User 463088
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That and he needs to stop defending it by saying she said it first! He went negative. He has to own that shit. By pushing back saying she did something she didn't do it makes him look cray-cray.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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That and he needs to stop defending it by saying she said it first! He went negative. He has to own that shit. By pushing back saying she did something she didn't do it makes him look cray-cray.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
User 463088
Banned
Yup. Totally free. After you put in your address, they'll ask for a donation, but you don't have to donate to get the stickers. I've gotten a couple from the campaign without donating.
Lolwut. How does "not qualified" sound sexist? If he said "Clinton's gender has made her inadequate for office" I would agree, but he used a statement that could be used in a hundred different contexts, and the first thing that pops into most people's minds with that statement is a a person having an inadequate resume.
Hillary praises the Reagans for their actions on AIDS and no one bats an eye... Bernie says something misinterpreted to be sexist, and everyone loses theirs minds.
shinra-bansho
Member
The same way saying someone of colour is articulate is racist?
Or telling someone they don't look gay at all isn't okay?
Because sexism isn't all about calling women bitches and hos.
I don't necessarily think Sanders is being sexist. But people hand waving that often discussion around women and qualifications is sexist are way off base.
Or telling someone they don't look gay at all isn't okay?
Because sexism isn't all about calling women bitches and hos.
I don't necessarily think Sanders is being sexist. But people hand waving that often discussion around women and qualifications is sexist are way off base.
And_Gignac
Member
Same way the GOP uses dog whistles to stir up racial resentment in their base.
Just because it's not explicit, doesn't mean it's not implicitly understood.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think Sanders broke Melkr.
Bro, everyone here lost their shit over that statement.
User 463088
Banned
When Hillary did praise Reagan, a fuck ton of us batted an eye, and we called her out on it. And guess what? She admitted she was wrong, and she apologized. End of. Bernie has doubled down on his lie, and is using it to fund raise.
As to seeing sexist connotation in it, women hear "not qualified" all the damn time. When my mom heard it, the first thing her mind went to was that no one in their right mind would call Hillary unqualified if she was a man. You don't always have to be sexist or even overtly sexist to say things that can be construed in a sexist manner.
plagiarize
Banned
How his team haven't put together a list of charged words that female voters will likely react to, I have no idea. Yes, I know what he meant, but this isn't the first time we've had that rodeo of him accidentally using language that carries with it certain connotations.
That's why I always laugh at the notion that Trump would stump Clinton in a debate. He'd attack her and use gendered insults... and he'd be done with female voters and a lot of male ones too. I don't think he could stop himself.
Why is she dressed as Bulma though. Should be dressed as Freezer.
Android 18's outfit when she's awakened by Dr. Gero.
Officerrob
Banned
You were obviously NOT in this thread that day then...
Thunder Monkey
Banned
There's this thing common in American politics called "coded language".
Like until Trump, Reps would connect violence and immigrants together while never outright saying "Mexicans are rapists".
Saying a woman is unqualified for a leadership position can be read that way. That even though she's had more experience, something! makes her not qualified.
I don't think Bernie meant that, but... it was a mind-numbingly way to state it given historical context.
ugaboga232
Member
That's a pretty low bar and the apology was mostly just talking about the people who did fight AIDS which is cool but it was more informative than an apology but yea the unqualified comment is dumb, probably not from a sexist motivation, but could easily be taken that way with little fault.
User 463088
Banned
Considering he doubled down on it again this evening when Charlie Rose interviewed him...but, again, Bernie never apologizes for anything. It's one of the great benefits of never being wrong on anything in the history of the world.
Maybe Bernie's campaign should have a "How to talk about women" conference to go along with the one they had about "How to talk to black women"?
I mean it was literally an apology. I don't know how you could get more apology y.
Anecdotally, this "unqualified" flap seems to have hit a nerve among many of the women on my Twitter feed who are normally very politically quiet. One remarked that it gave her flashbacks to instances over the years where, despite being as qualified or more qualified than men seeking position, they or their female coworkers were passed-over for consideration on promotions/jobs/etc. They were qualified, but still deemed not good enough.
As a guy, I will never be able to fully relate to this experience. But when multiple people are echoing this sentiment, it catches my attention, and I have to try to understand.
In a way, it kinda reminds me of my comments in the thread last year theorizing that things would be said by Hillary opponents that would "activate" female voters to her benefit. I'd be very interested in seeing if polling bears this out.
As a guy, I will never be able to fully relate to this experience. But when multiple people are echoing this sentiment, it catches my attention, and I have to try to understand.
In a way, it kinda reminds me of my comments in the thread last year theorizing that things would be said by Hillary opponents that would "activate" female voters to her benefit. I'd be very interested in seeing if polling bears this out.
User 463088
Banned
It is not a low bar. Her apology was incredibly well done. She didn't hem or haw. She admitted she fucked up.
And_Gignac
Member
You mean Future Android 18, right?
He needs to start the debate with an apology. No excuses.
It wasnt. She didnt criticize Reagan or Nancy´s role. I understand why tho, it would had been in bad taste considering the situation of Nancy´s passing.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
You know, because of Hillary Clinton, we started a conversation about emails.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Bernie used the "unqualified" line because he mistakenly believed Clinton had said something to the effect of him being unqualified, and he turned it back on her. This is a pretty classic rhetorical parry, albeit misapplied in this case. It was also a statement founded on specific criticisms of judgments Clinton has made in the past, not just some vague sense that she "needs to be more qualified" in any actual experiential sense. Failing to make this distinction and decrying Bernie's attack as sexist because it involved a word that has the potential to be used in sexist contexts, when it is unmistakably clear that Bernie did not remotely use it in such a way, is "Gotcha!" bullshit of the highest order.
What about a PM? I sent you one but never got a response.
I think you would have to be looking to find anything sexist in Bernie's words, and judging by this thread, Bernie is evil and there is something sidious about all he does, so the reaching makes sense.
There are valid critisisms of Bernie, this isn't one of them. Seems almost like Bernie's smaller flaws are blown out of proportion to match with Hillary's.
There are valid critisisms of Bernie, this isn't one of them. Seems almost like Bernie's smaller flaws are blown out of proportion to match with Hillary's.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I thanked you in the threadWhat about a PM? I sent you one but never got a response.
I don't think Bernie meant it in a sexist way. I think, unfortunately for Bernie, besides being wrong, he used a pretty loaded phrase for women in the workplace.
ugaboga232
Member
The low bar was referring to sanders comment, sorry if that wasn't clear. TBH that apology really doesn't do it for me but I will fully accept that its probably my bias. It wasn't something inaccurate, it was pretty much the complete opposite. I would have been happier with taking a bit more responsibility but i was more trying to make a joke on bernie's doubling down (even though i am supposedly a bernie supporter at heart, now I just don't really really like anyone).
That's complete bullshit and you know it.
Bernie has baggage that would make him get absolutely slaughtered in the GOP.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It's a good thing not many of us are saying he meant it that way.
Most of us are even peppering our posts with "Doubt he meant it that way" "Didn't mean it as a sexist jab".
But... emotional responses are rarely rational. And just because most of us don't see it that way, doesn't mean others won't.
This is part of the reason I don't think Sanders is fit for "primetime".
Guy makes unbelievably amateurish political mistakes weekly.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
He makes less mistakes than his amateurish campaign staff, lol.
Macho Madness
Member
actually you're the shits
ugaboga232
Member
Its the start of her aggressive anti ted cruz campaign.
I'm absolutely sure he didn't mean it in a sexist way. But that doesn't change the fact that many women, upon hearing the direct quote, hear sexist conotations. The problem isn't that we think Bernie is sexist. The problem is that it's an example of how he isn't very careful with how he speaks. That's what a lot of people like about him, but that also leads to scenarios like this. And on the GE stage, that would get him destroyed, even if he had moderate views
It seems you are conflating the criticism of how his comments are perceived, especially for women who hear "not qualified" as a chorus of how society looks down on them, as us calling Bernie sexist or implying he meant to use the term in a sexist way. I don't think he did. But that doesn't change the fact that the phrase "not qualified" referencing a woman are loaded words with decades of baggage attached to them. Do I think Bernie meant it in a sexist way? No. Do I think he should be doubling down on a loaded phrase such as that? No. But then again I'm just looking for the evil in the man.
Link?
Thunder Monkey
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Joe Shlabotnik
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User 463088
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I don't think he meant it in a sexist way, in the same way I don't think Biden calling Obama "articulate" was overtly racist.
However, when Bernie's campaign has beaten the "shouting" drum on Hillary when talking about guns, and, literally, the night before accused her of allowing her ambition to keep her in the race....then you add the "unqualified" thing and it is a problem.
My mom is an intelligent woman. Went to college in her 40s just to prove a point. Worked hard every day of her life. When Bernie said we shouldn't shout about guns, it put up a red flag. When Bernie's people started on the ambition thing, it put up a red flag. When Bernie did the "unqualified" thing, it put up a big ol' red flag. These are things she's heard all of her life.
The unqualified thing is a disaster because it's so wrong on so many levels. Bernie is not sexist. He didn't mean it in a sexist way. It was still stupid as hell, but I don't think it's wholly shocking that, to some women, it might sound a bit sexist.
We need to primary Obama in 2016.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Saying Clinton is not qualified on the basis of specific votes that she has made or positions she has held that Sanders thinks were wrong votes or positions is, ultimately, subjective, not "wrong". Ultimately, he probably should not have used the word if, descriptively, it has such an effect, but at the same time, in a more general sense, it is incumbent on percipients to take phrases in the context they are actually used in by the utterer and/or writer, and I'm free to say that I think such intense and hair-trigger language policing, without regard for context, is one of the aspects of contemporary liberalism I find most distasteful and regressive.
Oh captain my captain.
ugaboga232
Member
To be fair to bernie (obama raises a good point) a lot of his policies have majority support (from what I remember, bern me if wrong) when presented separate from the stigma. Perhaps the half loaves are really quarter loaves.
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