DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I mean, this applies to practically every single studio baring a small handful now.
And is that pedo bear cracking through the purple glass in the avatar?
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And is that pedo bear cracking through the purple glass in the avatar?
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Somehow to make games more diverse they had to squeeze out the white lady in charge of creative. They needed a white man to truly teach diversity.
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FalconPunch
Gold Member
But Abby didn't and that's the point. If you had a wife that was pregnant with your child and some kills them without any "intention". Would say, yea its cool bro, you didnt mean to do it? Meanwhile if someone had threatened to kill your pregnant wife but didn't, you'd still have your wife. You'd still get to see your child. The difference is one robbed you of something very precious causing permanent emotional damage. The other only threatened causing temporary emotional instability.
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Chuck Berry
Gold Member
Within that film it was the absurdity of a 12 yo girl killing grown men that was the appeal. No one walked out of that theater thinking "hey, there is a 12 yo girl, I had better watch out!"
This is true, but action films RARELY have a good story. The point is THE ACTION. And who sells ACTION? Overwhelmingly the MALE STAR. Go look at alllll the Arnie and Stallone action films. How many have a legit good story? Damned few. But a LOT of them were very popular and eminently rewatchable because the action was good and the leads were charismatic men who could sell you on the action.
I'm not saying a female can NEVER be the lead in a successful action film, but the bar is MUCH higher because A. they often can't sell it physically, B. the audience seems to be less accepting of women in the typical action film, and C. very few women can get "cred" in the genre to then be a lead. Note that asian cinema doesn't have this problem because they have A. a much deeper pool of highly skilled female actress/martial artists, B. the audience seems to like it more, and C. the same women get cast over and over and can make a name for themselves.
Ulysses 31
Member
I get the distinct impression if Lev had said nothing, Abby would've slit Dina's throat. Dina being pregnant would've made the kill better, she says as much. Abby was being sadistic in that moment.
Um, what is this analogy? no I wouldn't say "that's cool bro" but that doesn't mean the person is more insane than somebody that specifically targets somebody that s/he knows is pregnant. They still killed my wife so they're a murderer nonetheless but between two murderers one that attempted to kill a woman knowing they're pregnant is more mentally unstable and dangerous to me.
No, if the only reason that it didn't happen is because his/her accomplice talked him out of doing something s/he was clearly about to do then I would still want that person locked away for being an animal. "Temporary emotional instability", lol. Attempted murder and involuntary manslaughter still have meaning in both cases.
FalconPunch
Gold Member
Lol, Ellie would charged with murder for both mother and child. Abby would be charged with assault with a weapon. Very different crimes.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
True.
And the reason why just about everyone doesn't take females seriously as uber heroes destroying everything is because in grounded kinds of settings, it makes it unrealistic and hokey. So thats why people make fun Ellie can somehow be a bigger killer than even Arnold and why the silly act in BF had a mom and daughter team succeed in a real life mission kicking Nazi ass. It's not as believable. It is fiction, so anything can happen, but the more realistic the setting, the dumber it looks. It'd be like LOU3 and suddenly Ellie has the new ability to shoot laser heat vision like Superman. Ok, technically the writers can make up some kind of mutant superpower from being bitten by a zombie, but it'd get silly.
On the other hand, when there's female characters in superhero movies or that hot sorceress casting lightning magic obliterating swarms of monsters people dont give a shit because thats total fantasy beyond stupidity belief. You got superheroes like WW in an invisible jet and deflecting bullets with bracelets, or Storm casting tornadoes or whatever, and Scarlett Johansson somehow survives every intergalactic battle being a normal human I think. But nobody cares because it's as crazy as it gets.
Markio128
Gold Member
Killing in any form could be deemed as evil. So please, try and justify the difference between what Joel did, and what the fireflies wanted to do.
Perpetration would be attempted murder, not assault. Stalking, tracking, or ambushing with the intent to kill would be a good case for attempted murder but you're going into criminal law here. I'm merely talking about the persons character. Somebody who intended to kill a known pregnant lady as well as killing a "father" in front of their "adopted" daughter is more vile than somebody who killed a woman in revenge she didn't know was actually pregnant to begin with.
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FalconPunch
Gold Member
You can do whatever moral gymnastics you need to do to justify your stance. If it works for you, it works for you. Afaic, they're both bad but if i had to choose whom i thought was worse, it's Ellie. Abby retaliated and only killed Joel. The retribution was targeted and justified. Ellie turned it into a full blown war murdering indiscriminately. Funnily enough, when it came time to finish the job, she backed down like the clown she had become.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
And no one walked out of Kill Bill thinking, "She beat up a guy. It's so unbelievable." You said it is very much a problem when it's clearly not.
No. lol
Movies are bombing left and right because the actual plot of the movie sucks. Action sequences are only a small portion of the entire film. You have to build the characters. This happens in many forms of entertainment.
Ulysses 31
Member
Generally, killing in self defense or in defense of another can be morally justified.
From my POV(the player) given all I've seen of the Fireflies in the game, it looks like they're going to kill Ellie for a lost cause and therefore I root for Joel to stop them.
Ellie had talked about what they're going to do after the hospital visit so to me it looks like Ellie had no intention of dying at that hospital. The Fireflies could've asked but they don't bother which makes me root against them even more.
Ellie spent most of the game getting Joel to accept her as a new daughter. So when her life is in danger, it seems in character to me that Joel comes to her defense.
Markio128
Gold Member
Some of my favourite action films have had female leads, like Kill Bill, Mad Max, The Hunger Games and Alien(s), amongst others. My favourite TV show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In the 80’s the action genre was pretty much dominated by the musclebound male hero, but times have moved on. I feel like some folk still live in the 80’s.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Kill Bill was a martial arts fantasy film with absurd bloodbath scenes. How can anyone take that film serious no matter who the main character was when you got a character killing 20 guys breakdancing on the ground and getting out of a buried coffin by doing Bruce Lee punches out of it.
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GermanZepp
Member
Holy shit dude!! Wtf
I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. Your idea that she "only killed Joel" is wrong too. You clearly don't remember the game very well. Abby was killing indiscriminately too for revenge. She didn't even know Jesse:
Mel and Owen were there to help Abby kill Joel. They were holding Ellie down making her watch.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
tlou2 is incredible from gameplay and narrative standpoint. You just need to let it convince you to let go of being an asshole lol
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
PeteBull
Member
Loved buffy here, watched all the episodes at least once, some even twice or trice, but fk that woke new nd game, its indefendable, ugly female protag is just sign of more nasty things to come.
Sad part is, they could fill plenty DEI if they made him the lead, he looks alike, got riz and sense of humor, would be manly and light at the same time:
but no, Druckmann had to go full retard and chose concord alike protagonist instead.
FalconPunch
Gold Member
Hey Genius, did this occur before or after Ellie had escalated? Spolier: Afterwards. The initial killing of Joel was limited to Joel only. They could have killed Ellie and Tommy then too but they showed tremendous restraint because they had nothing to do with it.
The thing that pisses me off about the The last of us 2 is how Naughty Dog wasted my time. People often think Naughty Dog wrote a story about revenge when it's in fact a 30 hour story about a young woman who sucks tremendously at her job. She took on a job nobody asked her to take which was too kill Abby. Talked a lot of nonsense about how Abby had to pay and they can't get away with it. She does a sloppy job and racks up a large amount of collateral damage. When it comes time to actually do the job she can't do it and edge lords want us to give Naughty Dog an award for this rubbish story smh.
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Nickolaidas
Member
- Ugly desexualized girlboss doing a ritual of defeminization by buzzing off her hair
- 80s retro vibes by ripping off movies like Alien and Guardians of the Galaxy
- obnoxious MCU dialogue
- female warrior beating up killer robots
Exactly WHAT is groundbreaking here?
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
How can anyone take most action films seriously?
