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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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So, a few things now that I am at a keyboard.

1) The whole banking industry is not complex-instrument-making villains. In fact, most of the institutions and people making those instruments THOUGHT THEY WERE GOOD! Hence so many of the banks being in deep trouble because they themselves invested in those instruments. There certainly were some people who figured it out and still pushed these instruments, but the majority of the banks were also victims of the bubble's collapse. Generalizing the industry to all bad-actors is simplistic stuff that makes a good stump speech but makes lousy policy. You know what else the financial industry does? Takes care of your retirement funds. Lends money to businesses to create jobs. If you really want to make bank reforms that help people (beyond what's been done in Dodd-Frank), then pass laws to limit credit card rates that used to be illegal, and put a reasonable cap on ATM fees and overdraft fees. And have the government take over the ratings agencies (and fund them).

2) HFT is not some boogeyman. There's good and bad in it, and the bad is front-running and algorithmic risk-- but mainly, HFT is taking tiny fractions of trades in exchange for market making and liquidity, which are good things. Most HFT people are the equivalent of people who collect deposit bottles that other people threw away. I worked in HFT for a long time and it's mainly a tech arms race with some potential risk, than some fraudulent behavior.

3) Banks didn't go from one to another. Banks are vast and full of different businesses and areas of focus. Banks engaged in bond funds, CDOs, and HFT and a lot more and will continue to do so. The only thing that's changed is people's perceptions, and HFT being a hot item to scrutinize because it's boomed. It actually fell off a ton for a while after the collapse, because it requires market volume, and trading slowed to a crawl in 2009. Bad times for HFT.

I think you might mis-characterize my opinion. I don't think the majority of ANY industry is corrupt. I think there are major actors that let slide immoral and unethical activity with the express purpose of keeping internal information private, often for their own gain. Most people that work at any given company are often unaware.

While I generally agree with a lot of these points, many are completely irrelevant. How would you respond to Michael Lewis' "Flash Boys," and the wide swathes of deeply shady activity and anti-consumer/investor practices? Or perhaps "Liar's Poker," and its pages replete with immoral and unethical behavior? Or perhaps is he just a no-nothing journalist. It's possible, I've been duped before.
 

Bowdz

Member
Context is important. If he said "I really want to sit down with you guys, but I'm very busy, and we'll do our best to organize something" it's very different than "I don't know if we'll be able to have a sit down, I'm very busy." Not defending his remarks, he has a propensity for coming off very gruff.

Absolutely, and I think I should have qualified in my post that the goddamn wasn't directed towards Bernie, but rather at the reaction of the family members. I don't think Bernie was at any point trying to be dismissive of them, but their reaction really does highlight how certain statements, gestures, or behaviors can be interpreted in completely different ways then the speaker's original intent.
 
If Bernie does somehow win this primary it won't be with the help of his staff:



Because when you're going to meet with the Sandy Hook victims and you're already late HEH HEH

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-mass-shooting-victims-221752#ixzz45IuDmTgM

“It is so shameful that you ignored my call for an apology and when pushed by a reporter, instead of responding to me, you attacked Hillary Clinton," Smegielski said.

I like that she's not letting this part go. I saw Bernie's "but Hillary" comment and kept thinking, who the hell was even talking about Hillary Clinton?
 
I like that she's not letting this part go. I saw Bernie's "but Hillary" comment and kept thinking, who the hell was even talking about Hillary Clinton?

i was thinking that and "when the hell did Hillary bring you up except to attack your shameful-ass vote to codify special treatment for gun manufacturers that basically no other sector, except for vaccine production, gets?"
 

Zona

Member
I used to like Sanders. Now I don't dislike him because I don't fundamentally agree with him, I dislike him because I think he's a terrible advocate for my beliefs.
 
I used to like Sanders. Now I don't dislike him because I don't fundamentally agree with him, I dislike him because I think he's a terrible advocate for my beliefs.

Bernie is like disco. Making a revival, sounds good in bursts, is huge among the young, then you look deeper and

latest


Yeah, no.
 
So, it's probably already been noted but the funny thing about the PLCAA...

It's exactly the type of legislation "money in politics grrrr number one issue facing the world" people should abhor.

It's basically a bill that came about at the behest of special interests/lobbying/Big X in order to shield large corporations from litigation.

But instead it seems to get a full-throated defence from said people.
 
I've been a Bernie fan for a long time.

He's exactly the wrong person to be out there trying to change the public stance on Democratic Socialism. Because of his personal belief baggage.

The man has said some truly crazy shit, and that's aside from the politically toxic raising taxes stuff.

I'll always love the man for fighting a fight I'd never put myself out there to do. But he's really just a slightly crazy old man, with college kid assisted delusions of grandeur.
Twice in one sentence you've used words to describe an older gentleman that suggest senility.

I hear shit like that a lot from Hillary folk who accuse me of refusing to vote for her because I'm a sexist.
 

hawk2025

Member
So, it's probably already been noted but the funny thing about the PLCAA...

It's exactly the type of legislation "money in politics grrrr number one issue facing the world" people should abhor.

It's basically a bill that came about at the behest of special interests/lobbying/Big X in order to shield large corporations from litigation.

But instead it seems to get a full-throated defence from said people.


I've said this until I was blue in the face. All I got back was, well, more defense. I think we discussed this earlier today here a few pages back.
 
Twice in one sentence you've used words to describe an older gentleman that suggest senility.

I hear shit like that a lot from Hillary folk who accuse me of refusing to vote for her because I'm a sexist.
Hey!

I think Bill is suffering from age related reduced mental faculties as well!

Bernies holding together a hell of a lot better than him and Trump. But... fair enough.
 
I used to like Sanders. Now I don't dislike him because I don't fundamentally agree with him, I dislike him because I think he's a terrible advocate for my beliefs.

A less extreme version is close to my beliefs as well, though still slightly on the 'positive' side. The trend is a bit troubling over the past couple of weeks.
 
Hey!

I think Bill is suffering from age related reduced mental faculties as well!

Bernies holding together a hell of a lot better than him and Trump. But... fair enough.
Bill looks wan and frail, but he's vegan and that's not uncommon.

I think he's still sharp as a tack, he's just in a bubble and doesn't realize that good politics in the 90s doesn't translate to 2016.
 
I think he's still sharp as a tack, he's just in a bubble and doesn't realize that good politics in the 90s doesn't translate to 2016.
I definitely disagree.

It's like watching a slightly more coherent version of a friend of mines father. Slowly losing that little spark that made them great.

It's very sad to see, but aging does that. Given my family history, if I'm still posting here in fifteen years I may be a shell of my current self.
 
I mean, it could totally be me projecting my fears onto what's caused by a rapid change in diet, but I'm looking at Alzheimer's, Vascular Dementia, or Psychosis...

So... yay aging!
 
I definitely disagree.

It's like watching a slightly more coherent version of a friend of mines father. Slowly losing that little spark that made them great.

It's very sad to see, but aging does that. Given my family history, if I'm still posting here in fifteen years I may be a shell of my current self.

I don't think you can discount the weight of the presidency either. It ages people quickly. Bill Clinton was president when the corrosive nature of the job was picking up in a big way, too. That's like mainlining cortisol for eight years.

Also, I just looked it up and apparently he sometimes falls off the vegan wagon. He's got such a serious cardiac history that it's gotta be a balancing act. The big thing is that without enough healthy fats, health can drop off badly, and not everyone takes to vegetarianism or veganism easily. I was a vegetarian from ages 19-24 and even being as careful as I could, I presented with signs of malnutrition.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Also Bernie's trip to the Vatican is probably shit, will do him no good, has nothing to do with the pope, and is a time waster the weekend before the New York primary: https://storify.com/Cajsa/sanders-and-the-vatican-story
But on Facebook someone told me he will be discussing INEQUALITY with THE POPE while hillary has a 2700 a plate fundraiser. Maybe if the plates were 27 dollars each she would be trending!

I guess someone thought the trip would go viral, and it has, great success. But Bernie doesn't have a going viral problem, he has delegate math problem.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Honestly what's the point of running a doomed presidential campaign if you can't leverage it to meet famous people and see neat stuff? Sanders has a long way to go to catch up to Newt, who made sure to visit a zoo in every state he campaigned in.
 

Clefargle

Member
I tend to go on what is right vs wrong, and obviously the Rove of the world, and the GOP, are wrong in their policies.

If yall want to demean Sanders, have at it, not like it is going to change the outcome in the primaries. Its just a little disconcerting that y'all would go at it like this, especially when you expect his followers to support Hillary this fall.

But as I've always said, once the GE starts and Obama starts doing rallies for her, everyone will get into gear and go for the right person. A trump or a Cruz in the whitehouse is too much for me to handle.

It isn't demeaning to predict how the GOP will blast his words back in his face if he was the nominee.
 
It isn't demeaning to predict how the GOP will blast his words back in his face if he was the nominee.

There is alot less that they can attack Bernie with than Clinton. Not that its remotely relevant because they will just lie anyways, the conservative voters will know that they're lying but they wont care because they were never going to vote democrat in the first place regardless of who the candidates are.

The only scenario where Bernie losses in the general is if the Clinton supporters dont show up to vote.
 
His GE viability, or lack thereof, isn't premised on primary voters that went for Clinton not voting for Sanders.

It's premised on the general electorate being comprised of 40%+ people who self-identify as moderate, that whoever the Democratic or Republican nominee is has to win over.
 

Clefargle

Member
There is alot less that they can attack Bernie with than Clinton. Not that its remotely relevant because they will just lie anyways, the conservative voters will know that they're lying but they wont care because they were never going to vote democrat in the first place regardless of who the candidates are.

The only scenario where Bernie losses in the general is if the Clinton supporters dont show up to vote.

I don't disagree with you here. That is true either way. If either of the loser candidates supporters stay home the winner could lose. I was saying that simply saying Bernie will get hit by the S card scare tactics isn't demeaning him. It's recognizing the GOP tactics for what they are and knowing that 65% of Americans have negative views of the word socialist. I'm not a Clinton supporter because I think Bernie would lose the election, I'm a Clinton supporter because her plan to implement change is better. Supporting downticket dems is something she has put her effort and fundraising behind (>30m) while Bernie has done none of that.
 

Diablos

Member
Love the Today interview. "And on her worst day she will be--she would be an infinitely better President...."
😂

Bernie knows. Lol
 

noshten

Member
I don't disagree with you here. That is true either way. If either of the loser candidates supporters stay home the winner could lose. I was saying that simply saying Bernie will get hit by the S card scare tactics isn't demeaning him. It's recognizing the GOP tactics for what they are and knowing that 65% of Americans have negative views of the word socialist. I'm not a Clinton supporter because I think Bernie would lose the election, I'm a Clinton supporter because her plan to implement change is better. Supporting downticket dems is something she has put her effort and fundraising behind (>30m) while Bernie has done none of that.

I don't think that downticket fundraising is a particularly strong issue Clinton can attack Sanders on if he continues to out-raise her. This was a campaign that 8 months ago could have never expected to be doing so well in terms of fundraising.
A lot depends on how long Bernie remains viable even a small victory in NY could really shift the tides and the fund raising juggernaut might outdo itself in April. Raising $50 million in a month could really start turning the heads of certain delegates.
I definitely think you are right in terms of raising money and supporting downticket dems but considering how Dems completely disregarded Sanders campaign for a long time it's no surprise that the issue wasn't seriously considered until recently. A lot of people underestimated the campaign - they didn't reach out - they pledged their support to his opponent. I'm pretty sure Jane was authentic when she said they hadn't considered the long term implications of their volunteer/fundraising network.
Right now I'm thinking that as the Dems see what a small donor network is able to do, they might reconsider where they get their money from in the future. DNC in the meantime is going into the opposite direction is a turnoff to people donating to Sanders.
The current models simply ensure Dems will always be out-raised by Republicans on a micro-level simply because rich people prefer to funnel their money into candidates who've pledged to never raise their taxes, who might even want to lower them. It's all about keeping this fundraising/volunteer network viable beyond this election cycle. So in order to do that Bernie need to continue winning.

You are absolutely correct short term Clinton is the best option for downticket dems, and it has a lot to do with the agreements she made with local DNCs back in August 2015. At that time no one could have expected for her to be out-raised by anyone in terms of individual contributions.
 

Maledict

Member
Bernie hasn't contributed a single cent to helping any democrat get elected. His fundraising is one of the reasons they *don't* want him - because he's made it perfectly clear every other democrat can go and get fucked. There's no point having a mammoth fundraising operation and then only using it to help yourself and not the down ticket races.
 

royalan

Member
I wish the Democratic convention would happen in Pittsburgh this year. It was a contender

I work about two blocks from where all this is going to go down. Yeah, I wish this was happening in Pittsburgh too, lol.

Then again, this will be my opportunity to get me a politician bae, since my current plan to "accidentally" run into Brian Sims has not panned out. :(
 
I work about two blocks from where all this is going to go down. Yeah, I wish this was happening in Pittsburgh too, lol.

Then again, this will be my opportunity to get me a politician bae, since my current plan to "accidentally" run into Brian Sims has not panned out. :(

That man gives me the vapors. Seriously.
 
Bernie hasn't contributed a single cent to helping any democrat get elected. .

I disagree with your basic premise that this strategy is good for the Democrats.

The democrats are voluntarily accepting their role in a game that is rigged against them the start. They accept money from the same people who fund the republicans, the only difference is that those people give alot more money to the republicans than they do the democrats.

They are corrupting themselves for leftovers.
 
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