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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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gaugebozo

Member
Wow, Trump is really taking Cult of Personality to new levels in American politics.

Trump: I don't think GOP has to be unified



Scorched earth it is.
Inauguration day, 2017. With faint cries of "YASSS! QUEEEN!" in the background, President Hillary Clinton steps into a dark room, alone for the first time all day. "Finally, I have a chance to do something important." Is she going to start work on an ambitious first 100 days? Take a much deserved break?

She puts on a black robe with hood, and turns on videoconferencing equipment. A fuzzy image flickers into view. It is a man wearing dark clothing and a unique helmet. He is kneeling. He presses buttons on the side of the helmet, and a faint hiss can be heard as he carefully removes it. Underneath is the face of Donald Trump. "What is thy bidding, my master."
 

CCS

Banned
Inauguration day, 2017. With faint cries of "YASSS! QUEEEN!" in the background, President Hillary Clinton steps into a dark room, alone for the first time all day. "Finally, I have a chance to do something important." Is she going to start work on an ambitious first 100 days? Take a much deserved break?

She puts on a black robe with hood, and turns on videoconferencing equipment. A fuzzy image flickers into view. It is a man wearing dark clothing and a unique helmet. He is kneeling. He presses buttons on the side of the helmet, and a faint hiss can be heard as he carefully removes it. Underneath is the face of Donald Trump. "What is thy bidding, my master."

Hahaha that would be incredible.
 

Ecotic

Member
We can only assume Trump is a full-blown narcissist who believes everyone's just going to fawn over his greatness and he doesn't have to unify the party or move to the center or anything. His behavior since getting the nomination is so irrational otherwise.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
On CNN today, Sarah Palin says she'll actively work to get Paul Ryan to lose his election.
 

Cheebo

Banned
It is insane how many in the OT seem to honestly believe Bernie had more votes than Hillary but the only reason he lost was the DNC rigged the election. With the proof being "exit polls!".
 
Ugh, just lost all respect for Bryan Cranston thanks to Real Time. "We need a viable 3rd party, one that's socially conscious but fiscally responsible." Fuck off, Cranston. At least Dan Savage called him on that bullshit saying "those are called Democrats."

That really doesn't seem like a bad opinion. If you're going to hate everyone that disagrees on fiscal issues you're going to have a hard time. To me, it is far more important that he agrees on social issues.
 

Maledict

Member
That really doesn't seem like a bad opinion. If you're going to hate everyone that disagrees on fiscal issues you're going to have a hard time. To me, it is far more important that he agrees on social issues.

The problem is there *is* a fiscally responsible party. It's called the Democratic party. To say they aren't fiscally responsible is to deny objective reality, and it just plays into the lies around democrats being tax and spend.

It's a standard republican talking point dressed up in a fancy manner, but it doesn't ultimately get away from the fake it's a crock of shit.
 
That whole "fiscal conservative, social liberal" is some bullshit, and have always felt like two incomparable ideologies to lump in with one another. I'm not sure how you can provide the significant investment needed to be a truly "socially liberal" society when you want a small government, lower taxes and defunding everything good, which is what I think when I hear "fiscal conservationism"
 
The problem is there *is* a fiscally responsible party. It's called the Democratic party. To say they aren't fiscally responsible is to deny objective reality, and it just plays into the lies around democrats being tax and spend.

It's a standard republican talking point dressed up in a fancy manner, but it doesn't ultimately get away from the fake it's a crock of shit.

Neither party has been particularity fiscally responsible. In recent history, Democrats have been better about keeping the deficits down, but they can still leave a lot to be desired to perfectly rational people. Your absolutist take is the real crock of shit.
 
It's always fiscally irresponsible to pay down the federal debt, and it's fiscally irresponsible to reduce the deficit when inflation is minimal and growth is needed to support the labor market. Democrats are the fiscally responsible party in recent years at the federal level in recent years.

The same does not necessarily hold true at the State level.
 

pigeon

Banned
Neither party has been particularity fiscally responsible. In recent history, Democrats have been better about keeping the deficits down, but they can still leave a lot to be desired to perfectly rational people. Your absolutist take is the real crock of shit.

Perfectly rational people know that the deficit is irrelevant in the new world of negative interest in government debt. It takes a good amount of irrationality just to care about the debt at all!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/08/polit...-donald-trump-marco-rubio-ted-cruz/index.html

Top officials of the Cruz campaign are convinced there is one specific step that could have stopped Trump -- and they blame Sen. Marco Rubio for not taking that step.

In early March, it became clear that Trump was well on his way to the nomination and would even likely defeat Rubio in his home state of Florida's March 15 primary. According to several sources close to Cruz, the Cruz campaign conducted several secret polls to see what the impact would be if Rubio joined Cruz as his running mate, with Cruz at the top of the ticket.

