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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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I said Obama would win Virginia in 08 and 12. I called Hillary winning the Virginia primary handily months before it happened. I'm saying it now, Hillary wins Virginia, and it won't really be close. The demographics of the state are shifting away from Republicans, and Trump damn near lost the primary here because of the DC suburbs. The DC suburbs will be a bloodbath in November
 
I said Obama would win Virginia in 08 and 12. I called Hillary winning the Virginia primary handily months before it happened. I'm saying it now, Hillary wins Virginia, and it won't really be close. The demographics of the state are shifted away from Republicans and Trump damn near lost the primary here because of the DC suburbs. The DC suburbs will be a bloodbath in November
TERRY RIGGED IT
 
Trump hasn't pivoted yet because the primary isn't over. He's pulling a Stalin and forcing everyone to be with him or face public embarrassment. Establishment John and Newt Gingrich have already picked. Jeb and Lindsey seem to have picked as well. So by the end of this process the smoldering remains of the Republican party will be unified and he will be ready for the pivot.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
natesilver: I mean, the cynical interpretation is that voters come to the Republican Party for the cultural resentment, and then Ryan et al try to sell them on the movement conservatism once they’re in the building.

Trump suggests that not only is movement conservatism not the main draw, but you don’t really need it at all. Although I’d caution, as always, that Trump could be a sui generis case caused by, for instance, total dominance of media coverage.

Nate still won't let this go. I don't understand this viewpoint: The "media" did not magically convince over 50% of GOP voters to vote for Trump. Something in his message IS clicking with the angry, changing base. Nate has to understand this.
 
Nate still won't let this go. I don't understand this viewpoint: The "media" did not magically convince over 50% of GOP voters to vote for Trump. Something in his message IS clicking with the angry, changing base. Nate has to understand this.

Also, Nate was complicit in hyping Rubio and now wants the media not to do anything that might effect the race?
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Also, Trump doesn't seem like he's building a GOTV operation while Hillary has been for a while. How is he supposed to compete with that in states like North Carolina where turnout will be everything?
 
I said Obama would win Virginia in 08 and 12. I called Hillary winning the Virginia primary handily months before it happened. I'm saying it now, Hillary wins Virginia, and it won't really be close. The demographics of the state are shifting away from Republicans, and Trump damn near lost the primary here because of the DC suburbs. The DC suburbs will be a bloodbath in November
Betting Trump loses VA, FL and PA by over 10 points.

NC and OH are closer at around 5 and 7 respectively.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I said Obama would win Virginia in 08 and 12. I called Hillary winning the Virginia primary handily months before it happened. I'm saying it now, Hillary wins Virginia, and it won't really be close. The demographics of the state are shifting away from Republicans, and Trump damn near lost the primary here because of the DC suburbs. The DC suburbs will be a bloodbath in November

I think that's been the common belief here on poligaf already, even when we thought Rubio might have been the nominee.
 

Bowdz

Member
Nate still won't let this go. I don't understand this viewpoint: The "media" did not magically convince over 50% of GOP voters to vote for Trump. Something in his message IS clicking with the angry, changing base. Nate has to understand this.

Silver is dropping while the Wang is firmly rising.
 

Crocodile

Member
ChzOc1ZWMAA4i2d.jpg


I'm loving this pivot.

Holy shit is Trump going to blast every single Republican that insults him? What is going on? How did we get here as a society?
 
Also, Trump doesn't seem like he's building a GOTV operation while Hillary has been for a while. How is he supposed to compete with that in states like North Carolina where turnout will be everything?

Maybe someone should tweet it to him, but I don't want him to know...
 
Trump is a horrible human being, every inch of him. But he has a point. He does have a mandate from GOP voters who laughingly rejected party stalwarts like Jeb and Lindsey and said no to conservative wing of Cruz and Rubio.

Trump is really the captain, and he sees absolutely no benefit of bringing Lindsey onboard. In fact that will hurt him with his constituents.
 
