[MLiD] PS6 Early Specs Leak: AMD RDNA 5, Lower Price than PS5 Pro!

Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

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Chapters:
0:00 XBOX Magnus Performance
1:36 Valve Considered Zen 4 for the Steam Deck OLED
3:27 RDNA 5 IPC Uplift Leak
8:04 WARNING – Some of my PS6 data is old!
11:08 PS6 Performance & Release Date Leak
17:40 PS6 Handheld Performance & Specs Leak
21:51 Is this too weak for next-gen?
24:20 A "PS6S" could be $299-$399 w/ Canis!
25:35 Developer PS6 Testimonials Leak

PlayStation "Orion" (PS6 Home Console):-

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PlayStation "Canis" (PS6 Handheld):-

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Anonymous Game Dev comments on backwards compatibility:-

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Talking Go On GIF by Sealed With A GIF
 
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First time I've watched more than 5 minutes of a MLiD video. Guy has gotten a lot of PlayStation stuff right.
 
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We're gonna see the next generation of crossgen. To maximize pc sales, they will have to set that baseline low. So why not make a handheld. And might as well release everything on ps5 at 30fps while we're at it. Snooze. I'm sure the hardware will be nice but idk how exciting next gen can be when it's a near-straight hardware upgrade for half the gen or more.

PS5 from PS4 was like that for a few years and its fine. Only taken as a super-PS4, i'm happy with it. It's just not a whole new world like new consoles used to be. Maybe the market has changed enough and more people are fine with that. Resigned to console functionality being matured years ago and on track to eventual triple-gen releases.

Or, there is some technological paradigm shift that could dictate a clean break. That would be nice.
 
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Just finished watching the video.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, for his accuracy on the PS5 Pro leak, and take this one at face value of what he claims.

He says multiple times in the video that this is an early proposal from AMD to Sony in a presentation from 2023, and the final specs of the SoC can change.

I think it would get closer to the Magnus SoC of Xbox, but not more faster than it, to keep costs low.
 
If they indeed aim for a slightly lower retail price I think it's a wise decision. PS5 Pro was above my personal breaking point in terms of cost in relation to performance
 
nial said:
So, a well-made console that will still get new games 11-12 years after its launch?
Click to expand...
Jag cpu's in 2013 is what you consider as a well made system? And with jet engine fans to boot. And yes, of course Sony and other devs will milk it for over a decade, but how is this a positive? Games coming out on the ps4 still run like trash.
 
I don't think these are specs. They are an early proposal in 2023 to Sony from AMD.

This is about as relevant as the ARM Xbox leaks from the FTC trial.
 
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skit_data said:
If they indeed aim for a slightly lower retail price I think it's a wise decision. PS5 Pro was above my personal breaking point in terms of cost in relation to performance
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Exactly, in relation to performance. If they upgraded the cpu as much as they upgraded the gpu, $700 would've been a good deal for what you're getting.
 
skit_data said:
If they indeed aim for a slightly lower retail price I think it's a wise decision. PS5 Pro was above my personal breaking point in terms of cost in relation to performance
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Pro was for Sony fanboy gamers,(including me) marketed as a luxury upgrade.

PS5 Pro was a bad deal for everyone else, it certainly isn't bang for buck. If this gen has taught me anything, it's that we have been in a diminishing returns era for some time now and if you have a Pro, I see no reason to get a PS6 at launch because it's going to be another slow generation before we see the benefits in future games.
 
It has to be cheaper than the pro or it won't make it.

How they manage to do this and make a large enough jump over the pro is going to be interesting to see.
 
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SILKYSMOOTH30FPS said:
Jag cpu's in 2013 is what you consider as a well made system? And with jet engine fans to boot. And yes, of course Sony and other devs will milk it for over a decade, but how is this a positive? Games coming out on the ps4 still run like trash.
Click to expand...

The ps4 was the only one i really disliked all the physical aspects of. But it's a trusty, long-lived toy that plays fucktons of games. For 399 in 2013 you cant ask for much more than that.
 
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VolticArchangel said:
Just finished watching the video.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, for his accuracy on the PS5 Pro leak, and take this one at face value of what he claims.

He says multiple times in the video that this is an early proposal from AMD to Sony in a presentation from 2023, and the final specs of the SoC can change.

I think it would get closer to the Magnus SoC of Xbox, but not more faster than it, to keep costs low.
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You need to understand Magnus and PS6 serve very different purpose. MS is tying Xbox hardware to the PC ecosystem so that it will exist as long as PC Gaming will exist. MS, AMD, OEMs are going to use Magnus and other APUs with Console library BC to build Xbox PCs, Xbox Consoles, Xbox Laptops, Xbox Handhelds, Xbox Cloud.

OEMs will only build devices with the greatest TAM (Total Addressable Market). So that's why they need to cater to both PC Gamers (third party stores) and Xbox Console gamers (Console library BC). They want powerful devices that can attract the pre built gaming PC and Console userbase.

