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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
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Poodlestrike
Banned
User 463088
Banned
No apologies Trump. Just pay Katrina Pierson to say she slept with Cruz or something. Finish this race bro.
I see what she's doing here. It's not effective at swaying independents buuuut...
Eh, turnout is as important as pandering to the base. Something Clinton is still having a blind eye to it appears (which is why we destroyed her in 2008). Her supporters are letting their anger and elitism (ish) get in the way of trying to court Sanders voters. While this election is weird enough she may not need them - I'm surprised Sanders triggered War Clinton. You will need the Sanders supporters in non 2016 elections, and being dicks about it is not helpful, frankly. I went from 50/50 Clinton/Sanders to 20/80 Clinton/Sanders just from HillaryGAF alone.
Also, honestly, y'all realize that currently, this thread is about as bad as the Sanders supporters in terms of dismissiveness and insulting bullshit, right? I think I saw an "successful people support Clinton, broke people support Sanders" bullshit statement, seeing as Asian-Americans are going for Sanders in droves, and they sure as hell make more money than y'all.
While this isn't '08 by any stretch - I am worried that a smart GOP candidate (non 2016, obviously) could rip a seam in the tenuous alliance that is the Democratic coalition currently. Fundamentally, we all want shit to get better for those who are not doing good, (or in my case, don't want the stratification and the consequences that come from a massive wealth gap) - considering Sanders is DOA, we need to be gracious winners until December.
The GOP is our target. Do not lose focus.Macho Madness
Member
User 463088
Banned
Challenge accepted.
Macho Madness
Member
Eh, turnout is as important as pandering to the base. Something Clinton is still having a blind eye to it appears (which is why we destroyed her in 2008). Her supporters are letting their anger and elitism (ish) get in the way of trying to court Sanders voters. While this election is weird enough she may not need them - I'm surprised Sanders triggered War Clinton. You will need the Sanders supporters in non 2016 elections, and being dicks about it is not helpful, frankly. I went from 50/50 Clinton/Sanders to 20/80 Clinton/Sanders just from HillaryGAF alone.
Also, honestly, y'all realize that currently, this thread is about as bad as the Sanders supporters in terms of dismissiveness and insulting bullshit, right? I think I saw an "successful people support Clinton, broke people support Sanders" bullshit statement, seeing as Asian-Americans are going for Sanders in droves, and they sure as hell make more money than y'all.
While this isn't '08 by any stretch - I am worried that a smart GOP candidate (non 2016, obviously) could rip a seam in the tenuous alliance that is the Democratic coalition currently. Fundamentally, we all want shit to get better for those who are not doing good, (or in my case, don't want the stratification and the consequences that come from a massive wealth gap) - considering Sanders is DOA, we need to be gracious winners until December.
I've honestly not been trying to say nasty things.
That's one dick I'd always lick.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The etymology of this stuff is so curious to me. Like, that was once a perfectly innocent sounding thing to say, and now it's not. How'd that happen?
excelsiorlef
Member
I've seen no one say really anything nasty at all either.
Eh, turnout is as important as pandering to the base. Something Clinton is still having a blind eye to it appears (which is why we destroyed her in 2008). Her supporters are letting their anger and elitism (ish) get in the way of trying to court Sanders voters. While this election is weird enough she may not need them - I'm surprised Sanders triggered War Clinton. You will need the Sanders supporters in non 2016 elections, and being dicks about it is not helpful, frankly. I went from 50/50 Clinton/Sanders to 20/80 Clinton/Sanders just from HillaryGAF alone.
Also, honestly, y'all realize that currently, this thread is about as bad as the Sanders supporters in terms of dismissiveness and insulting bullshit, right? I think I saw an "successful people support Clinton, broke people support Sanders" bullshit statement, seeing as Asian-Americans are going for Sanders in droves, and they sure as hell make more money than y'all.
