in multiples even on the same team.

It'd be fine if the characters were more generic or slightly customizable.

Yeah. I had the same reaction when playing. TF2 (the game everyone keeps pointing two) has generic units and is not a competitive spectator game.

I dig the swapping and multiples. Haven't really had an issue following it while watching or playing, though I do wish you could have no more than two multiples. That said...

Yea I'm not convinced overwatch has got much of an esports future despite how badly lots of people seem to be pushing it.

I am inclined to agree with this, though not because of the game but because of Blizzard. They have once again bungled the HOTS lead-up to a world championship in this game, and Overwatch itself releases before summer and they claim to want to push esports hard for the game...yet they have no official tournaments, rulesets, or anything else lined up that I know of. They've got four months to line that out and get something in place before Blizzcon. I'm just betting it'll be rushed and will kill that kind of like HOTS was early on as well.

it'll probably be alright if you can detect skill by watching it
isnt cs huge

dont forget about the hit show town hall overwatch too

I think Overwatch has that going for it over HOTS. You can detect skill and great plays much more easily than in HOTS, plus there's the derp plays like "I just hit my ult and we won" that you already have with HOTS. It's kind of the best of both worlds in that regard. I feel like the insane strength of the ults will likely make or break it for viewers. I find the ease of use of some of them a little off-putting, but it's hard to tell what people want. All I know is whenever people ult in OW lots of people die cause they are strong as fuck.

I still think it has a chance to be bigger than HOTS competitively easily, but that's not really saying a whole lot at this point. Just depends on if Blizzard supports it properly or lets it waste away once it launches.