It's weird that everyone is so against that app. I've thought for awhile since HL is so busted that they should just surface the actual MMR value, but I think I would just make it so you an only see your own and then maybe the highest on each team during draft (who would then be in charge of bans/first pick)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
- Status
RumblingRosco
Member
I realized this morning that I haven't played a HL or QM game in a few weeks. I just play ARAM when I can or, more commonly, just play a few AI games in the morning to knockout my quests.
I'd call myself casual scum, but I mean, that's basically the definition of anyone that plays HOTS.
I'd call myself casual scum, but I mean, that's basically the definition of anyone that plays HOTS.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
After watching THH this week they really should make it 2 Hosts 2 Pros, Jake talked about how he didn't like triple pro a while ago, since only 1 will talk for the most part but then again he sticks to 3 hosts for some reason.
If he just doesn't wanna slight Zoia or Cooby they could make a rotating chair. Schamtoo is working at Twitch now according to them btw.
If he just doesn't wanna slight Zoia or Cooby they could make a rotating chair. Schamtoo is working at Twitch now according to them btw.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I think I just had a game with a bot. It was on Blackheart's Bay and our comp was crap but we had a Leoric as a frontline. Except he didn't show up to a fight once. He just kept PvEing the map. Didn't respond to picks nor chat. Also would behave erratically at times B-ing but then canceling to clear a wave despite being low, then to the next wave, etc.
He kept PvEing when we were looking for a fight and the opponents had like 40 coins, at which point collecting coins becomes quite pointless.
He kept PvEing when we were looking for a fight and the opponents had like 40 coins, at which point collecting coins becomes quite pointless.
scoobs
Member
Or remove generic talents like bolt from the game and give more cool shit like bone spear, and make ult upgrades more impactful so the choice is difficult.
jaundicejuice
Member
The game-wide talents is something they've been moving away from with their hero design. A lot of newer heroes have their own versions of things like seasoned marksman, envenom, sprint, etc. They just haven't done a design pass and removed generic talents or made specific versions for all of the pre-existing heroes. Nova just lost GP and Envenom, which needed to happen, when they butchered her with the re-design.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Tool's available now
https://github.com/poma/HotsStats
Weekly sale's gonna be
Murky
Gurgli, dunno which murky skin that
and the egypt tassadar skin
https://github.com/poma/HotsStats
Weekly sale's gonna be
Murky
Gurgli, dunno which murky skin that
and the egypt tassadar skin
Multiple someone's. The creator said he made it so he could alter his play from the start.
I've always thought people's MMR holds more water than you, but I can see why that would bother you. But if you're rolling into a game with a buncha 3000 MMR people and one is 2300, I think that's a pretty obvious person you should shelter. Unfortunately the majority of cases we hear about with this thing will probably not be ones where it was used in a positive manner.
I've always thought people's MMR holds more water than you, but I can see why that would bother you. But if you're rolling into a game with a buncha 3000 MMR people and one is 2300, I think that's a pretty obvious person you should shelter. Unfortunately the majority of cases we hear about with this thing will probably not be ones where it was used in a positive manner.
Many games where i do worse than ppl below me or better than ppl who are above, the idea that i or others would be (de)valorized (before anyone has a chance!) in either situation is Ludacris
In addition, the idea that through knowing mmr you can alter your play for someone's perceived badness in a positive way is really weird in a dynamic game w/ 10 ppl in it, and if ppl need this number to activate some hidden skill to make up for ppl being bad or slow instead of iunno just being friendly and communaicative in every game they are the chronicles of ridic
Could be wrong tho + i doubt this affects me in any meaningful way
I know reddit dude was anecdotal and probably didnt think it out but the idea that thinking high mmr azmodan vs. low mmr azmodan is staying in lane in a situation where curse is spawning is fundamentally different is pretty wack and has nothing to do w/ anything really
In addition, the idea that through knowing mmr you can alter your play for someone's perceived badness in a positive way is really weird in a dynamic game w/ 10 ppl in it, and if ppl need this number to activate some hidden skill to make up for ppl being bad or slow instead of iunno just being friendly and communaicative in every game they are the chronicles of ridic
Could be wrong tho + i doubt this affects me in any meaningful way
I know reddit dude was anecdotal and probably didnt think it out but the idea that thinking high mmr azmodan vs. low mmr azmodan is staying in lane in a situation where curse is spawning is fundamentally different is pretty wack and has nothing to do w/ anything really
Of course you do. That's because this is a game with 40+ heroes and you and those players are not equally as good at each and every hero you play. That's why a decent segment of matchmaking complaints are silly because people are often playing heroes to learn them or that they are outright worse at and it's messing up what might otherwise be a relatively even match skill wise.
Your performance from game to game relative another player isn't really a good argument for why an MMR tool is bad or not indicative of what you can expect IMO. I don't get your implication that noticing that you make mistakes and a player 400 MMR less than you did not in one game means a whole lot of anything. Some games your phone rings and you're on it and play like shit. Some games your hero is countered. Some games your hero has no counter on the enemy team. That's part of the game.
By and large those numbers bare out, though, in my experience. Perhaps you are right that in a small one game sample size it's less indicative, but I maintain that if you are 400-500 MMR higher than someone in a game you can probably expect things like rotations, soaking, and decision making to be more subpar than what you'd typically expect.
It's easy to alter your play, though. Far easier than changing someone else's. Perhaps you are typically very aggressive as a tank but your support is the lowest MMR. Maybe you will play more conservative. Perhaps you see that your Zagara is significantly lower MMR than the rest of the team and the majority of the enemy team and they have an amazing gank comp. Maybe this game you shouldn't let that particular Zag solo lane like you typically would due to rotations.
It's nowhere near as complicated as you're implying IMO.
They can't because the profile is hidden. TROLOLOLOL. But it is hidden because that very thing happened like 3 times...and that was without a tool telling them - they were manually looking it up. Glossed over dat HL MMR doe, gotta hone in on dat QM MMR and ~400 games.
I meant more that the tool as some sort of activator for playing correctly is flawed and correct solo q play very rooted in the idea that you can only control your actions and react to others, i should have tl;dr it instead of trying to make ludacris jokes but am willing to bust out chronicles of ridic at any oppurtunity
And ofc the idea that "yo...you're like 200 lower than us so try not to get too hyphy" is repulsive and even one instance of listen to me for no other reason than my number is higher is the chronicles of ridic
And ofc the idea that "yo...you're like 200 lower than us so try not to get too hyphy" is repulsive and even one instance of listen to me for no other reason than my number is higher is the chronicles of ridic
Well, in general it remains to be seen how the app will be used. It's entirely possible that a 200 MMR gap will be enough to incite a ragefest once a game goes sideways.
On the flipside, though, I do believe a bigger gap of MMR at lower levels...or a gap of 200-300 at an MMR level higher than 3500 is probably an indication that you and whoever that person is are going to have different thoughts on the correct actions to take in the course of a game.
If you're an open minded person, you can react according and prepare for the inevitable bad call (in your opinion) or lack of response to your own call due to the differences in playstyle at certain MMR brackets. Right now, what typically happens is you ping something that is necessary - an advantage to press, objective to defend, or fight that must be taken to stay in the game - and the other party, whom you know nothing about, disagrees and it devolves into a shitshow and pissing contest if you continue pressing.
Hypothetically, knowing the average bracket of your teammates will help you avoid that. That's the "pure" purpose of the tool. I doubt it'll be used that way just like you do, but I doubt it for other reasons than you. You doubt the validity of the numbers, I doubt the sanctity of the person who has the numbers.
On the flipside, though, I do believe a bigger gap of MMR at lower levels...or a gap of 200-300 at an MMR level higher than 3500 is probably an indication that you and whoever that person is are going to have different thoughts on the correct actions to take in the course of a game.
If you're an open minded person, you can react according and prepare for the inevitable bad call (in your opinion) or lack of response to your own call due to the differences in playstyle at certain MMR brackets. Right now, what typically happens is you ping something that is necessary - an advantage to press, objective to defend, or fight that must be taken to stay in the game - and the other party, whom you know nothing about, disagrees and it devolves into a shitshow and pissing contest if you continue pressing.
Hypothetically, knowing the average bracket of your teammates will help you avoid that. That's the "pure" purpose of the tool. I doubt it'll be used that way just like you do, but I doubt it for other reasons than you. You doubt the validity of the numbers, I doubt the sanctity of the person who has the numbers.
RumblingRosco
Member
I want to lose a bunch of games now on an alt to get a shit MMR, then group with one of you with high MMR and just see the rage from our allies. Oh and then we'll win.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Nirolak please change OT title to Chronicles of Ridic
Haha, that's one of my alts in a nutshell. It was the very first account I ever played, did about 100 games on it and fukt the QM MMR before I swapped to my main account in Alpha. Actually didn't even swap because of the MMR, I didn't even know what that was at the time. I swapped because it was a throwaway account I made to get flagged for Alpha and the throwaway got in before my main. When I first started playing on it Milly was 3k and I was 1700. Now I'm 2350ish so the gap is smaller, but I did get the BM a few times.
The games we get when we play together in QM and I'm on that account are wild, though. MMRs all over the place. Typically win more than we should because my real MMR is much higher and the system still tries to match like for like, so their 2300 person is at a disadvantage because he's really 2300.
Based on the reddit thread, whatever he has tapped into is part of what map hacks tap into and we already know they ban those dudes all the time. I would assume this wouldn't be much harder to do otherwise the creator wouldn't have made a smurf to showcase it the first time he mentioned it lol
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It reads the replay file that is created in temp.
It utilizes the same file that the map hacks use to identify locations, apparently. Like Familie said, the temp replay file or whatever. It reads the file and then searches hotdogs for the b.net ID and displays it on your screen as an overlay.
That's what a lot of the reddit thread discourse was about other than the general yes/no handwringing.
jaundicejuice
Member
She's probably the hardest counter to Xul solo lane. She melts creep waves, has ridiculous range and mobility. She can bully him out of lane easily and get out of Xul's reach easily. If there's no rotations to gank Li-Ming when the lane is heavily pushed forward she would destroy the frontline fortifications before the first objective pops on a map.
Honestly I think his best build is mortal strike build.
Shade at 1, heal from skeletons at 7 and then the Q upgrades at 4,13, 16, and 20. Typically I go for frost mages if they've only got 1 front liner, but if they have multiple melee and you're getting dived then I guess poison nova... But that doesn't happen to me much because people are counter picking with range not melee.
I think you can tech in backlash at 1, harvest vitality at 7, vulnerability at 16, and bone spear at 20. Depending on comps. If they've got a chogall go for all the % based damage and fuck him up.
I really don't think the skeleton build is that great unless your dedicated to split push on a big map... The idea being that someone comes to stop you and you just man fight them doing a lot of damage in lane with the skeleton build. But typically if I'm split pushing they come with 2 or 3 and then it's just better to run anyway..... Also, it's generally better to team fight then split push so I tend to like scythe build better for that reason.
Edit: I think li Ming is pretty bad in lane and gets crushed by xul. So far the best lane counters I've seen have been Johanna, Jaina, and KT. Johanna can just knights vs pawn forever and soak, Jaina can kill you if your not playing safe but will run out of mana, KT can also kill you and has less mana issues. Still it's easy to not lose these lanes as Xul, they just been the most successful at stopping me from pushing the towers in.
Shade at 1, heal from skeletons at 7 and then the Q upgrades at 4,13, 16, and 20. Typically I go for frost mages if they've only got 1 front liner, but if they have multiple melee and you're getting dived then I guess poison nova... But that doesn't happen to me much because people are counter picking with range not melee.
I think you can tech in backlash at 1, harvest vitality at 7, vulnerability at 16, and bone spear at 20. Depending on comps. If they've got a chogall go for all the % based damage and fuck him up.
I really don't think the skeleton build is that great unless your dedicated to split push on a big map... The idea being that someone comes to stop you and you just man fight them doing a lot of damage in lane with the skeleton build. But typically if I'm split pushing they come with 2 or 3 and then it's just better to run anyway..... Also, it's generally better to team fight then split push so I tend to like scythe build better for that reason.
Edit: I think li Ming is pretty bad in lane and gets crushed by xul. So far the best lane counters I've seen have been Johanna, Jaina, and KT. Johanna can just knights vs pawn forever and soak, Jaina can kill you if your not playing safe but will run out of mana, KT can also kill you and has less mana issues. Still it's easy to not lose these lanes as Xul, they just been the most successful at stopping me from pushing the towers in.
i think mortal strike is strong but I'm not really sold on it as a reason to pick him
i think li ming is bad by herself in lane too, but I'm not an expert on her or anything, like from the left I hear that she has booty waveclear (im in this camp) and on the right I'm hearing that her waveclear is great so ?????
her ability to siege shit down is ludacris tho
i think li ming is bad by herself in lane too, but I'm not an expert on her or anything, like from the left I hear that she has booty waveclear (im in this camp) and on the right I'm hearing that her waveclear is great so ?????
her ability to siege shit down is ludacris tho
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Disagree you need a laner that has great waveclear, Ming Lee is just passable. Her waveclear is only good from a position that makes her much more vulnerable to bone prison and ganks.
The minions + skeletons make it difficult to home in on him if he sticks to them.
If you just push the towers he can push the wall with his skeletons.
I pretty much always ask for someone to switch with me or to assist me against him.
You basically have to hit the mage in the middle with the orb from the side. That way you hit almost all minions.
It puts you in a dangerous spot though so keep moving.
If Li Ming has to talent into these you already partially won.
I'm not talking about laning against her. That's an adventure and I've had some success. Just depends on the Ming. In a team fight with no one out front but you, though, she eats your shit because inevitably you're gonna either get forced into a spot you don't want to be dodging her yoloballs, or end up not dodging one and get rekt.
She's not unbeatable, but she's definitely the roughest thing I've encountered other than one match where the enemy played protect the Hammer and I literally could only throw my Q out every few seconds.
Beyond that Xul has been pretty smooth sailing. Some games I top everything. Most games I top siege and experience and it feels like I barely have the chance to do any damage comparatively because people die so quickly. Either way he wins pretty well. I'm 8-4 with him so far.
She's not unbeatable, but she's definitely the roughest thing I've encountered other than one match where the enemy played protect the Hammer and I literally could only throw my Q out every few seconds.
Beyond that Xul has been pretty smooth sailing. Some games I top everything. Most games I top siege and experience and it feels like I barely have the chance to do any damage comparatively because people die so quickly. Either way he wins pretty well. I'm 8-4 with him so far.
Yea she's definetly a PIA in team fights.... But that's a li Ming thing not a xul thing. He's definetly not a front liner though. He can just get away with sometimes if your getting your w on right clickers.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll