I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Nevermind this post is dumb.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah but then it doesn't matter whether they pick Jaina over a hero they are good at.
I'm not a good uther, piano makes me mess up ability placement and I'm fairly bad at juggling CDs, probably why I love Li Ming.
But when it comes to meta picks I'm glad about denial even. When the meta is healthy and there's lots of almost equally viable picks then pick to your strengths but when a couple characters are busted don't let the opponents have all of them.
I can't speak from a good rank perspective though.
I'm not a good uther, piano makes me mess up ability placement and I'm fairly bad at juggling CDs, probably why I love Li Ming.
But when it comes to meta picks I'm glad about denial even. When the meta is healthy and there's lots of almost equally viable picks then pick to your strengths but when a couple characters are busted don't let the opponents have all of them.
I can't speak from a good rank perspective though.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
That post was dumb, but I was just saying I don't mind anyone picking a hero they dont know how to play if they know how to play the game. That's why I pick xul. That's why I don't understand why the person who picks rexxar is never there for team fights or objectives, or doesn't know what soaking is.
I'm surprised at him being tops plus it only being 5500 games. Thought he'd be played way more than that but it has just been 3 days I guess.
Looks like most popular build overall is this so far:
- 1) Shade (Backlash has a smidge higher w/r with about 600 less games picked)
- 4) Death's Reach (Jailors has 6% higher w/r with half the # of games picked)
- 7) Harvest Vitality (Rathma's Blessing has highest w/r by about 2% with 500 less games picked)
- 10) Poison Nova (Skeletal Mages has 6% higher w/r with half the games picked)
- 13) Decrepify (Corpse Explosion has a 7% higher w/r with roughly ~40% of the games picked as Decrepify)
- 16) Amplify Damage (Skeleton Mastery has a 6% higher w/r with about half the games picked)
- 20) Bone Spear (Has 5% higher w/r than Mortal Wound (surprise!), but Raised Mage has highest w/r @ 70% with 454 games picked)
If you swap to Diamond and Master only:
- 1) Shade (Backlash has 1% higher winrate with 100 less games picked)
- 4) Death's Reach (Jailors has 5% higher winrate with 1/3rd of the games picked)
- 7) Harvest Vitality (Rathma's Blessing has almost ~2% higher winrate with about 29 less games picked)
- 10) Poison Nova (Skeleton Mages has 3% higher winrate at 1/3rd the games picked)
- 13) Decrepify (Corpse Explosion has 5% higher winrate with 1/5th the games picked)
- 16) Flowing Wounds/Amplify Damage tied (Skeleton Mastery has 3% higher winrate with 1/3rd the games picked)
- 20) Mortal Wound (Bone Spear has nearly 10% higher winrate with just 16 less games picked)
I was about to post my surprise at his winrate because I feel like his skeleton talents (sans the ult and the heal on raise at 7) were lackluster...but they have the highest winrate of all. Kinda funny. And it mostly holds true at the higher levels as well.
I am still shocked he is at 58%+ just because he's melee. He felt fine to me, OP in some spots and fodder in others, but nothing like what Li-Ming or KT did on release...yet here he is, around the same winrate. Go figure.
At least he doesn't suck I guess. Don't think it'd take much to cripple him nerf wise so it'll be interesting to see if he is really this strong still in two weeks (assuming he gets the same amount of time to breathe as Li-Ming) and how they'll tackle him.
EDIT: If you include all hero levels he has 12000+ games and is still at 57.1% winrate. Guess that answers that. He's p legit.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I can vouch for the skeleton heal talent, shit is legit. I also do jailers because its guaranteed damage, but range against certain comps. I almost always go the slow for the lvl 1 talent for greymanes.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Do Gmaynes even go in against Xuls? That sounds dumb when bone prison is just gonna get them killed.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
But prison requires almost melee range, two seconds, and curse to be up if I want to engage without getting back in melee range. And I prolly got q poked before.
Ha. He is my favorite hero and I think someone who is great with him is a huge help for the team. Can solo bosses at a low level and can stun backline. Misha is awesome.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah but what's the slow then for? It's aoe around Xul too after all so if Gmayne goes in just prison him back away and have your backline murder him once he's rooted. That's how I thought it to go at least, have played neither side of the coin.
Playing with Ming primarily he's just free XP until 16.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Bone prison is one of those things that's kinda trash 1v1, is easily avoidable by just not getting close to him, and doesn't have such a long duration as to make it deadly as long as you position yourself properly before it lands, yet as a setup is one of the highest reward : skill/difficulty ratio abilities in the game.
I'd love to see the stats of what Xul's winrate is at when he has a Morales and Li Ming on his team vs when he doesn't. I honestly think his early siege and Poison Nova are the only things drastically overtuned atm. The problem is, 80% of every game right now has a Li Ming and 50% has a Morales.
