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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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Democrats are already getting demolished in most elections. The republicans control congress and the senate, the democrats strategy of corrupting themselves and taking leftover crumbs from Conservative donors is not working.

If you arent a big fan of Bernie Sanders thats fine, but the democrats current strategy for raising money is a failure.

Our problem is not one of fund raising. Not even close.

Our problem is decreased interest in mid term elections coupled with gerrymandered districts.
Actually, the problem is money. And Democrats don't have nearly enough. Every two years the DNC digs itself into a fiduciary hole and scrambles to make up the change.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-democrats-have-a-spending-problem/

The fact is, they need the donor cash because it costs money to run a campaign. There was a congressman who said that on average, he spends about 2/3 of his time fundraising.

Remember when Obama banned lobbyists from donating to the DNC in 2008? Remember when Debbie lifted the ban in the middle of last year? That's because the DNC is broke, and is running against a billionaire. Think about that for a second.
 
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"Creating a liberal utopia really is that easy, and the only reason that it hasn't happened yet is because people on both sides are shamelessly corrupt, beholden to corporate interests, and don't actually want it to happen.

But where is the lie? He should continue this line by telling everyone that they are complicit in this by being apathetic when it comes to getting their voices heard.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't understand how you guys have lobbying as a legal thing. Blows my mind

Lobbying is an important part of the democratic process. If you think we're the only ones that have it you're crazy.

This isn't to say that it shouldn't be highly regulated.
 

Hindl

Member
I don't understand how you guys have lobbying as a legal thing. Blows my mind

The same lobbying that allows corporations to get what they want is what allows LGBT and minority rights groups to get what they want. There's room for reform but it's an important part of democracy
 

Armaros

Member
I don't understand how you guys have lobbying as a legal thing. Blows my mind

So you are against minorities lobbying directly to Congress about their issues.

LGBT lobbying for LGBT rights, they are doing it even now for more protections besides just Marriage.

Climate Change?

Its easy to call out buzzwords of ideas you think are evil and ignore sitting down and looking at what it means overall.
 

Boney

Banned
Do those minority groups have as much influence as corporations though? Shouldn't public opinion be a better way to implement new laws? I guess the USA being so huge and so divided means that organized groups to push stuff to the senate is the only way.

But yes I want all LGBT rights taken away smh...

I actually didn't know that lobbying was also used minorities or other interest groups because you only hear about big money corporations and as a job. You don't have to be so condescending to explain things.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Do those minority groups have as much influence as corporations though? Shouldn't public opinion be a better way to implement new laws? I guess the USA being so huge and so divided means that organized groups to push stuff to the senate is the only way.

But yes I want all LGBT rights taken away smh...

Every country has lobbying, don't talk like we're unique in that. Whatever country you live in has it too.

Public opinion is shit and can often be wrong, it only turned around on interracial marriage in the late 80's or so as an example.

Lobbying can help to bring important issues to the forefront of discussions, it has it's uses. It's not some evil thing.
 

Boney

Banned
Every country has lobbying, don't talk like we're unique in that. Public opinion is shit and can often be wrong, it only turned around on interracial marriage in the late 80's or so as an example.
I don't think it exists in Chile. Hence my confusion

Edit apparently Chile passed a law for lobbying at the end of 2014 and it's the first Latin American country to do so.
 
Do those minority groups have as much influence as corporations though?

Yes they do. For a sociology student you should know better.

Shouldn't public opinion be a better way to implement new laws?

Public opinion changes with time and therefore is not a reliable factor for implementing new laws. Examples being Gay marriage and interracial relationships.

Again, as a sociology student you should know better.

I don't think it exists in Chile. Hence my confusion

Lobbying exists in every form of government. Just because a law was passed 2 years ago doesn't mean it's not a problem.
 
A lot of time, legislation comes before public opinion. People have to witness how the process works before they fully understand it or appreciate it.

Now there are other places where legislation should follow public opinion. See: most of Bernie's economic policy, especially minimum wage
 

Boney

Banned
Yes they do. For a sociology student you should know better.

Public opinion changes with time and therefore is not a reliable factor for implementing new laws. Examples being Gay marriage and interracial relationships.

Again, as a sociology student you should know better.

Lobbying exists in every form of government. Just because a law was passed 2 years ago doesn't mean it's not a problem.
I mean I understand that powerful institutions have influence in the senate but it was never disclosed here. So it was technically illegal I think. While I am embarrassed, I've stayed as far away as I can when it comes to politics academically.

A lot of time, legislation comes before public opinion. People have to witness how the process works before they fully understand it or appreciate it.

Now there are other places where legislation should follow public opinion. See: most of Bernie's economic policy, especially minimum wage
Just to be clear public opinion doesn't mean the majority of people, but rather a insurgence of social norms that get normalized as well a as with activism involved. Public opinions and laws are both simbiotic and while it's true that when something is legalized the positive opinion rapidly spikes most of the time, public opinion pressured for the law to pass.

Either way, I guess I was way off base thanks for the lesson
 
Yet they let Harper start to at least Reaganize Canada.

You can thank Paul Martin for that. Then you had the left devouring themselves as well when the NDP teamed up with the PCs for the power grab. It backfired of course.

As for the BQ... I don't want to get banned.
 
Do those minority groups have as much influence as corporations though? Shouldn't public opinion be a better way to implement new laws? I guess the USA being so huge and so divided means that organized groups to push stuff to the senate is the only way.

But yes I want all LGBT rights taken away smh...

I actually didn't know that lobbying was also used minorities or other interest groups because you only hear about big money corporations and as a job. You don't have to be so condescending to explain things.

If public opinion was the only guiding force to push new laws, interracial marriage would've only been legalized in the 1990s.
 
If public opinion was the only guiding force to push new laws, interracial marriage would've only been legalized in the 1990s.
That to me was the biggest strike against people who were saying like in 09 that "we should wait until a majority of the country supports it!" 4% of Americans supported interracial marriage when it was legalized, at least by the late 2000s it was pretty 50-50.

And now of course there's "concern" that there's not a broad consensus on gay marriage. Man like fucking 60% of the country supports it now, how many issues can you say that about?

Fucking John Roberts don't think you're off the hook just because of Obamacare.
 

studyguy

Member
Heard a pretty crazy NPR story about the ongoing harassment of superdelegates from the Bernie campaign. Apparently the Hillary supporters are just as active un engaging them but there are some truly odd things going on in the Bernie campaign.

Personal cell numbers being lifted, harassment on twitter from non-constituents or even non-US citizens, take out notes wtf?
 
Yet they let Harper start to at least Reaganize Canada.

Not an expert on Canadian affairs, but wasn't the reason Harper was elected so many times was because of the fact that Canada has two leftest parties, and that essentially split the vote? Or four really, if you count the Green and the Bloc Quebecois parties.
 

ampere

Member
My problem with Bernie Sanders' money isn't that he isn't sharing it with Democrats who sorely need it, although that's part of it. My problem is with how he's generating it.

On one hand, it's amazing that Bernie Sanders has been able to raise as much money as he has. Dems definitely need to look into his model going forward.

However, I don't think it can be discounted that he's raising a lot of that money by running a campaign that is dishonest about the realities of governing, and playing to a base of voters who are either young and new to the process, or may not realize that the reality of passing progressive legislation in this country is a little more complicated than zippy one-liners and "corporate involvement = bad". I know people don't want to use the word "liar" here, but as this primary trudges forward, and the Sanders campaign grows more desperate, they're getting pretty damn close to that being a fitting descriptor. The message Bernie is pushing at this point seems to be, "Creating a liberal utopia really is that easy, and the only reason that it hasn't happened yet is because people on both sides are shamelessly corrupt, beholden to corporate interests, and don't actually want it to happen. So give me money because I, and only I, can change this." It's just a lot more complicated than that, and saying that a lot of Bernie's policy proposals that are generating this money are poorly thought-out and DOA is not being defeatist, it's being real.

So while I think it's great that Bernie's raising this kind of money, I have to wonder how possible it would be for someone running a more pragmatic, honest, issue-based campaign to generate this kind of interest (and thus, funds), and if it would be worth it to follow Bernie's lead. Appealing to emotion/passion at the expense of reality and feasibility...

He's not really sticking to his core message, which is a problem. He's said the revolution can't be done by one person, so voters need to elect democrats down the ticket, and that's very true. But then he strays far from that in his actions and speeches, like you said he's not fundraising for these other candidates, and he's not really making that the focal point of his campaign anymore. He's mostly attacking Hillary, banks and the "establishment" for being corrupt, when he should be focusing on the message of getting people to vote. Increasing voter turnout, emphasizing the importance of midterms and local elections, those are the things that should be core to his message. That would also be more consistent with his "it's about getting a democrat in the White House" claim.

I think he's more concerned with being president than actually accomplishing his "revolution". He wants to be a hero or something.
 
Heard a pretty crazy NPR story about the ongoing harassment of superdelegates from the Bernie campaign. Apparently the Hillary supporters are just as active un engaging them but there are some truly odd things going on in the Bernie campaign.