90 million windows devices are sold every quarter. IF AMD with their APUs can capture even 10% of that market, that would be 9 million devices sold every quarter. All of those would be Xbox library compatible. So Magnus needed to be extremely powerful, and MS and AMD will give the OEMs even more powerful APUs in 2-3 years.

Sony can't afford to build extremely powerful super expensive devices because they need to create a closed market that they control. While MS latches on to PC Gaming market, one that is their backyard. So MS doesn't care how many devices are sold, if they sell everywhere anyways and if they know every AMD APU will be Xbox compatible.

PS6 won't be as powerful as Magnus, Sony wants to keep selling closer to $599. Unless they still plan to keep selling PS5s as the entry point devices.
 
I think he made a good point. All Sony really has to do is maximize 4K 120 displays with better ray-tracing and that would be enough. Then you add an improved version of FSR4 in the mix and it will be a nice improvement overall.
 
After seeing those specs I could see a lot of people keeping their PS5 / PS5 Pro and buying the handheld instead of PS6.

The handheld is probably going to be sold out pretty quickly and for a long time as they won't produce enough of it, like the portal.
 
So Microsoft will release 1 year earlier console that will be 40% faster than ps6 + sony consider realsing games on xbox ? Well, xbox is not dead ;d 160w tbp + 160 bit bus defenitly sounds like "genius" Cerny.
 
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The one thing I don't believe is the 160W target. Since when Sony is interested into low power consumption in their consoles at the cost of performance? not when low power modes is definitely possible on PS6 too so that would satisfy their recent californian ideology.

PS5 Pro can consume up to 250W in some games and they didn't get sued by anybody because of this.
 
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Jinzo Prime said:
Are they going to subsidise the cost of the handheld for market share?
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Why wouldn't they?
Physiognomonics said:
The one thing I don't believe is the 160W target. Since when Sony is interested into low power consumption in their consoles at the cost of performance? not when low power modes is definitely possible on PS6 too so that would satisfy their recent californian ideology.

PS5 Pro can consume up to 250W in some games and they didn't get sued by anybody because of this.
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Lower power = lower costs, also going too wild on specs for the console would just make supporting the handheld harder.
 
Physiognomonics said:
The one thing I don't believe is the 160W target. Since when Sony is interested into low power consumption in their consoles at the cost of performance? not when low power modes is definitely possible on PS6 too so that would satisfy their recent californian ideology.

PS5 Pro can consume up to 250W in some games and they didn't get sued by anybody because of this.
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Imo when they see performance difference to next xbox they will in panic oc clocks as hell ;d
 
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So between 40 to 48 compute units on RDNA 5, 8 Zen 6 cores and the uplift in rasterisation 150% over the base PS5, I'm guessing the APU will be clocked really high and paired with GDDR7.

Specs can be misleading but if the rasterisation uplift is true then it seems like a good and compelling upgrade over the PS5 and maybe even Pro. I'm not event taking into account the ML and RT performance upgrades which will be significant (based on a reasonable hunch).

How developers exploit the power is a totally different question.
 
Tobimacoss said:
.90 million windows devices are sold every quarter. IF AMD with their APUs can capture even 10% of that market, that would be 9 million devices sold every quarter. All of those would be Xbox library compatible. So Magnus needed to be extremely powerful, and MS and AMD will give the OEMs even more powerful APUs in 2-3 years.
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And those devices does not have 5080-5090
MS would be lucky if they get 1% of those 90M for "extremely powerfull" Magnus chip

sncvsrtoip said:
Imo when they see performance difference to next xbox they will in panic oc clocks as hell ;d
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They are no longer in competition with Xbox
And Xbox price point will make any power comparison moot and irrelevant
 
Crayon said:
We're gonna see the next generation of crossgen. To maximize pc sales, they will have to set that baseline low. So why not make a handheld. And might as well release everything on ps5 at 30fps while were at it. Snooze. I'm sure the hardware will be nice but idk how exciting next gen can be when it's a near-straight hardware upgrade for half the gen or more.

PS5 from PS4 was like that for a few years and its fine. Only taken as a super-PS4, i'm happy with it. It's just not a whole new world like new consoles used to be. Maybe the market has changed enough and more people are fine with that. Resigned to console functionality being matured years ago and on track to eventual triple-gen releases.

Or there is some technological paradigm shift that could dictate a clean break. That would be nice.
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The curse of backwards compatibility is each new machine comes out with what is technically thousands of games to play already. This means no one machine can be the only one that comes out with no backwards compatibility, which means that these guys are incentivized to stick to the "correct" lane and not dramatically change up their architecture.

The other issue is how much influence service games have now, you got a game like COD or Fortnite that is still coming out for PS4! So why should a guy who only plays these games go and upgrade?

Both issues have pushed management into the direction of expanding their reach down the chain via cheaper alternatives instead of going more powerful and more expensive.
 
Physiognomonics said:
The one thing I don't believe is the 160W target. Since when Sony is interested into low power consumption in their consoles at the cost of performance? not when low power modes is definitely possible on PS6 too so that would satisfy their recent californian ideology.

PS5 Pro can consume up to 250W in some games and they didn't get sued by anybody because of this.
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You just don't get it. It's not about being environmentally friendly. It's about having lower power draws in datacenters.

I mod the /r/xCloud subreddit. xCloud engineers hang out there getting feedback. xCloud runs on Series S profiles on custom Series X server blades. Everyone had assumed they ran Series S profiles in order to double capacity by running two Series S instances per X APU, since X APU could run four instances of One S.

But back in April, one of the main engineers confirmed they only run one single instance of Series S per X APU. That it wasn't possible to run two per X APU since Series S games were coded with full CPU cores availability.

So the main reason they ran Series S profiles was because xCloud is limited to 1080/60 currently. They don't need 4k/60 streaming on mobile. 2nd biggest reason is that electricity and cooling costs are their biggest expense in a datacenter.

Sony wants to expand PS6 streaming to other devices or they're going to be left behind in the future. But they also want to keep costs down, you do that by having 160 watt 4k/60 mode in the hardware that will be used as custom chips for cloud streaming. And the power draw can be lowered even more for 1080/60, thus the low power mode

Sony is trying to find the right balance.

MS will be using Magnus in the Cloud also, but MS will likely keep it to 1080/60 or 1080/120 profiles for Gamepass streaming. Then they're working on Cloud Only tiers that will offer better streaming quality to 4k/120. But that will be additional costs. Either an addon Fee, or Ultimate pricing goes higher.

Sony can't make PS+ Premium pricing higher unless they start including Day One games.

So the power draws are all about streaming costs.
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
The 9070XT is three times faster than the PS5 (and has comparable GPU power to RTX4080). However, with only 40–48 CUs, it will be impossible to match the 9070XT's 64 CUs.
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This. At 160W (low clocks) and say, 44CUs, this thing won't have 4080 performance at all. Maybe 4070 is what they really target. This will have roughly about 2x raster performance than PS5.
KeplerL2 said:
Why wouldn't they?

Lower power = lower costs, also going too wild on specs for the console would just make supporting the handheld harder.
Click to expand...
Can you confirm the chiplet part? Or is it too soon?
 
Tiago Rodrigues said:
You want a PS6 costing 1000 bucks? Another disappointing gen? pS5 is a lot better than what the PS4 was dude wtf?
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More around 700 would be great. But I've been asking for more expensive/powerful consoles forever. Yeah, this gen has been amazing with sub 1080p res, the comeback of shimmering, aliasing and visuals not much better than what we had last gen.
 
Physiognomonics said:
This. At 160W (low clocks) and say, 44CUs, this thing won't have 4080 performance at all. Maybe 4070 is what they really target. This will have roughly about 2x raster performance than PS5.

Can you confirm the chiplet part? Or is it too soon?
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These leakers lack basic knowledge. This leak is obviously fake — you simply can't get three times the PS5 power/9070XT with just 40–48 CUs and a power budget of just 160 W. These leakers are fooling naive people.

It was the same with the PS5 leaks too. Even on this Neogaf forum, leakers claimed to know the PS5 specs for sure (they were even verified by the mods), but most of them were wrong. Only VFXveteran's prediction was correct (maybe because he was a true expert with real inside sources), but back then, people didn't want to listen to him because they were really expecting a 14TF monster, while he was saying the PS5 would have way less than than and be around 1080ti performance at most.
 
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KeplerL2 said:
Why wouldn't they?

Lower power = lower costs, also going too wild on specs for the console would just make supporting the handheld harder.
Click to expand...

Taking into account these are 2023 AMD proposals to Sony, did you hear about finalized CU count for Orion, or at least as of now, before tape out?

Also, wouldn't the same context (support for handheld) apply for Magnus as well, and it's handheld variant? Xbox is still doing their proprietary handheld right?
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
The 9070XT is three times faster than the PS5 (and has comparable GPU power to RTX4080). However, with only 40–48 CUs, it will be impossible to match the 9070XT's 64 CUs.
Click to expand...
Not at all
Physiognomonics said:
Can you confirm the chiplet part? Or is it too soon?
Click to expand...
Not yet
VolticArchangel said:
Taking into account these are 2023 AMD proposals to Sony, did you hear about finalized CU count for Orion, or at least as of now, before tape out?
Click to expand...
No, but I know they settled on 16 CUs for Canis.
VolticArchangel said:
Also, wouldn't the same context (support for handheld) apply for Magnus as well, and it's handheld variant? Xbox is still doing their proprietary handheld right?
Click to expand...
There's no handheld SoC in development for Microsoft.
 
40 or even 48CUs at 3Ghz ain't gonna produce anywhere close to 3x PS5 raster--not even in the same stratosphere. Large architectural gains are over at this point, a 3x target would be factoring in PSSR/FSR4 gains rendering at much lower resolutions. These specs would produce a console subjectively no better than PS5 Pro, especially if they continue improving and overhauling PSSR on Pro like they promise. This hypothetical product would be much closer to a PS5 Pro Slim than a PS6, which would be worse than terrible for a 2028 device.
 
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