You have men and women taking out a group of people by themselves. It's even more unbelievable when the fight scenes are choreographed. Still, it's entertaining for a lot of people.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
it's not a job.
It's emotions.
The whole game is about emotions fucking up their both lives
Markio128
Gold Member
But the fireflies were killing Ellie in the hope of saving humanity - the greater good you could argue. Nevertheless, both sides had their own reasons to kill. Then Joel not only had to live with lying to Ellie, but also potentially ending any hope for a cure.
You feel strongly for Joel because you only lived in Joel’s shoes up until that point. The whole point to TLOU2 was to show that there were two sides to the story. Abby lost her father ffs, who probably wasn’t even aware that Ellie hadn’t consented to the surgery.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
When pedos order their bear suit off Temu.It most certainly is that special little bear.
Schmendrick
Member
The story was about how to not drink and write story scripts.
The technological side of that game was amazing the writing absolutely piss poor.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I absolutely don’t agree.
The story is experimentally told but that makes it feel so real and emotional.
I feel like they are toying with my emotions. Real emotions because we were all angry and sad or annoyed.
FalconPunch
Gold Member
Nope the writers intended the game to be about revenge and the cost of revenge. Except the problem about the topic they chose is that it's been written to death. To make matters worse, their story wasn't well written nor did it explore uncharted avenues of discussion about the topic. Very mediocre.
GermanZepp
Member
Come on man, granted you liked the game, fair enough. "but one of the best in any media" damn.. you crossed the line.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yes. One of the best. Not the best maybe. One of.Come on man, granted you liked the game, fair enough. "but one of the best in any media" damn.. you crossed the line.
That game destroyed me. There are only few games to ever make me cry.
Of the top of my head that’s the last guardian, soma, ff15
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont think most people take action movies seriously. But there's still a realm of what makes sense and what doesnt. There's a difference between believability and seriousness.
When it comes to any game or movie, there's different settings, tones and expectations of disbelief.
Conan the Barbarian is as action packed and cheesy as it gets with meatheads, low budgets and James Earl Jones shooting snake arrows. There's also that giant snake in the pit that looks like it weighs 10 tons. It's silly but within that realm, there' stuff that can be believed and not. On the other hand, if suddenly spaceships landed and started shooting laser guns at everyone it wouldnt make sense. But a movie with tons of crazy snake worship it makes sense if there's wacky stuff with snakes.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I said it in one a different thread, but I hope Sony/ND listen to the complaints and change the look of the main character. They’ve done it in the past with infamous 2.
sainraja
Member
They could have given players those options and not made it canon. I mean, games have done different scenarios, etc in the past so it wouldn't be a new thing. Also, regarding the greater good, the cure, which wasn't guaranteed and puts the life of a child at risk. You gotta consider that.I simply see it as the Fireflies were thinking of the greater good, and Joel was thinking of the personal good. There’s no right or wrong. The fact that people still talk about it today speaks volumes tbh, and gives credence to how strong the characters were/are.
And who doesn’t take a whiff of their own farts?
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I'm not about to get into a "who started it" debate because if you want to get into that that would be Joel killing Abby's father but you think "Ellie was nothing like Joel" because Ellie killed a woman she didn't even know was pregnant. One who helped kill Joel.
"Her job"? She didn't do it in the end because she saw the cycle would continue with Lev and she's no better than Abby if she were to do it, leaving Lev with nobody, the person who convinced Abby not to kill Dina. She had a kid of her own at that point too. Waste of your time because you wanted to kill Abby in the end? Cool but the story wasn't really a waste. It was interesting. Ellie did make mistakes of seeking revenge though and by the end lost a life that would have been far better for her. That's shown when she gets home too.
McCarth
Member
I thought Neil was forced to pause TLOU2 to finish Uncharted 4 in Amy's place, and then a sizeable portion of the team retained on to complete Lost Legacy, further delaying TLOU2.
