eBay Huckster
Member
I could try to crosspost more of my awesomely dark analogies from the primary threads
Actually, it's about ethics in voting
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
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I could try to crosspost more of my awesomely dark analogies from the primary threads
Actually, it's about ethics in voting
Yep, made a thread on this a few weeks ago. Thread was locked by page 5. Has only gotten worse since then.
Thequietone
Member
So is Hillary going to have to rely on Super delegates to clinch the nomination or will she get enough pledged delegates by the convention? Cause I'd rather not hear Bernie supporters claim she stole the nomination for the rest of the year and beyond.
Edit: Who am I kidding? I'll probably hear it even if she does get enough pledged delegates.
Edit: Who am I kidding? I'll probably hear it even if she does get enough pledged delegates.
Prax
Member
Yes. We tend to get left splits due to our consolidated conservative party.
Also the oil economy was doing well at that time and I think Canadians were "punishing" the Liberals for their scandals at first and then failing to get good leadership for subsequent election campaigns led to more Harper Conservative wins.
Left-leaning people tend to be merciless on their own when it comes to purity, it seems. >_> Compared to conservatives who tend to just galvanize and support the message regardless of scandal on their end.
Anyway, I'm a Canadian and I think Hilary is the better candidate for the US (but I'm also a pragmatist at heart with socially progressive leanings). Bernie, I think.. would not do well in Canada either. He'd fizzle out fast as it's kind of clear he has big dreams but little details in his plans (as if some Canadians forget how bottom-of-totem the NDP itself usually is due to having the more socialist/unrealistic goals). Trudeau is also an idealist a bit like Bernie, but he has the fortune of being young and handsome and also surrounding himself with good people with established portfolios (from the establishment itself!). I cannot say I see the same for Bernie since he seems to outright reject making alliances with people who know how to work the system best.
That Bernie seems to get crazed fervent supporters mainly from the internet or something is another aspect that makes this uncomfortable in a hype-train false-prophet sense (sorry internet citizens!).
I think a few Canadians and other non-US citizens have made some really.. unfortunate and uninformed judgments about how US politics does/should work and it makes me cringe in embarrassment every time.
eBay Huckster
Member
she'll have a clear majority of pledged delegates but almost certainly won't have 2382
So Shaun King (journalist linked to BLM and Bernie supporter) posted what he thought was a clever line on Facebook
Which then devolves into page upon page of arguments and links about whether Bernie was or wasn't actually invited to the Vatican.
https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/posts/1029612450411006
Which then devolves into page upon page of arguments and links about whether Bernie was or wasn't actually invited to the Vatican.
https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/posts/1029612450411006
Avon Barksdale
Member
The only Shaun King I acknowledge is the former Buccaneers quarterback.
teruterubozu
Member
Well to be fair the Vatican would probably rather talk with a Jewish socialist than American Protestants.
And_Gignac
Member
I think the anger against superdelegates is justified. I mean, they are for Clinton in suspicious and disgusting proportions that do not represent the 43% of the vote Sanders has got.
But at the same time, such scenario has helped him to further his outsider/ not bought / not corrupted propaganda so... .
But at the same time, such scenario has helped him to further his outsider/ not bought / not corrupted propaganda so... .
eBay Huckster
Member
it's justified until you remember they were put into place after ted kennedy tried to amend rule 11(h) of the DNC and get carter's actual, massive pledged-delegate majority to vote for him
think of them as bonus delegates on top of an overall win
think of them as bonus delegates on top of an overall win
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
What is the target for Sanders in Wyoming?
eBay Huckster
Member
It includes supers, yes.
2383 includes superdelegates
2026 does not include superdelegates
eBay Huckster
Member
yep. pledged majority is actually 2026, and clinton's definitely gonna get to that on june 7th
Wyoming has fourteen delegates total.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Super delis are needed for a party to retain control in some form.
I would rather not hand the party over to someone who is about to torpedo it in the general.
I mean could you imagine that happening, someone from the outside basically creating an insurgency of uninformed idiots and hijacking the party?
14 state level delegates.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
If the people cant be trusted why even hold an election?
Caucuses
Scare quotes around the word claim. lololol
eBay Huckster
Member
could be worse. we could have someone from the inside who lost 37 states and received 3 million less votes try to overturn the actual will of the majority, like what LITERALLY HAPPENED IN THE LAST ELECTION THAT DIDN'T FEATURE SUPERDELEGATES
You see what's going on with Trump? You want that?
Also, they force candidates to make relationships within the party so that when they, hopefully, take office they'll be able to get things done and the party will be unified.
EDIT: Also caucuses are even worse, so unless you're gonna complain about them too...
And_Gignac
Member
Because voters are uninformed idiots*, apparently.
*except Clinton voters, they are 100% constituted by academics and intellectuals.
A valid reason to get rid of the electoral college.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
To protect yourself from fringe situations where direct intervention is required.
I would rather have the "Oh Fuck" button than go "oh man we should have had the 'Oh Fuck' button installed"
although if you're at that point in your party, it's probably too late and something has gone horribly wrong
^^^
Oh, yeah. I realized that was probably the case right after posting.
so it looks like at the minimum looking at polling Hillary is going to have at least 2000 pledged+super delegates by the end of the month. May has a total of 251 delegates. She will probably split that with Bernie or slightly under perform getting maybe an average of 40-45% of that amount.
Macho Madness
Member
Bias
theprodigy
Member
superdelegates are a paper tiger, by the time you'd need to call on them to get rid of some crazy candidate the party is already fucked anyway
It's to protect against something as drastic as a Trump scenario or even worse. I already regret even bringing this up, but if Hillary gets indicted they will be Bernie's ticket to the nomination.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
FUCK
I think so too, after talking to some dude (a BernieBro posting on my friends page, I don't know him) who voted for Ron Paul in the past on Facebook that insisted that Bernie was a "libertarian socialist", whatever that means.
He also said he was planning on leaving the country soon, to avoid the civil war he sees coming during Clinton's second term...
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I hope he remembered to invest in gold and silver
Preach it mom
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Because the people voting in the primary aren't "the people". They're politically motivated people.
And_Gignac
Member
I don't think supers are essentially a bad thing. But they show a dissonance with the current state of the democratic voters (members) and the elites. Bernie and his support is not based in a personality cult, but in ideas that a big part of the base agrees.
You would presume such division would be present too with the elites.
You would presume such division would be present too with the elites.
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Democratic party members aren't keen to support guy who calls them all corrupt, not progressive and doesn't participate in down ticket fundraising to support the party. More at 11!
I didn't realize WY was closed until Nate Cohn mentioned it, figured it was an open caucus.
also voter fraud
RustyNails
Member
Not a complete disaster for Hillary it seems.
Super delegates just raise the bar a person or interest group has to meet in order to take over the party. You might argue about whether that's a good thing, I guess, but Madisonian democracy is literally designed around tempering the errors of the masses, so I think you can't really say it's unAmerican!
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