While this isn't '08 by any stretch - I am worried that a smart GOP candidate (non 2016, obviously) could rip a seam in the tenuous alliance that is the Democratic coalition currently. Fundamentally, we all want shit to get better for those who are not doing good, (or in my case, don't want the stratification and the consequences that come from a massive wealth gap) - considering Sanders is DOA, we need to be gracious winners until December.
none of us are being nasty. Take cues from your buds Plouffe and Pfeifer. You worry too much. Take it one day at a time my friend.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's almost exclusively been frustrations over Sanders hipocracy, and especially his supporters utter delusion and denial of facts and reality.
User 463088
Banned
Eh, turnout is as important as pandering to the base. Something Clinton is still having a blind eye to it appears (which is why we destroyed her in 2008). Her supporters are letting their anger and elitism (ish) get in the way of trying to court Sanders voters. While this election is weird enough she may not need them - I'm surprised Sanders triggered War Clinton. You will need the Sanders supporters in non 2016 elections, and being dicks about it is not helpful, frankly. I went from 50/50 Clinton/Sanders to 20/80 Clinton/Sanders just from HillaryGAF alone.
Also, honestly, y'all realize that currently, this thread is about as bad as the Sanders supporters in terms of dismissiveness and insulting bullshit, right? I think I saw an "successful people support Clinton, broke people support Sanders" bullshit statement, seeing as Asian-Americans are going for Sanders in droves, and they sure as hell make more money than y'all.
While this isn't '08 by any stretch - I am worried that a smart GOP candidate (non 2016, obviously) could rip a seam in the tenuous alliance that is the Democratic coalition currently. Fundamentally, we all want shit to get better for those who are not doing good, (or in my case, don't want the stratification and the consequences that come from a massive wealth gap) - considering Sanders is DOA, we need to be gracious winners until December.
Number one, ya'll didn't destroy her in 2008. Obama won, definitely, but it wasn't destruction. If it was, 2016 should be renamed the nuking of Bernie Sanders.
Number the second, I don't think anyone doesn't believe successful people support Bernie. I'm sure a lot of his supporters are in the top 5% of baristas nationwide. (I KID! I KID!) It's politics. Make fun of each other (nicely.) Ain't no thang. Someone accusing me of being a corporate, war loving shrill, I go with it. I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who post in here know when we're being serious. Learn to laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Number the third, while "we" (meaning Hillary's supporters) do want the Bernie people, we also have an obligation to gently correct people when they're wrong. Some of the things the Bernie campaign has been throwing at Hillary are just not factually accurate. To pretend we have to take it because we'll need them simply gives them a blank check to do and say anything. That ain't happening, my friend.
A substantive debate on difference is fine. Character smears and personal insinuations are not.
To be fair, the Nixon billboard is fantastic.
uhhh...no. There was a full page (at 100 posts a page) of how Sanders supporters are delusional, dumb, misguided, and frankly, poor college students a few pages ago. Just because it's coded in fancy words doesn't mean it's elitist bullshit all the same.
I know we are winning, and this is the curse of being on top - but as much as you want to pile on the obvious loser, Sanders is being super nice compared to what will happen once July and August hit.
EDIT:
A) Nuking is too light. Once Sanders didn't win Iowa, outside of getting indicted for email shenanigans, the primary was functionally over. :-D. But, considering her structural advantages and her entire campaign strategy "We're Inevitable!" to a midwestern black man with a funny name, as well as my personal bias, damn right I'm calling it destruction.
Because I started pre-US Senate seat, it's crazy that someone went in 5 years from "state senator with no chance in party primary" to POTUS. Thank you Star Trek / Seven of Nine!B) Fair. I'm still super tight from 2008, and the racial / assassination comments she made unprompted give me a super dour view of folks when they are campaigning (and her accusatory statements of us when we fucking said publicly we didn't think she was being malicious). But there was a pretty good circle jerk in here about "poor people wanting shit voting for Bernie". I get it, considering I want to block half of my friends who are Bernie supporters until like August or something. (been using FB to communicate more with the missus, and dear lord, the Bernie support and memes, someone fucking save me). But this thread was not that much better.