Would imply he had little if anything to do with her firing no? Doesn't make sense.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Is that a hole on the bear suits butt?It most certainly is that special little bear.
sainraja
Member
That was Sucker Punch and they had changed the character so much that it didn't look like Cole McGrath anymore. Delsin looked more like the character they had changed Cole into so they brought it back in a way. Anyway, ND designed the new character after the actor playing it. They could have gone with an original look so the character could become iconic but they are probably planning a TV or movie thing so... having a real actor play the character helps with that. I mean, come on everyone, the actor is a living human being so she looks like that.
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FalconPunch
Gold Member
AyraSutoraifu
Member
Maybe it's just a mission or a part of the game. Where you mostly play her with more hair.
Just to
FalsettoVibe
Member
The white lady who moved on to be a creative writer and consultant for Forspoken? Another game you guys despise? Whatever fits the narrative I guess...
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Schmendrick
Member
Not a single decision the retarded characters in that game made was outside of the "I just took 3 stripes of acid let's make an important decision" realm . It wasn't emotional just utterly stupid and unrealistic and don't even get me started on the whole abysmally tacked on Lev arc.
I loved the predecessor and I couldn't wait for this stupid drag to be over at the midpoint. The only reason I didn't drop it was that I simply couldn't believe that "that's it? This is the sequel to Lou.. Really?"
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proandrad
Member
Remastering old tropes in their new game.
Ulysses 31
Member
Again, I also take into consideration what's been shown in the game, the Salt Lake City Fireflies don't make a good first impression when they knock Joel out when he's clearly giving CPR to Ellie. They're in such a rush to perform the operation when there's no ticking time bomb in the story. They have plenty of opportunity to ask what Ellie wants. They were going to strand Joel without his gear in that infested city which is like a death sentence.
Even if they can extract a vaccine, it will take a lot more to start "curing the world"(like producing more, (fair)distribution and defending their stock) and nothing's been show they were up to the task. In fact they were close to disbanding so why should they be giving so much benefit of the doubt?
Ehm, the guy came up with the surgery that would 100% kill the patient. He should've verified with the patient after that finding. He didn't even wanted Joel to be informed about it. The guy's very unethical.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
Almost 100 pages free advertising for ND.
Markio128
Gold Member
DF have dropped a new video to discuss the trailer’s visuals. I’d drop the video in here, but I can’t through a combination of can’t be arsed, and ineptitude.
Interesting watch though, and when considering what ND did with the PS4 (in that a lot of recent games still don’t look as impressive as Uncharted 4), and that Intergalactic is their first true PS5 game, my hype is rising.
In summary, the guys were super impressed with the visuals in the trailer, running at 4K and 60fps, with no artefacts present, superb looking shadows, and impressive ray tracing.
Me thinks this game is going to be an absolute stunner.
Interesting watch though, and when considering what ND did with the PS4 (in that a lot of recent games still don’t look as impressive as Uncharted 4), and that Intergalactic is their first true PS5 game, my hype is rising.
In summary, the guys were super impressed with the visuals in the trailer, running at 4K and 60fps, with no artefacts present, superb looking shadows, and impressive ray tracing.
Me thinks this game is going to be an absolute stunner.
semiconscious
Member
yep. just because naughty dog chose to ignore ('re-imagine'?) this stuff (all of which was very deliberate & well thought out) when setting up tlou2? doesn't mean it wasn't there. at least in the copy of the last of us that i played...
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
Almost 100 pages free advertising for ND.
I'd more call it almost 100 pages of people discussing a trailer with most of it being geared towards calling Neil Cuckman and ND in 2024 trash. But hey, whatever floats your gaslighting boat.
Crystal Winters
Member
One thing I am curious about is that someone recently said that there were four hundred thousand dislikes on one of the trailers? Not saying they do not matter, but I am curious as to how many of those 4hk were never going to buy it in the first place and only wanted to downvote.
Also, let's say that each and every one of those 4hk truly do not buy the game, even used. What would that translate to in monetary losses, and would it be enough for ND to even care?
Also, let's say that each and every one of those 4hk truly do not buy the game, even used. What would that translate to in monetary losses, and would it be enough for ND to even care?
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