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[Diablos]

I swear to god if people are going to freak out this much about Rubio for the next year...

His candidacy is very threatening to me as a Democrat and a Rubio Presidency would be a disaster.

He is really good at deflecting and comes off as a modest guy; in reality he's a loon.

I hope enough of the youth and hispanic vote can see through his bullshit.

 

[benjipwns]

His candidacy is very threatening to me

An honor he holds alone.

 

[RDreamer]

His candidacy is very threatening to me as a Democrat and a Rubio Presidency would be a disaster.

He is really good at deflecting and comes off as a modest guy; in reality he's a loon.

I hope enough of the youth and hispanic vote can see through his bullshit.

He comes across as a lost little boy half the time to me. The contrast with Clinton's experience will be stark. He's awkward and won't be seen as presidential at all, in my opinion. Yelling about the main stream media works in a GOP debate, but it won't work in the general. His only accomplishment thus far in the race has been basically batting down a dying Bush campaign and being the last hope of the establishment. He hasn't had anything big or inspiring, he's mostly just stayed out of the way. Sure that's smart, but that doesn't mean it's something to wet your pants about.

I'm not saying Clinton's going to win it by a landslide or anything, but Rubio isn't some kryptonite at all. He'll have some big issues.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

The people freaking out over Rubio are ignoring his fundraising and infrastructure limitations. He just hasn't shown the ability to organize a national campaign the way that Clinton or even Sanders are doing.

 

[Diablos]

He comes across as a lost little boy half the time to me. The contrast with Clinton's experience will be stark. He's awkward and won't be seen as presidential at all, in my opinion. Yelling about the main stream media works in a GOP debate, but it won't work in the general. His only accomplishment thus far in the race has been basically batting down a dying Bush campaign and being the last hope of the establishment. He hasn't had anything big or inspiring, he's mostly just stayed out of the way. Sure that's smart, but that doesn't mean it's something to wet your pants about.

I'm not saying Clinton's going to win it by a landslide or anything, but Rubio isn't some kryptonite at all. He'll have some big issues.

See, all of this reminds me of Obama vs. McCain. The opposition said if Obama wins the nomination, despite his good looks and charisma, his lack of experience will be a major disadvantage when he goes up against a dinosaur like McCain who has boatloads of experience.

We all know how that turned out. I realize eight years of Bush helped Democrats no matter what, but Obama's lack of experience didn't prevent him from winning by a commanding amount of EV's and expanding his party's Senate majority.

The ironic thing to me is that we as Democrats are propping up the same kind of argument McCain supporters did in 2008 (which we feverishly argued against); a bit hypocritical, no?

The people freaking out over Rubio are ignoring his fundraising and infrastructure limitations. He just hasn't shown the ability to organize a national campaign the way that Clinton or even Sanders are doing.

...yet. Let Jeb!11 and some other fools get out of the way and you will see things start to magically readjust.

 

[benjipwns]

He comes across as a lost little boy half the time to me.

 

[RDreamer]

See, all of this reminds me of Obama vs. McCain. The opposition said if Obama wins the nomination, despite his good looks and charisma, his lack of experience will be a major disadvantage when he goes up against a dinosaur like McCain who has boatloads of experience.

We all know how that turned out. I realize eight years of Bush helped Democrats no matter what, but Obama's lack of experience didn't prevent him from winning by a commanding amount of EV's and expanding his party's Senate majority.

I think that's kind of a big fucking deal. After Bush and with the downswing that was happening the Democrats could have put up a literal donkey and still probably won. Not to diminish Obama's stellar campaigning at all, but come on. It's not going to be the same race as Obama vs McCain.

 

[benjipwns]

Hillary would have won.

But I don't know if Edwards would have. Although maybe becoming the candidate would have kept him from fucking up by going to the hotel where Hunter was and letting the rest of the media finally cover the story.

Though McCain freaking out and going CANCEL THE DEBATES WE HAVE TO SAVE THE WORLD BY BEING PRESENT WHILE OTHERS MAKE DECISIONS might have doomed him no matter what.