I'd love to see the stats of what Xul's winrate is at when he has a Morales and Li Ming on his team vs when he doesn't. I honestly think his early siege and Poison Nova are the only things drastically overtuned atm. The problem is, 80% of every game right now has a Li Ming and 50% has a Morales.
Greymane shouldn't be going in on anyone unless he can get the kill, in which case it's likely bone armour will already be on cooldown. Even if it isn't unless he took the evade basic attacks talent it's likely Greymane would get the kill given his level of burst.
If Greymane goes in before Zul is in murder range then he's going to get taken apart by him of course - but Greymane wins any battle of attrition at range against Zul.
If Greymane goes in before Zul is in murder range then he's going to get taken apart by him of course - but Greymane wins any battle of attrition at range against Zul.
racketpunch
Member
The worst is when people pre-pick a S-Tier character when they're last in the draft and someone on your team grabs them first since they're one of the first to draft. The last pick ends up bitching & moaning and refuses to fill whatever role is needed and goes with a troll pick.
I think his winrate will drop a bit as people get used to countering him but at the same time in hl without bans you can auto lose at draft against him. Is there any other character that counters another type of hero so hard as Xul against meele assassins?
I agree his winrate is probably inflated by li-Ming. He gets that root off and Li-Ming gets an easy kill.
I suspect his lvl 20 mortal strike will make him an auto ban in competitive. Especially since he scales so well the entire game.
I agree his winrate is probably inflated by li-Ming. He gets that root off and Li-Ming gets an easy kill.
I suspect his lvl 20 mortal strike will make him an auto ban in competitive. Especially since he scales so well the entire game.
I wonder if his winrate is affected by purchasing habits of the best players? Do elite players immediately buy and play new toons to stay on top of the game?
Because there's no way Xul is as disruptive as Li Ming. Her sit back and eff your towers BS is the most broken thing in the game.
Because there's no way Xul is as disruptive as Li Ming. Her sit back and eff your towers BS is the most broken thing in the game.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Ahem, yes, elite players bought Xul right away.
Xul is in no way ban worthy without obvious tells at a certain comp strategy.
His skill floor is high so I'm surprised by the winrate.
Xul is in no way ban worthy without obvious tells at a certain comp strategy.
His skill floor is high so I'm surprised by the winrate.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Okay her range is insane but not that insane. She has to be halfway in lane at least and to the side so not to hit the wave. At which point she can be picked off if not careful or supported. She can't be left alone and she has to have a good laner to contest her. Her siege is definitely problematic but nerfing her range isn't the solution it'd neuter the hero.
All the while she isn't clearing the wave and the opponents could push it all the way back. The best counter to her early push sometimes is pushing themselves.
Calamity making a kill into a team wipe is much more broken since she can apply her teleport + range to get everyone quickly in succession and she still doesn't have much mana issues.
Yeah, I have to agree. Whilst her structure damage does need toning down, it's by no means the most broken thing the game has had. I'd say the reworked rehgar was much worse for example.
It's very easy to bully Li-Ming. If you find yourself in a lane with her and she's doing this stuff, you need to reallocate your lanes and rotate just like you would a Sylvanas. it isn't by any means an unstoppable strategy (hence why you never see it work at the pro level).
It's very easy to bully Li-Ming. If you find yourself in a lane with her and she's doing this stuff, you need to reallocate your lanes and rotate just like you would a Sylvanas. it isn't by any means an unstoppable strategy (hence why you never see it work at the pro level).
So, if Xul is overpowered (and he's at over 58% winrate at the moment, so it looks like he is), what's the proper nerf? I've seen some complaining about Poison Nova's damage, but a) you can walk away from it as was pointed out here when he came out and b) his Skeleton Mage ult has a significantly higher winrate over it anyway.
Maybe just decrease his HP and his damage a tad? He doesn't seem to have any specific talents like Ess of Johan that needs to be looked at, from what I can see anyway.
Maybe just decrease his HP and his damage a tad? He doesn't seem to have any specific talents like Ess of Johan that needs to be looked at, from what I can see anyway.
With proper control, hes no harder to keep alive against Ming as any other hero. Just have to control misha and rexxar separately. I can understand why he is the least popular. That is probably why I am attracted to him. But I have had so many epic plays with him.
I can see xul being pretty strong, maybe OP especially in uncoordinated games. But there's also so many xul games getting played right now that maybe the numbers aren't the best indicator as of yet. Give it a couple weeks first, things can definetly change.
But, his ability to win a lane, sometimes 1v2 and then later push every lane is really good at dragging the game out. Then you add mortal strike at 20 and people just can't handle it. You hit 2 or 3 people with mortal strike and it's game over. It reminds me of Leo's lvl 20 march upgrade when he first came out. Like people just didn't fully respect what it was doing to their team and they'd lose the fight. Same with mortal strike.... But it's on a 4 second cooldown. It becomes almost impossible to lose a fight if your hitting multiple mortal strikes, the other team basically doesn't have a healer and that late into the game no healer means game over.
So you gotta try to end early, but xul is pushing out the lanes which makes it hard.
He doesn't look OP because he's not like wrecking people in team fights, but what he does to the game is really strong... And I think that's also why he's really map dependent.
He has something like an abathur effect except way easier to pull off as a team.
I think if they are to nerf him it has to be mortal strike or his skeletons somehow.
Like legit he's got a better version of another heroes heroic at lvl 1.
Skeletons should require talents to be as good as they are I think.
But, his ability to win a lane, sometimes 1v2 and then later push every lane is really good at dragging the game out. Then you add mortal strike at 20 and people just can't handle it. You hit 2 or 3 people with mortal strike and it's game over. It reminds me of Leo's lvl 20 march upgrade when he first came out. Like people just didn't fully respect what it was doing to their team and they'd lose the fight. Same with mortal strike.... But it's on a 4 second cooldown. It becomes almost impossible to lose a fight if your hitting multiple mortal strikes, the other team basically doesn't have a healer and that late into the game no healer means game over.
So you gotta try to end early, but xul is pushing out the lanes which makes it hard.
He doesn't look OP because he's not like wrecking people in team fights, but what he does to the game is really strong... And I think that's also why he's really map dependent.
He has something like an abathur effect except way easier to pull off as a team.
I think if they are to nerf him it has to be mortal strike or his skeletons somehow.
Like legit he's got a better version of another heroes heroic at lvl 1.
Skeletons should require talents to be as good as they are I think.
Jake actually uploaded THH on time this week so I listened to the first bit and Zuna said he thought skeleton build was the way to go. This was after I compiled the talents above.
Gave it a shot. It is a surprising amount of damage. Not as much as I expected based on that reddit thread + the winrates, but it's way, way better than I thought it was. The sustain with the extra two skeletons is better than I expected for sure.
He may actually have two legit, varied builds depending on the comp you play against/map with the Q build and skeleton build. That'd be something truly unique.
EDIT: Also, the talk on THH about coupling Weaken (7 talent) with Shade (1 talent) was something I hadn't considered when talking about his power level. He goes from being a counter to melee to basically devaluing them to the point of obscurity for long stretches of time in a fight with that combo.
Gave it a shot. It is a surprising amount of damage. Not as much as I expected based on that reddit thread + the winrates, but it's way, way better than I thought it was. The sustain with the extra two skeletons is better than I expected for sure.
He may actually have two legit, varied builds depending on the comp you play against/map with the Q build and skeleton build. That'd be something truly unique.
EDIT: Also, the talk on THH about coupling Weaken (7 talent) with Shade (1 talent) was something I hadn't considered when talking about his power level. He goes from being a counter to melee to basically devaluing them to the point of obscurity for long stretches of time in a fight with that combo.
Yea Tass is a strong counter pick because of that reason
What is the skeleton build? Haven't listened to that part, but did they talk at all about his wave clear/push?
I could see that being the case in QM where supports are a luxury.
What is the skeleton build? Haven't listened to that part, but did they talk at all about his wave clear/push?
I could see that being the case in QM where supports are a luxury.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
MVP actually went into monstrosity on Sky Temple against TNL, probably because he's going symbiote built to support illidan.
Skeleton is heal, +2, jailer and something
Skeleton is heal, +2, jailer and something
Explosion maybe
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Omg you guys have to watch the TNL vs MVP series it's positively insane.
Last game finish spoiler
Last game finish spoiler
Tyrael trait finishes of core at 3%, everyone else dead.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I'm just not finding Rehgar particularly fun right now, both because of his changes and because Xul is a kinda annoying counter to him, so I'm probably gonna roll Tass again for a while. I figure his E should drop you out of Xul's root the same as it kills Triple Tap and Butcher's charge?
Yeah enjoyed this series a bunch
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Someone made an app that overlays MMR on the loading screen, if well received and not barred by blizz intends to release it tomorrow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...ade_an_app_that_shows_players_mmr_on_loading/
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...ade_an_app_that_shows_players_mmr_on_loading/
Milly and I talked about this earlier. While I would love to have the tool for my own personal use, I can only see bad things happening with it in games. There's already the semi-periodic epidemic of people looking up MMR in game and talking shit to a teammate.
If it releases it'll kind of become a must have like WoW gearscore or DPS meters. I do want to know the ranking and/or MMR of the folks I'm playing with, but I'd prefer it be a little more general just based on my own anecdotal evidence from gameplay. People will be forced to make their HOTSlogs accounts invisible in some cases just to avoid it.