C) Sanders is sort of stuck in a weird position. Based on his core campaign assertion, that corporations have functionally taken over politics (which..I sort of agree, yay unfettered capitalism) - he should have either gone all in on Clinton or not at all. He's operating in this weird limbo. Are politicians influenced by craptons of money being donated? Abso-fucking-lutely. But in a primary...if you don't want to scorched earth, he's kind of caught in a no-win situation. Personally, as much as I think he's right, once Trump and Cruz got involved, he should have pivoted to helping Clinton. But if he's being super principled (which...I am not as much of a fan of) - he's caught in between his principles and his political practicality. Sanders apparently can't figure out how to walk the tightrope (protip: DON'T. Just fucking hammer the GOP on it. Sanders lost. Get over it. But I digress)
Double Edit because Adam types faster than I do
See my edited statement; but I more or less agree with you. That said, as someone who has seen the long-term influence of corporate money in politics as opposed to the US - it absolutely terrifies me, and I get if Sanders is caught on his crusade. At this point, it is also on Clinton to realize she is going to win, and just forcefully aim at taking down the GOP, even if Sanders' campaign hasn't realized they should yet. She's won. Stop worrying about Sanders. This isn't Obama 2.0 where you are going to get burned for trying to act like the presumptive nominee. Math don't lie, as it were.
Full GOP shift should have happened a week ago, and it should be done ASAP at this point, IMO.User 463088
Banned
To be fair, the Nixon billboard is fantastic.
uhhh...no. There was a full page (at 100 posts a page) of how Sanders supporters are delusional, dumb, misguided, and frankly, poor college students a few pages ago. Just because it's coded in fancy words doesn't mean it's elitist bullshit all the same.
I know we are winning, and this is the curse of being on top - but as much as you want to pile on the obvious loser, Sanders is being super nice compared to what will happen once July and August hit.
The difference between now and August is that you don't get brownie points for not being an ass to someone (supposedly) in your own party.
Macho Madness
Member
Kennedy licked Dick
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Still, in the GE I try to keep arguments about policy. Democrats do need to be careful, and still attack things that are too far left. Like his crazy economic projections. Republicans have constantly made that mistake by refusing to attack Trump from the left.
So posted this to my Facebook feed. A few of them need to hear the hard truth - not that it will make much difference. I'm convinced some of them simply want the equivalent of the French Revolution to happen here. They're not so far removed from Trump supporters in that regard.
excelsiorlef
Member
To be fair, the Nixon billboard is fantastic.
uhhh...no. There was a full page (at 100 posts a page) of how Sanders supporters are delusional, dumb, misguided, and frankly, poor college students a few pages ago. Just because it's coded in fancy words doesn't mean it's elitist bullshit all the same.
I haven't seen it, but I'll take you word for it.
I don;t think the general regulars round here have been doing that though. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Well some of the stuff that was posted today had a lot to do with a troll coming in and riling people up.
In general I agree that Clinton needs the support of most Sanders voters and so it isn't a good idea to go around antagonizing people. Still I don't think there's too much harm in laughing at some of the absurdities of the race, and some of the stuff put out by Sanders supporters on how he's actually winning makes Unskewed Polls look rational. In case it isn't clear, I don't think it's anything other than a vocal minority of his supporters that buy into these arguments, and when I post about some of the more ridiculous articles and images that are making the rounds, I don't intend it as an indictment of Sanders supporters in general.
In general I agree that Clinton needs the support of most Sanders voters and so it isn't a good idea to go around antagonizing people. Still I don't think there's too much harm in laughing at some of the absurdities of the race, and some of the stuff put out by Sanders supporters on how he's actually winning makes Unskewed Polls look rational. In case it isn't clear, I don't think it's anything other than a vocal minority of his supporters that buy into these arguments, and when I post about some of the more ridiculous articles and images that are making the rounds, I don't intend it as an indictment of Sanders supporters in general.
I will also say this.
Fellow Sanders fans: This is over. I get pushing the economic / corruption message. Heck, you can keep doing so until the convention. But, let us aim to push Clinton more towards our ideology on this method rather than attacking any perceived corruption. We can promote Sanders without denigrating Clinton. Please do so.
Fellow Sanders fans: This is over. I get pushing the economic / corruption message. Heck, you can keep doing so until the convention. But, let us aim to push Clinton more towards our ideology on this method rather than attacking any perceived corruption. We can promote Sanders without denigrating Clinton. Please do so.