 

[Diablos]

Hillary would have won.

But I don't know if Edwards would have. Although maybe becoming the candidate would have kept him from fucking up by going to the hotel where Hunter was and letting the rest of the media finally cover the story.

Though McCain freaking out and going CANCEL THE DEBATES WE HAVE TO SAVE THE WORLD BY BEING PRESENT WHILE OTHERS MAKE DECISIONS might have doomed him no matter what.

Any decent Democrat would have won most likely, even Edwards, unless his dirty secret was revealed before election day. Oh man that would have been an unprecedented disaster.

I'm not talking about that though, I'm talking about the argument that Obama was not electable due to his lack of experience. Bush obviously gave him a big advantage, but he still managed to pull it off while going up against a treasured GOP elder who would have been a good President (for Republicans and some Independents).

Rubio is basically the GOP equivalent of this. To think otherwise is to underestimate his potential. Hillary is now the treasured elder with a lot of experience, and she's way more polarizing than McCain was to boot. Also, while Obama is not as hated (universally) as Dubya was, the end of his Presidency will excite the base, and matching that excitement with a young and charismatic guy is the best way for the GOP to capitalize on that.

 

[sc0la]

Better than now that Trump got in though. Trump is killing his campaign.

Trump is just the current vessel by which Jeb! is killing his own campaign.

 

[Eidan]

See, all of this reminds me of Obama vs. McCain. The opposition said if Obama wins the nomination, despite his good looks and charisma, his lack of experience will be a major disadvantage when he goes up against a dinosaur like McCain who has boatloads of experience.

We all know how that turned out. I realize eight years of Bush helped Democrats no matter what, but Obama's lack of experience didn't prevent him from winning by a commanding amount of EV's and expanding his party's Senate majority.

The ironic thing to me is that we as Democrats are propping up the same kind of argument McCain supporters did in 2008 (which we feverishly argued against); a bit hypocritical, no?

It's a standard line of attack when you have a veteran vs. a young buck. Clinton used it against Obama, McCain against Obama, and Clinton would use it against a Rubio, or Trump, candidacy. Not hypocrisy so much as business as usual. And the candidate being called a novice will have to convince the electorate why their lack of experience is a virtue. Obama did it. Trump seems to be doing it with the GOP electorate. It remains to be seen if Rubio could.

I personally don't think Rubio has a tenth of Obama's skill or charisma, and think he'll look like a petulant schoolboy next to Clinton.

 

[User 463088]

Rubio would not be my first choice to have to go against. However, I don't buy into the comparison between him and Obama. Rubio is nothing more than an establishment candidate in a slightly younger suit. I'm not talking about his lack of experience, but, instead, on his inability to create an excitement within the base. He doesn't have a core group of supporters like Obama did in 2008. I don't get the fascination with Rubio as being charismatic. I definitely don't see it. He hasn't shown an ability to raise funds. He hasn't shown a strong ground game, that I know of.

2008 was more of a repudiation of Bush than a vote for Obama. In that instance, the youthful nature of Obama's candidacy was a huge boom. Baring some huge disaster, I don't see 2016 being another Obama type election. I see it more as being an election for "steady as we go."

I also think that Bush does have a strategy with going after Rubio. If Bush thinks he can't win, I think he'd rather see someone like Trump or Carson (or even Cruz) get the nod. If Bush has any aspirations after this election, he would be best served by someone like Trump/Carson/Cruz getting the nod and then losing in the General. Then he can come back and say "We tried it your way, it didn't work. Now pick me this time so we can win." I feel the only way to really shut up the far, far, far right is to let them get their perfect Messiah, let him/her lose, and then hope they shut up. (They won't, of course. They'll just say they need a real conservative, etc.)

Edit: Also, Luke Russert is kinda hot, just saying.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Obama was a much better orator, fundraiser and campaigner, following on from a President that embroiled the US in unpopular wars, who managed to sell a message of hopium to drive youth vote as well as black turnout with a history making candidacy against a really old white man. Obama was also tested in a bunch of substantive debates by a strong primary challenger in Clinton.

I mean, a Rubio Presidency would be historic too. But I don't think his current backtracking on immigration positions is endearing him to Hispanic voters. The youth aren't going to hope and change with the GOP. And he'd face an opposing campaign that also had history making potential.

Everyone seems to want to compare campaigns and candidacies to Obama. Sanders. Rubio. I guess it makes sense since he won. But I don't really see how they work when you drill down into the details of his success.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Bush will likely destroy Rubio and allow him to limp to the general so when he loses Bush can come back and say "I told you sold"

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Hillary's Response.

Oh my god, that's perfect.

I missed the debate, and other than hearing the the cadidates went after the moderators, I haven't heard much about it.

It occurs to me that I have been out of town for every one of these so far, although I listened or watched the other two. Instead, this time I went to a(n awesome) lesbian musical. I think I spent my time better this time around.

 

[Konka]

Can we please stop comparing Rubio to Obama.

 

[RustyNails]

Any decent Democrat would have won most likely, even Edwards, unless his dirty secret was revealed before election day. Oh man that would have been an unprecedented disaster.

I'm not talking about that though, I'm talking about the argument that Obama was not electable due to his lack of experience. Bush obviously gave him a big advantage, but he still managed to pull it off while going up against a treasured GOP elder who would have been a good President (for Republicans and some Independents).

Rubio is basically the GOP equivalent of this. To think otherwise is to underestimate his potential. Hillary is now the treasured elder with a lot of experience, and she's way more polarizing than McCain was to boot. Also, while Obama is not as hated (universally) as Dubya was, the end of his Presidency will excite the base, and matching that excitement with a young and charismatic guy is the best way for the GOP to capitalize on that.

To say Rubio is equivalent of Obama is strictly superficial, and that amounts to nothing in the grand sche of things. To win an election, you need to have a winning message, whether it's within your own caucus or the general election. The optics of "old person vs new person on stage" which PD-like pundits like to harp about makes an insignificant dent in polling. We have elected old dinosaurs before. But a lot of what's needed is context-sensitive and something that is appealing to a big segment of the population. McCain was able to bring his campaign back by talking about the surge and his experience to finish the job. All of his speeches talk about it, and it rallied the Republicans to him. Obama's winning card wasn't his charm, but his iraq war vote. Similarly, that same thing was Hillary's downfall. Remember, in 2007 we were still in iraq war. Yes Obama's oratory skills are legendary, and they helped him a lot because again, in the context of 2007, after 8 years of a president that had trouble putting basic sentences together, it really was refreshing.

If Obama had voted for Iraq war and Hillary against, I can see Hillary beating him despite his people skills. That was the issue of the day. What's Rubio's winning card? That he's young? It's not gonna work. He is a young man with old ideas, thats all that needs to be said. Today's mood is mostly about income inequality and democrats are well suited to handle that.

Also, Obama was always smart and professor-ey besides being a gifted speaker. He had absolutely no issues detailing and talking about universal healthcare (rip) or taxes. I have not seen any in-depth policy discussions with Marco that does not have him fidgeting in his seat and being agitated and aggressive.

 

[pigeon]

Why is Rubio the best general election candidate?

First, whether you like it or not, identity politics still matter. And Rubio is hispanic.

First off, no. But secondly, Rubio is Cuban. Don't make the mistake of not being able to tell Hispanic people apart. Hispanic people don't.

 

[User 463088]

Well, they got Paul. So, let's see how much better the GOP in the House will govern now. I'm sure they'll become a bastion of political expediency.

Haahahahahaha.

Edit: Also, fuck Joe Scarborough.

Edit Second: Shock. Boehner is crying.

 

[benjipwns]

Any decent Democrat would have won most likely, even Edwards, unless his dirty secret was revealed before election day. Oh man that would have been an unprecedented disaster.

Enquirer broke the story in October 2007. The rest of the media finally agreed to end its gag order on it in July 2008 after more Enquirer reporting and pictures. And by August he admitted the affair but was still denying paternity.

And then it came out that his campaign workers were wondering if they needed to plan a sabotage strategy if he came close to the nomination lol

And several had left in the early stages of the campaign when he wouldn't break it off.

That->Palin->Economic Crisis back to back to back would have been something.

 

[Plinko]

Bush will likely destroy Rubio and allow him to limp to the general so when he loses Bush can come back and say "I told you sold"

This will never happen.

As for Paul Ryan, a big LOL to everyone on here who insisted he wouldn't take it.

 

[NeoXChaos]

This will never happen.

probably not but the Bush family is not going down without a fight.

Bush can't do shit.

"Bush Money".

 

[Tarkus]

Pelosi pretty much blowing Boehner here

 

[Y2Kev]

Bush will likely destroy Rubio and allow him to limp to the general so when he loses Bush can come back and say "I told you sold"

Bush can't do shit.

 

[User 463088]

Ugh. Paul Ryan. I was hoping we were mostly done with him after 2012. I'm still surprised, although not shocked, he agreed to do this.

 

[And_Gignac]

First off, no. But secondly, Rubio is Cuban. Don't make the mistake of not being able to tell Hispanic people apart. Hispanic people don't.

This. Hispanics at large (outside Florida, that is) wouldn't vote for Rubio.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

...yet. Let Jeb!11 and some other fools get out of the way and you will see things start to magically readjust.

Rubio's being out fundraised by Cruz and Carson and Trump has a better infrastructure in Iowa and New Hampshire. Can you imagine Obama every falling behind guys like that?

 

[NeoXChaos]

Rubio's being out fundraised by Cruz and Carson and Trump has a better infrastructure in Iowa and New Hampshire. Can you imagine Obama every falling behind guys like that?

I read he did not have a SC operation. Is that true?

 

[benjipwns]

All sorts of people are sitting on their hands, so many of the campaigns are lacking in staff/funding.

 

[Tarkus]

Gotta admit, I just got chills listening to Ryan speak.

 

[User 463088]

Gotta admit, I just got chills listening to Ryan speak.

I felt an intense wave of nausea, but I was putting it down to residual alcohol from last night.

His little "Heh" after every line he thinks deserves a laugh or response is hilarious to me.

 

[benjipwns]

Clinton campaign crisis continues: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...rs-has-better-record-on-veterans-than-hillary

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) says Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has a better track record when it comes to caring for veterans than Hillary Clinton.

McCain said the Vermont senator, who is competing with Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination next year, worked hard for veterans in his role as chairman of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee.

“The fact is we were able to come together and pass legislation that was nearly unanimous in both the House and the Senate, so he does have a record of advocacy for our veterans,” he said in response to a question about the candidates' positions on veterans' issues during a press call on Wednesday. “To my knowledge, I know of no activity, legislative or otherwise, that Hillary Clinton was engaged in during her time as a United States senator,” he added.

McCain’s comments follow the former secretary of State's statement that lengthy delays for patients seeking treatment at Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) hospitals are not a “widespread” problem.

McCain, who was a Vietnam prisoner of war, said the comments call into question Clinton’s qualifications to serve as commander in chief.

“I would say that if Hillary Clinton really believes the comments that she made, I don’t see how any veteran who cares about their fellow veterans could possibly have any good things, nor could support her quest for being commander in chief,” he said.

“[The] commander in chief not only sends the young men and women into conflicts, but [the] commander in chief has an obligation, as Abraham Lincoln so eloquently stated, about our care for the widows and the wounded,” he added.

“So, I would say that a veteran looking at her comments would question her qualifications to be commander in chief.”

 

[HylianTom]

Bush can't do shit.

If anyone bloodies a non-Trump nominee before the general, going to be Trump.

I'm still wondering what the endgame looks like. If it's a scenario where Bush hobbles along (as he currently insists he will), and Rubio is there with Cruz and Trump.. the potential of a background deal - mutual endorsement/running mate/armistice - that Cruz and Trump may have will loom large.

 

[Tarkus]

I felt an intense wave of nausea, but I was putting it down to residual alcohol from last night.

His little "Heh" after every line he thinks deserves a laugh or response is hilarious to me.

You should be happy to be alive after the drinking rules you set forth.

 

[User 463088]

You should be happy to be alive after the drinking rules you set forth.

I'm dead on the inside, if that counts.

What is it with Republicans and water? Speaker Ryan is freaking guzzling that shit down.

 

[Makai]

Paul D. Ryan.

I'm not going to get used to that.

 

[Tarkus]

I'm dead on the inside, if that counts.

What is it with Republicans and water? Speaker Ryan is freaking guzzling that shit down.

Product placement. Republicans have stock in Aquafina.

 

[Makai]

Jeb fell below Carson on Predictwise. lol

 

[Makai]

Fuck, I haven't seen a single positive Jeb article. Literally everything is "Jeb is doomed."

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Ehh I don't see Rubio with a lot of charisma - more like a young Mitt.

Either way, any candidate at this point scares me for different reasons. Carson because he's comfy with crazy tea partiers and may pull some of the black vote, Rubio because he appeals to anti-science christians and the hispanic vote, Trump because he just seems to attract attention, and Cruz for a similar reason as Trump BUT also the tea partiers.

Unless Bush pulls a miracle debate (which isn't out of question - I'm sure the moment he can shine everyone will try to back him), I can't be too afraid of him. But this is also why I'd want Bush to win the Primary too if I had known he was so gaffe prone.

 

[Farmboy]

I disagree with the "Rubio is the second most electable one behind Kasich but Kasich has no chance". Kasich has the Ohio-factor and the fact that he's more moderate (though this has been overstated) than the others, but he comes across as a bit of a dick (probably because he is one). Not charismatic at all and gaffe-prone. Rubio > Kasich.

A case could be made for Christie being the biggest (or second biggest) threat in the general. But he has even less of a chance than Kasich to get the nom.

 

[Makai]

Ehh I don't see Rubio with a lot of charisma - more like a young Mitt.

Either way, any candidate at this point scares me for different reasons. Carson because he's comfy with crazy tea partiers and may pull some of the black vote, Rubio because he appeals to anti-science christians and the hispanic vote, Trump because he just seems to attract attention, and Cruz for a similar reason as Trump BUT also the tea partiers.

Unless Bush pulls a miracle debate (which isn't out of question - I'm sure the moment he can shine everyone will try to back him), I can't be too afraid of him. But this is also why I'd want Bush to win the Primary too if I had known he was so gaffe prone.

I would be flat-out shocked if Carson ate into Hillary's support among black voters. You've seen his positions, right?

 

[benjipwns]

A case could be made for Christie being the biggest (or second biggest)

I don't think Huckabee's gained that much weight back.

 

[User 463088]

Bernie's Brain Trust

Anyone see this article? Not sure if it was posted here or not, yet, so forgive me if it was.

I gotta say, some of Bernie's campaign staff sound like complete asses. (Which is par for the course for anyone involved in running a campaign, but still...) I never was a fan of Devine, but he comes off even more of an ass than usual. Some of the things that stuck out to me:

“A craven hypocrite?” Weaver replied, grinning slyly. “That's a little bit harsh, don't you think?” Then he added, with a chuckle, “Look, she'd make a great vice president. We're willing to give her more credit than Obama did. We're willing to consider her for vice president. We'll give her serious consideration. We'll even interview her.”

Wow. Condescending much?

“I don't think they fully appreciate the magnitude of how voters are impacted by what happens in those early states. The negative narrative that will come around her. The positive narrative that will accompany him. The big qualitative difference beyond that that we enjoy that, for example, Gary Hart did not, is the fund-raising system we've put in place. If we have early success in Iowa and New Hampshire, a few days after we could bring in $40 or $50 million cash, new money, out of this thing that we built. And then they're all tapped out. They're trying to squeeze for dough. Because the thing will have been close in Iowa and New Hampshire. They've already placed a purchase of $14 million in television buys in just Iowa and New Hampshire, and I think they'll be at $20 or $25 million by then because they'll feel so much pressure to win, they'll just be dumping millions into this thing. We'll come out of that with a huge flush of cash like Obama did and then we will start to move systematically in the states that follow with massive media buys. And unless the Clintons are willing to give up $20 or $30 million of their own money, they're just not going to be able to compete with us in cash. The dynamic of that campaign is something I don't think they fully appreciate.

So, after the marathon that was 2008, Sander's people really think Hillary's campaign wouldn't know how to run a long, drawn out primary fight? Really? That's really what they're hanging their hat on? Good luck with that...

“You know, Bernie because of his life story has the potential to appeal to African-Americans. I know he hasn't been there, he hasn't really done it, but the truth is we come in with 10,000 points on TV about his life and his story and his programs. You know, living wage, health insurance for all, free college from kids, testimonials from African-Americans, interesting African-American leaders who have been for him. We start to reassure people about his connection to them. And we don't have to win 50 percent of the African-American vote in South Carolina to win. Probably only need to win 30 percent. So we start to put that thing together, I think we can move this very quickly towards him and the dynamic of the campaign is going to overwhelm any pre-existing advantage...and then proportional representation kicks in, which is a great advantage to anybody who gets ahead. Ask Obama, ask Jimmy Carter in 1980, the same thing happened there—you get ahead, you can't lose.”

Emphasis mine.

The first bolded statement is part of the problem. Sanders has never been there. He's never done it for the African American community. Telling his story over and over doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The Clintons have been there. They have thrown their voices and support behind the African American community. This isn't just a box you get to check when it becomes politically relevant. He's been in public life for, what, 25 years, now? He's never made these connections, but his campaign thinks they can do it in 100 days? I also question their math regarding the 30% AA vote they think they can get in SC and still win. But, again, this shows how his campaign has basically turned any issue Bernie's not 100% great on into a quest to do just well enough.

Clearly, his campaign has decided to not let Bernie be Bernie. They tried that, and I guess they weren't happy with the result. So, now they're going to try to turn him into something else, and see what sticks? I think this reinforces the idea that Bernie really didn't expect to win. It seems like they're making all of this up as they go along. Far more reactionary than I would have thought a serious Presidential campaign should be.

Clearly, there's a big difference between Bernie the man and Bernie 2016 (his campaign.) I can't see him going along with them on all of this stuff, but maybe he's drinking their Kool Aide as well.

 

[Plinko]

Trump is winning all the online polls but it's clear he's got an online presence out there like Ron Paul did. He has to be paying people to do this.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I read he did not have a SC operation. Is that true?

Its possible, I guess, but its hard to imagine a credible candidate not having some kind of infrastructure in SC. Maybe he has some volunteers but no official office or something?

 

[Konka]

Trump is winning all the online polls but it's clear he's got an online presence out there like Ron Paul did. He has to be paying people to do this.

They'll try to make Rubio happen, but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[ivysaur12]

lol PPP has Deborah Ross in 4 points of Burr since announcing with still almost no name recognition. 43/39.

 

[User 463088]

New Pennsylvania primary polls

Hillary 52%
Bernie 18%
Other 12% (Who could this be?)

Trump 23%
Carson 22%
Rubio 13%
Kasich 6%
Cruz 4%
Christie 3%
Fiorina 3%
Bush 3%

Hahahahaha.

Results of Poll

 

[benjipwns]

Its possible, I guess, but its hard to imagine a credible candidate not having some kind of infrastructure in SC. Maybe he has some volunteers but no official office or something?

Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, Jon Huntsman and Rick Santorum weren't on the Virginia primary ballot in 2012 because they didn't know how to collect signatures to get on it (Gingrich and Perry) or they forgot to file (Huntsman and Santorum).

This wasn't the only state this happened in either.

And even worse the Santorum campaign didn't know how caucuses worked, so for example he got zero delegates from Iowa despite winning the straw poll.