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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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C

CCS

Banned
East Lake said:
Israel is a client state. If for example there was political will in US tomorrow for a settlement they'd have to accept it and BDS would have virtually no hand in it other than providing general pressure. Worrying about anti-semites is sort of like worrying about communists taking over america.
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I don't think it's helpful to dismiss anti-semitism like that. For example, in the UK in 2014 anti-semitic attacks reached record levels, more than double where they were in 2013. However, Amnesty International rejected a motion to fight against anti-semitism in the UK, the only motion it rejected at the entire annual conference of the organisation. Also, as I mentioned, I have personally witnessed people using the BDS campaign to push blatant anti-semitism. I'm not inherently opposed to boycotts and sanctions, but there is far too little effort being put into ensuring that the BDS campaign does not become a vehicle for anti-semites.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
East Lake said:
Israel is a client state. If for example there was political will in US tomorrow for a settlement they'd have to accept it and BDS would have virtually no hand in it other than providing general pressure. Worrying about anti-semites is sort of like worrying about communists taking over america.
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Did you not see the Bernie question? Where the dude pivoted from Israel to Jews in the Fed?

I think it's a bit better to trust Jews to talk of their own fears of antisemtism. Like they've never had experiences. But something something we're financially well off (like were all bankers or lawyers).

I think the US needs to come down harder on the settlements and stop vetoing things in the UN but cutting military aide isn't going to decrease tensions lead to a peace deal but more people dead. BDS I think further delegitmtizes the idea of a Jewish nation state (which I know a lot of people want but which I support). There's a reason even people like Finkelstein and Chomsky have major issues with it (though they disagree a lot with me)
 
T

TyrantII

Member
euphemism said:
TYT is killing me this cycle, I barely watch them anymore because of how overtly they shill for Bernie. It's pretty gross when Jimmy D sits there and says things like "fuck you Hillary" or "she's a criminal" (not verbatim) . Then they put out debate recaps the day after complete with "best/worst line" and "who won?" I don't think they have ever had one where they announced Clinton as the debate winner the entire primary. Not once.
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Welcome to the new media, same as the old.

Clicks clicks clicks.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Maledict said:
Um, non-military interventions such as boycotts and sanctions also had a very positive outcome in South Africa.
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Very different situations. For starters, there wasn't a global Afrikaner community who faced persecution in large parts of the globe.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
GVS2015082701-map1_small.png


seem familiar?
 
E

East Lake

Member
Poodlestrike said:
Firstly, Israel is absolutely capable of running their economy and military on their own. They're not a client state in any sense that I'm aware of. The US keeps international pressure off them, but frankly, international pressure that doesn't involve force of arms doesn't really have the greatest track record of getting things done anyway. Iran is pretty much the only success case I can think of. When you look at Cuba, China, Vietnam, hell Russia, increased relations produce better results than decreased relations every time.
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You've basically agreed with me that they're a client state. If the US keeps international pressure off them, who has the leverage in that relationship?

Antisemitism is still very much a thing, and considering the historical impact Antisemitism has had on my people, I would kindly ask you to shut the fuck up.
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The question isn't whether anti-semitism is a thing, it's whether it exists in BDS, to what extent it exists in BDS, and if it does exist whether BDS would have any leverage in a settlement to enact anti-semitic policies.

So far all I've seen are examples like "I knew people who were anti-semitic at school", which I don't doubt is true but ultimately carries little weight in a possible international settlement with many powerful players not named BDS.

CCS said:
I don't think it's helpful to dismiss anti-semitism like that. For example, in the UK in 2014 anti-semitic attacks reached record levels, more than double where they were in 2013. However, Amnesty International rejected a motion to fight against anti-semitism in the UK, the only motion it rejected at the entire annual conference of the organisation. Also, as I mentioned, I have personally witnessed people using the BDS campaign to push blatant anti-semitism. I'm not inherently opposed to boycotts and sanctions, but there is far too little effort being put into ensuring that the BDS campaign does not become a vehicle for anti-semites.
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There's effort. We've threatened school budgets!

Second, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo has apparently reconsidered his original idea to cut $485 million from the CUNY budget— a budget that the Senate Republican majority passed in a surprise session March 14 as a way to “send a message” to CUNY to take a harder line regarding what it considers to be the university’s anti-Semitism problem.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/opinion/the-bds-movement-and-anti-semitism-on-campus.html?_r=0
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
adam387 said:
From PURELY selfish perspectives, I'm way, way more scared of Cruz than I am of Trump.
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Eh, I'm about as generic a hetero white dude as you will find, and I definitely find Cruz waaay scarier than Trump. I can't really think of any issues that Trump holds more extreme views on. Maybe immigration, but even that is pretty much a tossup between the two, and when it comes to Muslims specifically Cruz is almost certainly more radical just going by the views of the people he associates with.
 
C

CCS

Banned
East Lake said:
You've basically agreed with me that they're a client state. If the US keeps international pressure off them, who has the leverage in that relationship?

The question isn't whether anti-semitism is a thing, it's whether it exists in BDS, to what extent it exists in BDS, and if it does exist whether BDS would have any leverage in a settlement to enact anti-semitic policies.

So far all I've seen are examples like "I knew people who were anti-semitic at school", which I don't doubt is true but ultimately carries little weight in a possible international settlement with many powerful players not named BDS.

There's effort. We've threatened school budgets!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/opinion/the-bds-movement-and-anti-semitism-on-campus.html?_r=0
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These are UK cases, because those are the ones I'm most familiar with, which highlight the problem with rising anti-semitism on the left:

NUS President Election Candidate, Malia Bouattia, Responds To ‘Anti-Semitism’ Claims


Malia Bouattia, who currently serves as black students officer, is standing to become national president at the NUS annual conference next week.

Bouattia has faced mounting criticism over an article she co-authored five years ago in which she described the University of Birmingham as “something of a Zionist outpost”, and for alleged links with an organisation currently blacklisted by the NUS.

The letter goes on to allege that she held links with an organisation previously “no-platformed” by the NUS.

It highlighted her acknowledgment of an endorsement by a member of controversial group, Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK (MPACUK)

MPACUK was banned by the NUS from university campuses in 2004 for anti-Semitic propaganda.
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Labour Suspends Party Member Vicky Kirby AGAIN After MPs Urge Jeremy Corbyn To Take Action On Anti-Semitism


Vicky Kirby, who is vice-chair of the Woking Labour Party and a former Parliamentary candidate, faces possible expulsion after a fresh inquiry into her conduct.

It emerged this week that Ms Kirby previously been suspended for making remarks about Jews having “big noses” and Israel behaving like “Hitler”, but was allowed back into the party after quitting as a candidate.

At the weekly meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party on Monday night, MPs urged Jeremy Corbyn to act after it emerged Ms Kirby had recently been given her new post – and that the party had said new evidence was needed of further misconduct to expel her.
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CdgkohBXEAEPnBT.jpg


Oxford University's Labour Club Accused Of 'Having A Problem With Jews'


The Oxford University Labour Club (OULC) has been accused of "having a problem with Jews" by its former Jewish co-chair, who stood down from his role after the society voted to endorse Israel Apartheid Week.

Alex Chalmers announced his resignation in a Facebook post saying there was an anti-semitic problem within the club.

Chalmers cited concerns over members using the term ‘Zio’ – a word that Chalmers claims is “usually confined to the websites of neo-Nazis" - with "casual abandon". Chalmers expressed concern many members were declaring solidarity with Hamas, a group both the United States and European Union declare to be a terrorist organisation.

The Oxford student also said allegations of anti-semitism had been rubbished by members of the society, with one former co-chair reportedly describing the allegations as “just the Zionists crying wolf.”
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KCL's Student Israel society attacked by demonstrators


Police were called to one of the country's top universities on Tuesday night after a student Israel society was attacked by demonstrators.

Eyewitnesses describe a mob throwing chairs and smashing windows, while pictures show officers standing guard outside the building at Kings College London.
The incident comes amid growing concerns over the rise of intimidation and the suppression of free speech on British university campuses.
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All of these are just from this year.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I'm in Chicago again today, but it's just so the Clinton campaign can fly me back to NY for an event since I won Illinois on the 15th when I was here.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Are people being intentionally stupid when it comes to this minimum wage shit? How hard is this to understand?

12 federal, states in high cost of living areas, should raise it to 15 or more. Like, how are people not getting this?
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
Are people being intentionally stupid when it comes to this minimum wage shit? How hard is this to understand?

12 federal, states in high cost of living areas, should raise it to 15 or more. Like, how are people not getting this?
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Yes they are because they want to pin a flip-flop on her.

WHICH IS BAFFLING TO ME BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE A GOOD ONE
 
D

dramatis

Member
Macho Madness said:
And the Daily News was initially going to run this cover until they found out the NY Post was endorsing Trump:

So they changed it to this:
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It's probably a bit whack when I looked at these and thought the Powerball is a bit low

NeoXChaos said:
12 would kill us down here. 15 would overkill.
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My mom was chatting really loudly on the phone this morning and she clearly said over the phone that "$15 minimum wage will ruin business owners".

I didn't say anything
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
NeoXChaos said:
12 would kill us down here. 15 would overkill.
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Yeah, I don't doubt it. Even 12 is pushing it. It would have to be over the course of several years slowly raising it to be 12.

a living wage isn't the same everywhere. You don't need 15 to have a living wage everywhere in the country. 15 is actually close to the median wage in some places.

Why NY and California standards need to be imposed on every state or bust is beyond me.

Also, once the federal floor is 12, it will incentivize coastal states, in order to stay competitive, raise their minimum wages higher than that. Arkansas isn't going to have the same minimum wage as New England. It'll go up.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
VendettaRed07 said:
Yeah, I don't doubt it. Even 12 is pushing it. It would have to be over the course of several years slowly raising it to be 12.

a living wage isn't the same everywhere. You don't need 15 to have a living wage everywhere in the country. 15 is actually close to the median wage in some places.

Why NY and California standards need to be imposed on every state or bust is beyond me.

Also, once the federal floor is 12, it will incentivize coastal states, in order to stay competitive, raise their minimum wages higher than that. Arkansas isn't going to have the same minimum wage as New England. It'll go up.
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Yeah, that was perhaps the most frustrating part of the debate how Sanders used people's lack of knowledge on economics and the differences between states to say; 'Stupid Hillary, just raise the Minimum Wage to infinity, it's that easy!'

I should be less surprised, it's a common tactic he likes to use.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Hillary has a bad habit of not giving yes or no answers when they also allow for nuances. A lot of the time she can say "yes but..." People will ignore the rest but equivocating from the start makes Sanders sound like he's radically different.
 
E

East Lake

Member
CCS said:
These are UK cases, because those are the ones I'm most familiar with, which highlight the problem with rising anti-semitism on the left:

NUS President Election Candidate, Malia Bouattia, Responds To ‘Anti-Semitism’ Claims




Labour Suspends Party Member Vicky Kirby AGAIN After MPs Urge Jeremy Corbyn To Take Action On Anti-Semitism




CdgkohBXEAEPnBT.jpg


Oxford University's Labour Club Accused Of 'Having A Problem With Jews'




KCL's Student Israel society attacked by demonstrators




All of these are just from this year.
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Like I said I don't doubt there are issues with anti-semitism but the question you have to ask yourself is whether this translates over to actual policy. It wasn't that long ago that David Duke was at Iran's Holocaust conference telling people the gas chambers weren't used for killing people, but the general skepticism of it there didn't prevent a deal from getting done.
 
D

Daniel B·

Banned
pigeon said:
I actually don't think there's anything in the speeches, I think this is #justClintonthings again. Hillary probably just doesn't feel like she should have to release the speeches and feels like the media's being unfair to her. I don't think she is right, but it's a characteristic habit for the Clintons.

For a comparable, see Mitt Romney's mysterious disappearing tax returns. The reality is, despite all the excitement people (including me!) engaged in back in 2012, there's no way Mitt Romney has anything illegal in his tax returns. That's the whole point of being rich, you can hire people to make sure you pay the minimum without breaking the law. But he still refused to release them. In the end it probably wasn't anything shady (unless it really was that thing about him not tithing enough), he just didn't want to let people know.
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Oh Pigeon; tsk, tsk! You must be hoping PoliGAF readers have the memory of a gnat; as I'm sure some recall, wasn't there a poster, not that long ago, who seemed reliable, and who stated that they were aware of the contents of one of Hillary's Wall St. speeches, and it would have most certainly lost her an up coming primary, had she released it at the time?
 
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