Personal cell numbers being lifted, harassment on twitter from non-constituents or even non-US citizens, take out notes wtf?
Most superdelegates are now just saying "I support whoever is the pledged delegate leader at the convention"

Which Ta-da is the smart thing to do. How can anyone get pissed off at that?
 
He's not really sticking to his core message, which is a problem. He's said the revolution can't be done by one person, so voters need to elect democrats down the ticket, and that's very true. But then he strays far from that in his actions and speeches, like you said he's not fundraising for these other candidates, and he's not really making that the focal point of his campaign anymore. He's mostly attacking Hillary, banks and the "establishment" for being corrupt, when he should be focusing on the message of getting people to vote. Increasing voter turnout, emphasizing the importance of midterms and local elections, those are the things that should be core to his message. That would also be more consistent with his "it's about getting a democrat in the White House" claim.

I think he's more concerned with being president than actually accomplishing his "revolution". He wants to be a hero or something.

You know the oldest lie in America, senator? It's that power can be innocent.
 
Heard a pretty crazy NPR story about the ongoing harassment of superdelegates from the Bernie campaign. Apparently the Hillary supporters are just as active un engaging them but there are some truly odd things going on in the Bernie campaign.

Personal cell numbers being lifted, harassment on twitter from non-constituents or even non-US citizens, take out notes wtf?

I love that the article is acting like this is a cool story and not creepy/harassment from a food establishment
 

studyguy

Member
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/09/47339...erdelegate-hit-list-superdelegates-not-amused

Getting put on a hitlist sounds awful

Also the tweet... jeez
So who wants to help start of a new website aimed at harassing Democratic Superdelegates? PM me. #FeelTheBern

— SPENCER THAYER (@spencerthayer) April 4, 2016

Ensley said she's been called names, and there have been expletives.

"They said, you know, you should go to hell," said Ensley, describing another message. "How dare you vote against your own interests as an African-American woman. I expected you would be smarter than that."

The hitlist creator sounds like a fucking douche at the end.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Is Bernie meeting the Pope or not? He said he was on the View....

But other people are saying that he can't be because the Pope's supposedly in Greece?

This whole thing is crazy.
 
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/09/47339...erdelegate-hit-list-superdelegates-not-amused

Getting put on a hitlist sounds awful

Also the tweet... jeez




The hitlist creator sounds like a fucking douche at the end.


When Thayer, the creator of the superdelegate list, was told people were feeling harassed and unpersuaded, here's what he said:

"It's likely that most callers are actually polite. If a few people contacting superdelegates are being obscene they'll of course drown out reasonable voices and harden opinions. However, it's useful to look at what's causing some of the anger and outrage we're seeing.
"Voters know they are being disenfranchised by superdelegate influence and these privileged voters are a reasonable target for frustration. And, let's be honest, if superdelegates aren't prepared to deal with the public, they shouldn't be party officials."

This sounds like the exact same rationale used by a certain double letter harassment campaign about video games.

What an asshole.
 
Is Bernie meeting the Pope or not? He said he was on the View....

But other people are saying that he can't be because the Pope's supposedly in Greece?

This whole thing is crazy.

What it reminds me of is in 2008 when McCain suspended his campaign to return to Washington to solve the financial crisis.
 

Farmboy

Member
Any Trump strategy was always going to involve getting 1.237 on the first ballot. His team will probably focus on wrangling unbound delegates right at the convention. I still think this is quite doable, even likely (depending on how close he gets in terms of bound delegates).

If he fails to get the magic number on ballot #1, the nom will probably go to Cruz and Trump and his supporters will go ballistic. There could be riots.
 

Armaros

Member
Is Bernie meeting the Pope or not? He said he was on the View....

But other people are saying that he can't be because the Pope's supposedly in Greece?

This whole thing is crazy.

He was invited to a mid-tier academic seminar and the whole thing was spun as a direct invitation by the Vatican to meet the Pope. People at both ends are going to lose their jobs.

If he goes, he will not meet the Pope and its not a invitation from the Vatican itself.
 

Effect

Member
He was invited to a mid-tier academic seminar and the whole thing was spun as a direct invitation by the Vatican to meet the Pope. People at both ends are going to lose their jobs.

If he goes, he will not meet the Pope and its not a invitation from the Vatican itself.

As a result he's not going to get any media attention either. He can spin it but he's not going to be seen on TV with the Pope, nor is the media going to report that he did. There will be no photo op either for him to push. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up not going.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
He was invited to a mid-tier academic seminar and the whole thing was spun as a direct invitation by the Vatican to meet the Pope. People at both ends are going to lose their jobs.

If he goes, he will not meet the Pope and its not a invitation from the Vatican itself.

It actually sounds like Bernie thought he was meeting the Pope though.
 
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