DRAAAAAGGG Morning Joe

In slightly more detail, the plan would run like this: A right-wing third-party candidate would split the Electoral College, so no candidate reaches the 270-vote threshold. In that case, the House of Representatives would decide the winner, with each state’s delegation (regardless of population) casting two votes. Since Republicans control most state delegations, they would pick the winner, who would presumably be their right-winger, rather than Trump or (obviously) Hillary Clinton.

What gives the scenario the veneer of plausibility is that the last part of the plan is completely true. If the Electoral College deadlocked, then the House would really decide, and it really would give the presidency to the right-winger. The actual problem with the scenario is that the first part, where the independent somehow prevents anybody from gaining 270 electoral votes, is completely nuts.

Right now Clinton has the inside track to a majority of the Electoral College. Polls are a little dodgy at this early stage of the race, but most forecasters assume Clinton would win something like the states President Obama won in 2012, and perhaps some more if Trump fails to consolidate his party. That assumption isn’t terribly important. What’s important is that adding a right-wing splinter candidate would not reduce Clinton’s share of the Electoral College at all. It would increase it. Every state gives its electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most votes. If Clinton wins 51 percent of the vote in Florida, she gets all 29 electoral votes from Florida. Crucially, states do not require a candidate to have a majority in order to win the state. And a right-wing independent candidate will draw overwhelmingly from Trump’s support. So an independent would not take any states away from Clinton.

Instead, that candidate would make it possible for Clinton to win a bunch of states without a majority. States where Clinton might otherwise fall a bit short of Trump would become blue states. Suppose in a two-candidate race that, say, Texas would give Trump 53 percent and Clinton 47 percent, giving Trump all 38 electoral votes from Texas. Then Ben Sasse jumps in the race and takes 10 percent of the vote, all of it coming from Trump. Now Texas is 47 percent Clinton, 43 percent Trump, and 10 percent Sasse.

Now, Halperin raises a different possibility — that an independent like Sasse could win purple states like Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado. But that scenario is completely fantastical. Winning purple states that Democrats have won each of the last two elections is hard. Doing it without a major-party label, and while splitting the vote with the Republican candidate, is impossible. Neither Ben Sasse, Bill Kristol, nor the reanimated corpse of Ronald Reagan is going to win a three-way race against Hillary Clinton in any purple state when Donald Trump is taking conservative votes and running under the Republican banner. The third-party candidate could push any number of states to Clinton, depending on how well they perform, but they're not going to take any states away, which is the element required to make the plan work.

Halperin is the worst.
 

Makai

Member
Trump hasn't pivoted yet because the primary isn't over. He's pulling a Stalin and forcing everyone to be with him or face public embarrassment. Establishment John and Newt Gingrich have already picked. Jeb and Lindsey seem to have picked as well. So by the end of this process the smoldering remains of the Republican party will be unified and he will be ready for the pivot.
Newt Gingrich was forced from the House in disgrace. Not the establishment.
 
I can just imagine the election night thread when those first returns from rural Virginia start trickling in.
Yeah that first five minutes is going to be pretty insufferable.

Did anyone else experience people freaking out in 08 after just Vermont and (I believe) Kentucky had been called and McCain had a whopping 8-3 lead? It was like calm down you ninnies, they've called two whole states.
 
Ok why does anyone think a right-wing third party candidate would split the vote and force both candidates under 270? All that's going to happen is

Hillary 45
Trump 30
Stupid Asshole 25

At best (for republicans). That would easily be enough for Hilly to win PA, MI, FL, OH etc. Democrats aren't going to abandon her just because there's two Republicans running.
 
Ok why does anyone think a right-wing third party candidate would split the vote and force both candidates under 270? All that's going to happen is

Hillary 45
Trump 30
Asshole 25

At best (for republicans). That would easily be enough for Hilly to win PA, MI, FL, OH etc. Democrats aren't going to abandon her just because there's two Republicans running.
It's because MARK HALPERIN IS THE WORST and people still listen to him for some reason
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ok why does anyone think a right-wing third party candidate would split the vote and force both candidates under 270? All that's going to happen is

Hillary 45
Trump 30
Stupid Asshole 25

At best (for republicans). That would easily be enough for Hilly to win PA, MI, FL, OH etc. Democrats aren't going to abandon her just because there's two Republicans running.

I don't think anyone thinks its actually possible. It isn't calculated to make Hillary lose any states.
 
Ok why does anyone think a right-wing third party candidate would split the vote and force both candidates under 270? All that's going to happen is

Hillary 45
Trump 30
Stupid Asshole 25

At best (for republicans). That would easily be enough for Hilly to win PA, MI, FL, OH etc. Democrats aren't going to abandon her just because there's two Republicans running.
The third party run is an attempt to save down ticket ballot. Red senators and congressmen can hang their hats on a Romney 3rd party run while distancing themselves with the Toxic waste that is Trump.
 

Paskil

Member
This is seriously going to be the best election ever. I mean, it's already been amazing, but man, the best is definitely coming.
 

Bowdz

Member
Ok why does anyone think a right-wing third party candidate would split the vote and force both candidates under 270? All that's going to happen is

Hillary 45
Trump 30
Stupid Asshole 25

At best (for republicans). That would easily be enough for Hilly to win PA, MI, FL, OH etc. Democrats aren't going to abandon her just because there's two Republicans running.

Agreed.

It may shore up support for down ballot races, but it would lead to a 400+ EV win for Hilldawg.
 

HylianTom

Banned
We're now less than 6 months away.

It's been a while since I've watched the Election Night 2012 broadcast. Might be time to do that this weekend.

I said Obama would win Virginia in 08 and 12. I called Hillary winning the Virginia primary handily months before it happened. I'm saying it now, Hillary wins Virginia, and it won't really be close. The demographics of the state are shifting away from Republicans, and Trump damn near lost the primary here because of the DC suburbs. The DC suburbs will be a bloodbath in November
For much of 2012, we leaned on "Ohio will deliver." I still think Virginia will be the dagger this time. It may "only" be 13EVs, but the math just becomes so damn impossible when those 13 are called.
 

Bowdz

Member
The third party run is an attempt to save down ticket ballot. Red senators and congressmen can hang their hats on a Romney 3rd party run while distancing themselves with the Toxic waste that is Trump.

I'm skeptical that even that would work. Basically a majority of the GOP electorate has voted for or is currently showing support for Trump. If they fracture the party with a third party Romney run and the establishment candidates flock to support Romney, do we really think they will survive after pissing off the majority of the base in an election where the overriding theme has been the base feeling betrayed by the party elites. I just don't think any divided party will be able to save down ballot candidates.
 

Mintek

Banned
I'm skeptical that even that would work. Basically a majority of the GOP electorate has voted for or is currently showing support for Trump. If they fracture the party with a third party Romney run and the establishment candidates flock to support Romney, do we really think they will survive after pissing off the majority of the base in an election where the overriding theme has been the base feeling betrayed by the party elites. I just don't think any divided party will be able to save down ballot candidates.

I mean, not really. Romney got near 61,000,000 votes in 2012. Trump has 10.7 million through the primary.
 
I'm skeptical that even that would work. Basically a majority of the GOP electorate has voted for or is currently showing support for Trump. If they fracture the party with a third party Romney run and the establishment candidates flock to support Romney, do we really think they will survive after pissing off the majority of the base in an election where the overriding theme has been the base feeling betrayed by the party elites. I just don't think any divided party will be able to save down ballot candidates.

There is also the hurdle related to the logistics of even creating the organization and candidate to launch a 3rd party run, especially now that it's too late to go the independent route.

So, while I'm sure the polls will tighten closer to the election, it looks like Georgia and Arizona will be the legit battleground States while NC is lean Dem.

HOLY SHIT
I'd be more excited if the Georgia senate race was competitive.
 

HylianTom

Banned
Even if the race tightens, it likely won't tighten enough to make us sweat all that much.

(With numbers like this coming from state like Georgia, it does make the panicking/insecurity in certain places all that much more entertaining/annoying.)
 
I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatch, but if we can make them play defense in Georgia...HAHAHAHAHAHA

Also, I'm an amazing cook. Orange marinated steak, cheddar mashed potato and homemade bread. GET REKT WAISTLINE.
 
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