• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

Status
Not open for further replies.

pigeon

Banned
To be honest, assuming Hillary wins this year I'm a little worried about Paul Ryan in 2020. He has the charisma and look while also having the views that could unite the divided republican thinking. Really far off to be confident either way though.

I think Ryan has a good shot in 2020 or 2024 assuming he survives being the Speaker of the House.

That said, I think it is going to be very difficult for him to survive that. Speaker of the House is a very politicized position where you constantly have to make extremely unpopular decisions that you are personally wholly responsible for. Paul Ryan is no James K. Polk.
 
Che4yXmWwAAL5JW.jpg:large

damn, donald really not going after fiorina

Lucifer confirmed
 
Vote for Hillary Clinton?

Stay home?
It is so easy for you to say that when you're on the winning side. Now imagine it was 2008 and after George W. Bush destroyed the country, your only choice for a Democrat was an outed sexist but was otherwise progressive. Are you going to stay home? Why? Because you are so extreme in your convictions that you will not accept any victories if they come attached to someone you revile?

Because that choice comes with racism. Like, this is complete bullshit. If you're willing to vote for Trump because of his "conservative policies" or because you hate Hillary's policies, you are straight up saying that you are okay with promoting and empowering racism if you get the policies you want as a result.
I think you are painting the most disingenuous dichotomy. What exactly is being empowered here? The enforcement of immigration laws that already exist? Not allowing Syrian refugees to come here because the vetting process is (arguably) flawed? Looking out for the wages and jobs of American citizens? If the racist devil gets elected, what horrible thing happens that makes you believe conservatives should absolutely not vote for him this election and miss out on finally passing some legislation, getting a conservative judge nominated, doing something about terrorism, and securing the border? What is it, pigeon?

How does that NOT make you a racist? Serious question.
Because seriously impactful racist policies essentially won't happen. We have checks and balances in this country.

Hey, we stopped at 50%. That sounds like restraint to me! I think there's a pretty reasonable argument that the figure should be much closer to 80%. But I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
You can't label 80% of the GOP voters as racists. Why can't you? Because it's not productive. If the word racist is so broad that it entails that many people, then it is no longer meaningful useful.

You have really, truly lost your fucking shit.
Calm down, pigeon. Maybe you don't like me anymore but I still like you.

EDIT: We actually do have a sexist running for president right now: Bernie Sanders has a long history of writing despicable things about women. He was a grown man when he wrote those things, so there's no excuse. If Bernie Sanders somehow became the nominee, should you be so principled to sit the election out just because he said women fantasized about rape? I mean, your choice this election would be between a man who privately holds sexist views and a man who is indisputably racist? Are you sitting that one out to let the racist win?
 
I think Ryan has a good shot in 2020 or 2024 assuming he survives being the Speaker of the House.

That said, I think it is going to be very difficult for him to survive that. Speaker of the House is a very politicized position where you constantly have to make extremely unpopular decisions that you are personally wholly responsible for. Paul Ryan is no James K. Polk.

And Ryan hasn't had to fight yet. Boehner fought his last battle before stepping down.
 
Cruz will have a hard time winning reelection in Texas. Politically, I think he is done. He has just looked soooooo bad this election cycle.

There's no way Cruz is even seriously challenged in a Texas midterm election. 2024 is the earliest he could even be threatened. Ted Cruz is going to be around for a while yet.
 

studyguy

Member
I think Ryan has a good shot in 2020 or 2024 assuming he survives being the Speaker of the House.

That said, I think it is going to be very difficult for him to survive that. Speaker of the House is a very politicized position where you constantly have to make extremely unpopular decisions that you are personally wholly responsible for. Paul Ryan is no James K. Polk.

I do not envy that man's position given the kind of people who are currently sitting in the house. There's enough of the extreme right wing there to ruin any current speaker's day. Imagine having to babysit dudes out of like the Freedom Caucus. Fuck that man. I'd rather jump off a bridge.
 

Sibylus

Banned
If you can't show me the polaroids of a Trump rally pushing immigrants into mass graves with firehoses, you can't prove the racism.
 

Kangi

Member
Are holding "I'm a racist" signs?
Otherwise you can't infer intent from just a still shot.

Yes, but how do you know they're telling the truth with those signs? They'd need to be actively taking a polygraph test to prove they're honest with their racism.
 

APF

Member
Republicans are used to voting for racists and sexists who are otherwise conservative. The difference is that Trump is not even "otherwise conservative." Racism and sexism is his platform. He's a once-in-a-generation shitbag with literally no qualifications to run on. If that's not enough to get you to vote Libertarian it's not because you're a conservative.
 

Sibylus

Banned
My family is lifelong Republicans and none of them are voting for Trump. It's possible to be moral with your choices.
So extreme in their convictions they think being moral is more important than winning! Sad!

Are holding "I'm a racist" signs?
Otherwise you can't infer intent from just a still shot.
Yes, but how do you know they're telling the truth with those signs? They'd need to be actively taking a polygraph test to prove they're honest with their racism.
Doing good work, fellas.
 
So the R Nom contest essentially ends tomorrow, right? He's at 996 now, so he needs 241. With a strong Indy performance, he makes it so that California and New Jersey put him over that number outright.

I want to point out that I was one of the people saying last fall that this was going to happen. People like Jonathan Bernstein and PhoenixDark (RIP) were saying he wouldn't win a single primary. Now it's really going to happen.
 

Snake

Member
@hunterw
The protesters outside the Ted Cruz event are now chanting "No one likes you." One man shouted "You look like a fish monster!"

This is gross.

Fish monsters never did anything to warrant them being compared to Ted Cruz.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
My family is lifelong Republicans and none of them are voting for Trump. It's possible to be moral with your choices.

Same, actually. I was a bit surprised but also relieved to learn that my conservative extended family despises Trump, and hates Cruz also. I disagree with them in the past but I'm super super happy to confirm they're not that far gone

They're from Indiana also. My Aunt has no idea what to do. Kasich is the only candidate she can even remotely consider supporting and she knows that voting for him just sort of helps Trump
 

Havoc2049

Member
There's no way Cruz is even seriously challenged in a Texas midterm election. 2024 is the earliest he could even be threatened. Ted Cruz is going to be around for a while yet.

I'm not talking about against a Democrat in a general election. I'm talking about in a Republican primary. Cruz was weak to begin with and didn't even get 50%+ of the vote in his home state. He should have dropped out after the beating he took in the Northeast. He is just going from bad to worse here of late.
 

PBY

Banned
fish monster guy a legend

Tom LlamasVerified account
‏@TomLlamasABC
Rough day for Cruz.At last stop a man pulled the "too slow" handshake trick on him then shouted Cruz looked like a “fish monster"@bgittleson
 

User1608

Banned
I agree with that. If you support trump you are either a racist or are okay with a racist as president. At some point that is not a meaningful distinction to me.
I agree.

This going to be a painful fall. I can see the mental gymnastics already.
 
I think you are painting the most disingenuous dichotomy. What exactly is being empowered here? The enforcement of immigration laws that already exist? Not allowing Syrian refugees to come here because the vetting process is (arguably) flawed? Looking out for the wages and jobs of American citizens? If the racist devil gets elected, what horrible thing happens that makes you believe conservatives should absolutely not vote for him this election and miss out on finally passing some legislation, getting a conservative judge nominated, doing something about terrorism, and securing the border? What is it, pigeon?
I believe you are giving someone a serious benefit of the doubt if you think "concerns" about illegal immigrants taking jobs and our policies on Syrian refugees aren't at least somewhat rooted in racist beliefs.
 
I believe you are giving someone a serious benefit of the doubt if you think "concerns" about illegal immigrants taking jobs and our policies on Syrian refugees aren't at least somewhat rooted in racist beliefs.
They are definitely rooted in racist beliefs. At least the immigration one is. But the point is, if that's really the extent, who cares? Is this really qualitatively different from any other Republican?
 

PBY

Banned
They are definitely rooted in racist beliefs. At least the immigration one is. But the point is, if that's really the extent, who cares? Is this really qualitatively different from any other Republican?

Not really? Then regarding racism... ipso facto...
 

Havoc2049

Member
I believe you are giving someone a serious benefit of the doubt if you think "concerns" about illegal immigrants taking jobs and our policies on Syrian refugees aren't at least somewhat rooted in racist beliefs.

Using that logic though, every country on the face of the planet is racist, as every country has a border and immigration laws.
 
They are definitely rooted in racist beliefs. At least the immigration one is. But the point is, if that's really the extent, who cares? Is this really qualitatively different from any other Republican?
I don't think so but then again I don't think much more of someone supporting Ted Cruz over Donald Trump. They're all horrible.

Using that logic though, every country on the face of the planet is racist, as every country has a border and immigration laws.
There's a difference between having an orderly and fair immigration system (which we do not and should fix that) and running around screaming about illegals taking our jerbs.
 

pigeon

Banned
It is so easy for you to say that when you're on the winning side. Now imagine it was 2008 and after George W. Bush destroyed the country, your only choice for a Democrat was an outed sexist but was otherwise progressive. Are you going to stay home? Why? Because you are so extreme in your convictions that you will not accept any victories if they come attached to someone you revile?

If the Democratic candidate for president was as overtly sexist as Donald Trump is overtly racist, I would vote Green, because it would be a betrayal of progressivism and intersectionality to explicitly give power and voice to such a position.

I think you are painting the most disingenuous dichotomy. What exactly is being empowered here? The enforcement of immigration laws that already exist? Not allowing Syrian refugees to come here because the vetting process is (arguably) flawed? Looking out for the wages and jobs of American citizens? If the racist devil gets elected, what horrible thing happens that makes you believe conservatives should absolutely not vote for him this election and miss out on finally passing some legislation, getting a conservative judge nominated, doing something about terrorism, and securing the border? What is it, pigeon?

I am not sure going through this list of policies with you is going to be productive, because you seem way too invested in making racism okay, so let's start somewhere else.

Anybody who says that most Mexican immigrants are criminals and rapists should not be considered as a candidate for President. Or anything. Electing that guy is endorsing his view of Mexicans and of people of color, and just kind of taking on faith that that won't have terrible consequences for those people because somehow it won't happen. That is deeply immoral and selfish, but it's also super racist! So if you vote for Donald Trump you personally are a racist. I can make you a card and everything.

Because seriously impactful racist policies essentially won't happen. We have checks and balances in this country.

Kind of an important lesson of the Obama years is that we mostly don't, actually, because the executive branch is heavily empowered to act as it sees fit in the absence of clear and consistent action from the legislative branch.

You can't label 80% of the GOP voters as racists. Why can't you? Because it's not productive. If the word racist is so broad that it entails that many people, then it is no longer meaningful useful.

To be clear, I'm referring to 80% of the GOP primary voters, which is a much smaller group of people. But I still don't think this is an argument at all. Maybe America was literally built around racism and it was written into the constitution and it's taking a very long time to remove that element from our society, and lots and lots of Americans are still pretty racist because our whole society has institutional racism! That theory seems to mostly fit the facts!

Calm down, pigeon. Maybe you don't like me anymore but I still like you.

I am concerned about you. I'm not sure why you are so invested in justifying voting for a racist and explaining why it's not a big deal. None of the answers I can come up with are particularly good!

EDIT: We actually do have a sexist running for president right now: Bernie Sanders has a long history of writing despicable things about women. He was a grown man when he wrote those things, so there's no excuse. If Bernie Sanders somehow became the nominee, should you be so principled to sit the election out just because he said women fantasized about rape? I mean, your choice this election would be between a man who privately holds sexist views and a man who is indisputably racist? Are you sitting that one out to let the racist win?

I don't consider Bernie Sanders a sexist (I mean, except for the baseline level of sexism in our society), and I haven't seen any evidence that he is. The "women fantasize about rape" thing is basically a joke article given its utter lack of context, even though such context is actually available in the article, and I am actually disturbed yet again by your either disingenuous or surprisingly ignorant reference here. This is such a terrible comparison I can only hope you are embarrassed to have made it and won't mention it again.
 
Mate, if you vote for Trump, you're racist. Whether you admit it to yourself or not, you cannot overlook his views and policies with regards to race without being racist.
If you voted for jimmy carter and bill clinton, youre racist too

Your logic is taking us dangerous places ccs
 

Paskil

Member
fish monster guy a legend

Tom LlamasVerified account
‏@TomLlamasABC
Rough day for Cruz.At last stop a man pulled the "too slow" handshake trick on him then shouted Cruz looked like a “fish monster"@bgittleson

This is so amazing. I need video of this. Like I have a mental picture of the person that tell Ted Cruz he looked like a fish monster and I need validation.
 

Mael

Member
New York judge throws out lawsuit against Closed Primary system: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ed-primary-system-article-1.2622021?cid=bitly

Wasn't as hilarious as the Arizona case but still fun to read.
“The court is concerned that a ruling in (Moody's) favor will denigrate the associational rights of the political parties and their members and may lead to 'party raiding' whereby voters not aligned with a particular party or its philosophy or goals will vote for the weaker or weakest candidate ... to prevail in the general election,” the judge wrote.
 

Teggy

Member
There's no way Cruz is even seriously challenged in a Texas midterm election. 2024 is the earliest he could even be threatened. Ted Cruz is going to be around for a while yet.

I'm hoping he at least gets primaried. A good republican candidate could argue that he's an embarrassment to Texas.
 
I'm not talking about against a Democrat in a general election. I'm talking about in a Republican primary. Cruz was weak to begin with and didn't even get 50%+ of the vote in his home state. He should have dropped out after the beating he took in the Northeast. He is just going from bad to worse here of late.
Cruz is not so vulnerable that he's going to lose a primary, not unless all his donors turn on him.
 
Mate, if you vote for Trump, you're racist. Whether you admit it to yourself or not, you cannot overlook his views and policies with regards to race without being racist.

I don't think this is true, though I do think it means theTrump voter doesn't really prioritize bigotry as an issue overall.
 
Why does House of Cards think that Montana, the Dakotas, and Nebraska are significantly more important places to campaign for president in than Wisconsin?

ChYu89VUcAAsN5m.jpg
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Why does House of Cards think that Montana, the Dakotas, and Nebraska are significantly more important places to campaign for president in than Wisconsin?

ChYu89VUcAAsN5m.jpg

I was going to say that Wisconsin isn't really a swing state on the presidential level, but then yeah, compared to Nebraska and the Dakotas...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom