Support NeoGAF

[The Lamonster]

If Bernie loses the nomination, he will demand an apology from the NY Daily News.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Break Up The NY Daily News!

 

[And_Gignac]

#occupyCNN clearly worked.

On the interview re:jibber jabber word salad:



I'm kind of curious as an avowed supporter whether that interview gives you the slightest of pause. Or rather more so than just the interview, the broader issues it highlights with Sanders as a presidential candidate and/or President.

I have always seen him as a motive-pusher / not a policy maker, so no surprises there.

I am disappointed in the sense of him not being responsible enough to even anticipate that such questions would arise and that he needs specific solutions. He needs to be more responsible with the role he is playing not only in US politics, but as the symbol he has become to a section of the international left. I am disappointed because the interview is the culmination of a behavior he has continuously presented since he started to take himself seriously as a contender.

This complacent attitude is, well, very disappointing.

 

[noshten]

McClatchy/Marist National

Clinton 47
Sanders 49


- Poll finds that only 14 percent of Clinton supporters would not back Sanders
- 25 percent of Sanders supports would not back Hillary
- He leads 76-23 percent among those 29 and younger; 63-31 percent among Latinos; 62-32 among independents; 58-38 among the unmarried; and 56-42 among liberals.
- Clinton leads 65-29 percent among those 60 and older; 61-35 among African-Americans; 57-39 among the married; and 53-43 among Democrats.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article70202867.html

momentum

 

[Slayven]

https://twitter.com/DavidChalian/status/717554988109721600


Bless your heart Weaver. How dare a woman show some ambition; she must have some ulterior motive... like destroying the Democratic Party.

Eyes can't roll hard enough.


*edit:

West Wing too perfect for this.

The party Bernie gives no fucks about?

 

[Iolo]

You know these national polls are less and less relevant as more and more states actually vote.

(Between CA and the convention, expect national head to head polls to be repeatedly raised as a last ditch effort)

 

[B-Dubs]

The only polls that matter at this point are state polls and anyone still doing national polls for the primaries is an idiot.

 

[Macho Madness]

National polls mean 'something' but they are less significant now more than ever. If they break it down by states who have yet to vote, that's something.

Also they tend to be all over the place from Bernie up by a few to Bernie down by 10+. *shrug*

 

[gcubed]

National polls mean 'something' but they are less significant now more than ever. If they break it down by states who have yet to vote, that's something.

Also they tend to be all over the place from Bernie up by a few to Bernie down by 10+. *shrug*

And up by over 30 with Latinos! This must be the retroactive momentum from retroactively winning Nevada

 

[Azzanadra]

McClatchy/Marist National

Clinton 47
Sanders 49


- Poll finds that only 14 percent of Clinton supporters would not back Sanders
- 25 percent of Sanders supports would not back Hillary
- He leads 76-23 percent among those 29 and younger; 63-31 percent among Latinos; 62-32 among independents; 58-38 among the unmarried; and 56-42 among liberals.
- Clinton leads 65-29 percent among those 60 and older; 61-35 among African-Americans; 57-39 among the married; and 53-43 among Democrats.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article70202867.html

momentum

"Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon."

I understand politics is all about compromise- but were I an American, Hillary would be too much of a compromise. At that point this "picking the lesser evil" business becomes depressing and perpetual in picking leaders who don't do shit. She's like Frank Underwood, except Frank Underwood is charismatic at least.

Even if your a Hillary fan, i can understand supporting most of her policies in a neocon-ish sort of way, but what defence to people have for her foreign policy? The whole "I love Israel" rhetoric sounds toxic from the perspective of a progressive. GG Palestinians, prepare for another eight years of disenfranchisement! At least Obama hated BiBi, so there was a sign of progress behind the blind love.

 

[Loudninja]

So what was the final split from last night?

 

[Macho Madness]

So what was the final split from last night?

Green Papers says Sanders cut into her delegate lead by 9. Underperformed his 538 target.

Mind you, I'M NOT TRYING TO SPIN THIS INTO BAD NEWS FOR BERNIE. But them's the breaks.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Clinton lead is now +206 correct after WI?

 

[pigeon]

"Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon."

Good way to get literally blown into smithereens by God Himself.

Even if your a Hillary fan, i can understand supporting most of her policies in a neocon-ish sort of way,

Or you could actually know about them and support them as progressive steps forward towards a better society.

but what defence to people have for her foreign policy?

Not much. It's not great. There just aren't any better options. Sanders is too disinterested in foreign policy to be trusted with the military-industrial complex and its siren song of war. Except when he's interested in it enough to propose trade policies that will impoverish people across the globe!

 

[Iolo]

Green Papers says Sanders cut into her delegate lead by 9. Underperformed his 538 target.

Mind you, I'M NOT TRYING TO SPIN THIS INTO BAD NEWS FOR BERNIE. But them's the breaks.

NBC had it at 10 but Green Papers seems to be more accurate.

 

[Loudninja]

Green Papers says Sanders cut into her delegate lead by 9. Underperformed his 538 target.

Mind you, I'M NOT TRYING TO SPIN THIS INTO BAD NEWS FOR BERNIE. But them's the breaks.

Ok wow that did not amount to much at all.

That was 82 delegates as well.

 

[And_Gignac]

Greenpapers says Sanders cut into her delegate lead by 9. Underperformed his 538 target.

NYT says 47 (50 was his target) vs 36. By raw proportions he should get 49, but again I dunno about supers.

And wow at that 49% poll.

I still remember when Sanders ceiling was 30% :lol

 

[Y2Kev]

I think green papers has five delegates still outstanding.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Need more data before I believe a poll that says Sanders is up 30 with Latinos.

 

[Holmes]

Quinnipiac is just embarrassing at this point.

 

[Macho Madness]

I'd buy Bernie winning Latinos if there were any results in the states so far that said so. We've had plenty of states where there's been significant populations. And no, not Nevada's bunk entrance polls.

 

[superdeluxe]

This was just in my feed:

Bernie is leading!

Spoiler

If you count by states, and call Hillary's victories "ties."

At least they gave Hillary Arizona.

 

[Bowdz]

"Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon."

I understand politics is all about compromise- but were I an American, Hillary would be too much of a compromise. At that point this "picking the lesser evil" business becomes depressing and perpetual in picking leaders who don't do shit. She's like Frank Underwood, except Frank Underwood is charismatic at least.

Even if your a Hillary fan, i can understand supporting most of her policies in a neocon-ish sort of way, but what defence to people have for her foreign policy? The whole "I love Israel" rhetoric sounds toxic from the perspective of a progressive. GG Palestinians, prepare for another eight years of disenfranchisement! At least Obama hated BiBi, so there was a sign of progress behind the blind love.

I respect her on foreign policy because she was THE driving force pushing the pivot to Asia which is not only the most intelligent strategic move for the US going forward, it also gets us out of the Middle East ad a consequence. She negotiated START 2, laid the groundwork for the Iran Nuclear deal, pushed women's rights around the world more than any other poltician, and had an enormous role in Myanmar opening up.

Yes, she has more hawkish tendencies, but her views on Syria are overblown considering we are in essence in the same degree of engagement today that she was advocating long before ISIS metastasized in full in Syria (e.g. air strikes, special forces, drones). Writ large, she has been an extremely effective diplomat and has a keen understanding of the world.

 

[Holmes]

I'd buy Bernie winning Latinos if there were any results in the states so far that said so. We've had plenty of states where there's been significant populations. And no, not Nevada's bunk entrance polls.

I believe his best performance among latinos was in Illinois due to his campaign's not-so-subtle negative campaign against Clinton there. And I think her best performance with latinos was in Florida (edging out Texas) because she has big support among Puerto Ricans and any Cubans on the fence were probably off put by Sanders' Castro comments.

 

[Box of Kittens]

This was just in my feed:

Bernie is leading!

Spoiler

If you count by states, and call Hillary's victories "ties."

It's like when Republicans try to claim that well-known blue states are actually red states because they have more Republican-leaning counties.

 

[Officerrob]

McClatchy/Marist National

Clinton 47
Sanders 49


- Poll finds that only 14 percent of Clinton supporters would not back Sanders
- 25 percent of Sanders supports would not back Hillary
- He leads 76-23 percent among those 29 and younger; 63-31 percent among Latinos; 62-32 among independents; 58-38 among the unmarried; and 56-42 among liberals.
- Clinton leads 65-29 percent among those 60 and older; 61-35 among African-Americans; 57-39 among the married; and 53-43 among Democrats.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article70202867.html

momentum

Bernie leads by 32% of Latinos nationally? Yeah, I sure as hell am not going to believe that

 

[Goodstyle]

Very pleased to hear that Sanders' interview is getting more and more exposure from the press. What's more, is that there's questionable stuff in it that most critics haven't even touched yet.

He's finally getting called on his shit, I hope that hobbles his momentum and that it becomes a major point in the debate.

 

[superdeluxe]

I find it hard to believe that Sanders has a lead greater with latinos, then does clinton with AA.

Especially considering Clinton has won latinos by a fair margin across all the contests we have seen.

 

[Holmes]

Guys, it's a shit poll. The only polls that matters in the next two weeks are for New York.

 

[superdeluxe]

So if Clinton takes PA easier than NY (if you are to believe the polls), what is the possible reason behind that? Better Demos?

 

[Iolo]

Green Papers says Sanders cut into her delegate lead by 9. Underperformed his 538 target.

Mind you, I'M NOT TRYING TO SPIN THIS INTO BAD NEWS FOR BERNIE. But them's the breaks.

OK looking at the 538 counts, Sanders underperformed by 1, but Hillary underperformed by 2. That means there are 3 delegates outstanding, so he's going to meet or exceed his target (barely).

 

[Farmboy]

OK looking at the 538 counts, Sanders underperformed by 1, but Hillary underperformed by 2. That means there are 3 delegates outstanding, so he's going to meet or exceed his target (barely).

Actually, the counts don't always add up to the total number of delegates at stake, I think.

 

[Gotchaye]

Actually, the counts don't always add up to the total number of delegates at stake, I think.

If they did then it would be possible for both to meet their targets in every state and to both have a majority of delegates.

 

[theprodigy]

OK looking at the 538 counts, Sanders underperformed by 1, but Hillary underperformed by 2. That means there are 3 delegates outstanding, so he's going to meet or exceed his target (barely).

Are you looking at the original targets or the revised ones?

 

[Macho Madness]

You should be looking at this one by the way: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-really-hard-to-get-bernie-sanders-988-more-delegates/

 

[jack_package_200]

This Onion article from ten years ago is fitting considering Weaver's bullshit comments last night http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/hillary-clinton-is-too-ambitious-to-be-the-first-f-11229

 

[Drek]

Even if your a Hillary fan, i can understand supporting most of her policies in a neocon-ish sort of way, but what defence to people have for her foreign policy? The whole "I love Israel" rhetoric sounds toxic from the perspective of a progressive. GG Palestinians, prepare for another eight years of disenfranchisement! At least Obama hated BiBi, so there was a sign of progress behind the blind love.

You know that Obama paid the same lip service to Israel during both of his campaigns, right? He didn't hate Bibi, he saw the writing on the wall that Netanyahu was looking to drag the U.S. into another ME conflict to better stabilize Israel by tearing everyone else down. Obama laid the groundwork to defuse that attempt with Clinton when she was Sec. of State.

Also, Hillary Clinton has supported a two state solution in the past including her own husband's attempt at one with the Clinton Parameters. Of all active politicians she is the most knowledgeable about how to achieve a two state solution.

The warhawk narrative really needs to die. None of her political stances are that simplistic. She has made well reasoned arguments before, during, and after any support for foreign action she has supported. Her record is as strong as it can be for someone actually working in a high level capacity.

The pressures from the military industrial complex, various allied nations, and the desire to prevent loss of human life makes a non-interventionist role for the POTUS a non-starter. It simply doesn't work. Instead a POTUS needs to run one step ahead of potential conflicts and defuse through other methods as best as possible.

 

[DataStream]

Clinton (or perhaps Bams) needs to reach out to Sanders and meet with him personally prior to the debate. Her going in on him for being vague is going to just see him attack her more directly, causing unnecessary turmoil in the party. It is obvious he is going to ride this out and getting him to be smarter about party support to get his voters on board with local Democratic candidates is warranted.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Clinton (or perhaps Bams) needs to reach out to Sanders and meet with him personally prior to the debate. Her going in on him for being vague is going to just see him attack her more directly, causing unnecessary turmoil in the party. It is obvious he is going to ride this out and getting him to be smarter about party support to get his voters on board with local Democratic candidates is warranted.

We'll see.

 

[Boney]

Clinton (or perhaps Bams) needs to reach out to Sanders and meet with him personally prior to the debate. Her going in on him for being vague is going to just see him attack her more directly, causing unnecessary turmoil in the party. It is obvious he is going to ride this out and getting him to be smarter about party support to get his voters on board with local Democratic candidates is warranted.

I don't understand why you guys are so worried about this. Bernie has been on record saying that if he were to lose he'd mobilize people because he doesn't want the republicans continuing to ruin the country.

Sure there's some folks that are getting a bit rabbid in terms of Hillary hatred, but the core essence of Bernie's campaign which I'm sure he'd reinforce in his speech is about everybody especially young folks to participate in the democratic process. And I'm pretty sure he'd be super hell bent on making his followers understand that.

 

[Iolo]

You should be looking at this one by the way: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-really-hard-to-get-bernie-sanders-988-more-delegates/

I see. I was looking at http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/ instead.

But, with 3 outstanding delegates, he could still just reach 50.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

"Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon."

I understand politics is all about compromise- but were I an American, Hillary would be too much of a compromise. At that point this "picking the lesser evil" business becomes depressing and perpetual in picking leaders who don't do shit. She's like Frank Underwood, except Frank Underwood is charismatic at least.

Even if your a Hillary fan, i can understand supporting most of her policies in a neocon-ish sort of way, but what defence to people have for her foreign policy? The whole "I love Israel" rhetoric sounds toxic from the perspective of a progressive. GG Palestinians, prepare for another eight years of disenfranchisement! At least Obama hated BiBi, so there was a sign of progress behind the blind love.

You're quoting a right wing zealot willing to let everything go to hell for the sake of principle. Ted Cruz would approve!

I don't see Hillary's domestic policies neoconservative in any way whatsoever. Regarding her foreign policy, I'm not a fan of what I've learned recently about her recommendations made as SoS, but she's also shown the ability to learn from mistakes, rather than double down on them. I can accept that, although no candidate is my perfect foreign policy candidate. Hillary is better than Bernie.

 

[thefro]

Nate Dawg says Ted Cruz would win a contested convention, not Kasich/Ryan.

It’s like something out of an Aaron Sorkin script. After their bitterly divisive primary, the Republican delegates come together to nominate John Kasich on the fourth ballot at a contested convention in Cleveland, despite his having won only his home state of Ohio. Or they choose House Speaker Paul Ryan, despite his not having run in the primaries at all. Balloons descend from the ceiling, celestial choirs sing and everything is right again with the Republican Party, which goes on to beat Hillary Clinton in a landslide in November.

As I said, it’s like something out of a TV show. In other words: probably fiction. It’s not that hard to imagine a contested convention. In fact, with Donald Trump’s path to 1,237 delegates looking tenuous, especially after his loss in Wisconsin on Tuesday night, it’s a real possibility. And it’s not hard to see how Republicans might think of Kasich or Ryan as good nominees. If Republicans were starting from scratch, both might be pretty good picks, especially from the perspective of the party “establishment” in Washington.

But Republicans won’t be starting from scratch, and the “establishment” won’t pick the party’s nominee. The 2,472 delegates in Cleveland will. And most of them will be chosen at state or local party conventions a long way from Washington. Few will be household names, having quietly attended party gatherings in Fargo, North Dakota, or Cheyenne, Wyoming, for years with little remuneration or recognition. Although the proverbial Acela-riding insiders might dream of Ryan or Kasich, there are indications that the rank-and-file delegates are into Ted Cruz — and they’re the ones who will have votes in Cleveland.

 

[thiscoldblack]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

 

[Macho Madness]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

This place does have a Hillary lean for sure but we're willing to discuss things civilly for the most part.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

I don't even know what this means? What do you want us to do? Actively screen the people who post hard so they accurately reflect the current % of the race?

And this is a pretty civil place. If you have a point, debate it!

 

[Orbis Tabula]

So, when are we looking at Ted finally being mathematically eliminated? I think there's a chance it could happen by New York, and if not then, by the end of April. Once that happens, I think it pretty much gives Trump a clear line to use for the rest of the primary season.

 

[jack_package_200]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

Oh please,I am sure many people here like myself were a supporter of Bernie before realizing he didn't have a way of implementing his ideas and his overall attitude to the party.

Besided there are plenty of Bernie supporters here.

 

[Hindl]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

Reasonable Sanders supporters are welcome here. It's just more often that most Sanders supporters see his positions being challenged here and take that as "Bernie Hate" and "Hillary Stans". If you asked, you'd find several of Hillary's most ardent supporters here readily admit her faults as a candidate.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Oh, I thought this was PoliGAF 2016 |OT4|, not HillaryGAF 2016 |OT4|. This is just like r/politics being a second subreddit for r/sandersforpresident.

ffs..

Hey, I like Bernie and I haven't been down voted into silence yet. It's not that bad.

I like Hillary, too, though. Maybe that's why. Or they haven't noticed me yet!