I don't see a whole lot of BM at my MMR, but I have seen it even be so petty as people calling out someone is 2750 because they are 3015, for example, even though both are in Diamond and are at least reasonably paired skillwise. I've had people call me out on my alt account which is 2300 QM/3100 HL because I was a paired with Milly and co. and clearly 700 MMR below them on hotdoggies in QM. Never even glanced at my HL match history/MMR. After that I hid my own accounts. I would expect more of that in a loss moving forward if this thing gets released into the wild and isn't frowned upon by Blizzard.
If the app showed just the MMR bracket (ie: Diamond, Bronze, Gold, whatever) I think it'd be a little more palatable for me personally, but I dunno how everyone else feels.
racketpunch
Member
The tool sounds nice and something I would use. I don't think it's any different than people flaming because of rank. I guess it would cause issues at rank 1 but I'm not there yet.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'd be just interested as it exposes the matchmaker more and basically forces Blizzards hands on the issue, if it's wildly popular.
That part of it would be intriguing. It could force them to get out some form of visible MMR rating quicker/at all as well.
I think if it drops to the public it's a given it'll be popular so long as it's safe, easy to use, and doesn't hurt performance (all of which I'd assume it will be). People browsing around reddit and here and the internet in general looking for HOTS info would have a hard time passing up something so useful...even if it ultimately colors their perception of games before they go in.
I think if it drops to the public it's a given it'll be popular so long as it's safe, easy to use, and doesn't hurt performance (all of which I'd assume it will be). People browsing around reddit and here and the internet in general looking for HOTS info would have a hard time passing up something so useful...even if it ultimately colors their perception of games before they go in.
Itd be cool if the overlay just linked to a yelp review of the player, id be down with that
Had a 3800 yesterday who prevented us from winning like 3 times because he was scared and couldnt judge when we could finish, but he was super nice even when i did the passive-aggressive "we could have finished" thing
4/5 stars, would eat again, $$$ pricey but overall experience was good
Had a 3800 yesterday who prevented us from winning like 3 times because he was scared and couldnt judge when we could finish, but he was super nice even when i did the passive-aggressive "we could have finished" thing
4/5 stars, would eat again, $$$ pricey but overall experience was good
ROFL. I do wish we had a commendation system. I could downvote Milly every fucking game.
A couple weeks later, Milly pops on GAF:
"Got banned guys. Said I was BMing in chat but I don't remember saying anything."
Alur pops on GAF:
"It was in party chat trololololol YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
A couple weeks later, Milly pops on GAF:
"Got banned guys. Said I was BMing in chat but I don't remember saying anything."
Alur pops on GAF:
"It was in party chat trololololol YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
There's no actual way to find your MMR anyway right now without using Hotdogs and assuming it's gospel, correct?
I mean, I don't even upload anything to there, so anything of mine is by association with everyone I play with uploading.
I mean, I don't even upload anything to there, so anything of mine is by association with everyone I play with uploading.
Yeah, but as your total number of games uploaded with or without your input odds are it becomes decently accurate at judging your bracket, if not the actual number. It's pretty doubtful that every game you lose is uploaded and every game you win is not, for example, so it's bound to converge.
The issue non-uploaders would probably encounter from my POV would be potentially getting locked in via hotdogs but continuing to play (and improve) over a long period of time and the rating potentially not reflecting that. I dunno if that would happen, but it would be more likely at lower MMR's. Once you cross into Diamond threshold it's almost a lock that 4 of every 5 games you play or more are gonna end up on hotdogs.
EDIT: That's kind of all the more reason for something like that just to show brackets, though. If you are someone who legitimately has a flawed hotdogs for whatever reason, however many of those people there are, you're gonna get inflated or deflated in someone running the app's estimation based on that number. If it just shows bracket, most people matched together are in the same bracket unless they are straddling a line between two (sans the super high MMR players, anyway).
The issue non-uploaders would probably encounter from my POV would be potentially getting locked in via hotdogs but continuing to play (and improve) over a long period of time and the rating potentially not reflecting that. I dunno if that would happen, but it would be more likely at lower MMR's. Once you cross into Diamond threshold it's almost a lock that 4 of every 5 games you play or more are gonna end up on hotdogs.
EDIT: That's kind of all the more reason for something like that just to show brackets, though. If you are someone who legitimately has a flawed hotdogs for whatever reason, however many of those people there are, you're gonna get inflated or deflated in someone running the app's estimation based on that number. If it just shows bracket, most people matched together are in the same bracket unless they are straddling a line between two (sans the super high MMR players, anyway).
jaundicejuice
Member
Holy shit that app and everything it represents is awful for what is supposed to be the most casual MOBA on the market. May as well go back to Dota or pick up League at this point.
The problem is that they don't have a proper league system in place to prevent the necessity of this in the first place.
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