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/u...column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
If you want the Democrats to not only win the presidency but take back control of congress, vote for Bernie.
I'm pretty sure Clinton is just pulling a Cuomo and pretends to support the party while secretly wishing for Republican control of Congress so she can push a right wing agenda.
excelsiorlef
Member
This isn't serious right?
Because yes I'm sure Clinton who has been fighting the GOP for decades is secretly one of them, I'm sure Clinton can't wait to sign the defund PP bill and I'm sure she's financing and fun raising down ticket democrats because she really wants them to lose.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
This is the beer talking, but goddamn it. This gave me cancer in my balls. Do you really believe Hillary is a GOP plant? For real? How? In what world can you claim to know what you are talking about if you think she is a secret Republican trying to sabotage the left? I genuinely want to hear you defend this, as I need something to entertain me while I work on dinner.
WayneMorse
Banned
Not really, just do what her husband did, push through shitty right wing neoliberal compromises that will further destroy the last remaining bits of the welfare state and fall back on a few social issues to say "look it could be worse!!!"
The fact is that four more years of Hillary Clinton means four more years of Debbie Wasserman Shultz and cronyism at the expense of leadership in the DNC.
I'm predicting a repeal of the consumer protections in the ACA under her while keeping the mandate intact.
Box of Kittens
Banned
The Goldwater Girl has been pulling a long con dating all the way back to working on the McGovern campaign in '72.
Wafflecakes
Member
Ready to leave the Bernie echo-chamber eventually?
His supporters are displaying Kim Jong Un levels of deranged ramblings.
Mrs. Manky
Banned
WayneMorse
Banned
I never said she was a secret plant by the GOP jesus christ Hillary supporters pulling the strawman again. I'm saying she's like Cuomo in New York who had to act like he supported a Democratic state senate but didn't give two shits about it once the nomination was wrapped up.
Also I don't even support Bernie, but you can't deny the facts he's the strongest Democratic candidate.
Also I don't even support Bernie, but you can't deny the facts he's the strongest Democratic candidate.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
I don't think I'm pulling a strawman out when you say she's secretly hoping for Republican control so that she can push a right wing agenda. I'm not twisting any of your words there.
excelsiorlef
Member
So what's Sanders then? Because he's not even acting like he cares about a Democratic Senate or House.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Clinton has done a lot to help downballot Democrats, and not just this cycle either. Sanders, not so much.
Claim Strawman:
Claims Hillary is a secret Republican:
Seems Sane.
You dont get to claim she wants a Republican Controlled Congress so she push her right wing agenda and claim strawman about being a secret GOP. That might fly in R/Politics and R/S4P, but not here.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
That's all part of the plan. If she raises millions for corrupt Dems that don't pass Sanders' purity test, it will all look like she's playing for our team. Until it's too late.
Wafflecakes
Member
BERNIE A GOP PLANT! He is obviously hoping to preserve the GOP congressional majority by not supporting dem candidates.
Buy now, sell after he wins NY, PA, CT, RI and MD.
WayneMorse
Banned
Never said she was a secret Republican.
But yes I would argue her ideological sympathies are closer to George W. Bush's than LBJ's or FDR's.
I'm sorry, What?
Pulling a Bernie here is not going to fly. If you want to argue what you are trying to argue, then don't run from the logical conclusion of your statements.
eBay Huckster
Member
i'm digging the juxtaposition of this sentence
with the absolute garbage that follows it
with the absolute garbage that follows it
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Show the receipts with this shit. I'm not trying to be an asshole about it, but I'm just tired of baseless attacks.
excelsiorlef
Member
It was wonderful timing.
Macho Madness
Member
I've always had "will she compromise social programs just for the sake of getting something done?" in the back of my mind for a while now and it's never been answered to my satisfaction.
eBay Huckster
Member
did she indicate that she would compromise social programs (particularly the big two, since we're already on the subject of hamfisted praise of FDR/LBJ) when it was literally up for discussion throughout the 108th and 109th congresses?
As in, the following post.
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