The Cruz campaign polled in three March 15 primary states, Illinois, Missouri and North Carolina -- though not in Ohio, home to Kasich, or in Florida.
They also tested the matchup in a poll in Arizona, which would hold its contest on March 22, and in Wisconsin, which would hold its primary on April 5.
What did polls suggest a Cruz-Rubio ticket would do in those states? "Blowout," said a source close to Cruz. "65%-35%," with Trump losing.

I cannot believe how delusional these people are. Heads in the sand. Are they completely forgetting the terrible reaction to the Cruz/Kasich alliance? The thing that turned a lot of voters away from both candidates? A Cruz/Rubio ticket would have been a disaster. These "secret polls" only poll establishment, not the general public voters. It's like unskewed polling.
 
Perfectly rational people know that the deficit is irrelevant in the new world of negative interest in government debt. It takes a good amount of irrationality just to care about the debt at all!

Lol. That's an irrational take you have there. Budgets set now affect years into the future, and the overall level of debt does matter because at some point the debt becomes unpayable.
 

Makai

Member
“I have to stay true to my principles also. And I’m a conservative, but don’t forget: This is called the ‘Republican Party,’ not the ‘conservative party,’ ” Trump said.

Boom
 

Drek

Member
Lol. That's an irrational take you have there. Budgets set now affect years into the future, and the overall level of debt does matter because at some point the debt becomes unpayable.

No, pigeon is on-point with his statement. The U.S. prints it's own money, the U.S. is not excessively reliant on any foreign market to maintain itself. Many foreign markets do rely on the U.S. to maintain themselves. The debt cannot become unpayable as the U.S. prints it's own currency. As long as inflation outpaces the interest rate on national debt the U.S. is effectively making money by carrying debt.

I can't recall who it was but I once saw a very eloquent lecture online by an economist arguing that we should really boil down our view of this as follows:
economic production = (exports - imports) + government deficit spending.

The concept is that as long as we run a trade deficit we will need to run a federal government spending deficit or we're effectively exporting wealth in an amount equal to the export:import differential. As such it is preferable to continue deficit spending and increase the national debt versus a forced economic recession in a pointless attempt to maintain a balanced budget for a nation that can literally print it's own money.

The U.S.' debt is, in fact, an economic driver for the country as most U.S. treasury bonds are held by individuals, a plurality of which are held by U.S. citizens. This gives ultra-low risk investment options for people nearing retirement or wealthy enough to play it safe while also giving the federal government liquidity that doesn't chain it to the latest tax policy that is in vogue or the vagaries of a potentially tumultuous economy.

This is where Trump's "just declare bankruptcy and negotiate" statement falls apart. U.S. bonds are supposed to be the safest investment in the world. Once they're brought into doubt all other investments are inherently more dubious. You also can't negotiate when you can print your own currency, all that does is devalue the currency and lead to massive cost inflation.

Moderate deficit spending at the top is a good thing for the U.S.. A net positive on exports would be better, sure, but we're a long ways from getting back to that standard and it would require the American people to have a better head on their shoulders about how where their money actually goes after they spend it. Excessive deficits is not good as it brings inflation on it's own. Excessive deficits to pay for foreign intervention is especially bad as it breaks the system, effectively borrowing more money to export more wealth, increasing the budget deficit and the trade deficit simultaneously.

We need to move towards a national alignment where states and municipalities are required to maintain a year to year balanced budget but the federal government is not, and the federal government is the backstop on state and municipal failure. This would prevent short term overspending by states hoping on pie in the sky economic turnarounds but also allow the federal government to step in quickly in the case of a major incident (like a hurricane, earthquake, etc.).
 

Makai

Member
Fo5ceVo.png

Don't all the mods play this game
 
No, pigeon is on-point with his statement. The U.S. prints it's own money, the U.S. is not excessively reliant on any foreign market to maintain itself. Many foreign markets do rely on the U.S. to maintain themselves. The debt cannot become unpayable as the U.S. prints it's own currency. As long as inflation outpaces the interest rate on national debt the U.S. is effectively making money by carrying debt.

I can't recall who it was but I once saw a very eloquent lecture online by an economist arguing that we should really boil down our view of this as follows:
economic production = (exports - imports) + government deficit spending.

The concept is that as long as we run a trade deficit we will need to run a federal government spending deficit or we're effectively exporting wealth in an amount equal to the export:import differential. As such it is preferable to continue deficit spending and increase the national debt versus a forced economic recession in a pointless attempt to maintain a balanced budget for a nation that can literally print it's own money.

The U.S.' debt is, in fact, an economic driver for the country as most U.S. treasury bonds are held by individuals, a plurality of which are held by U.S. citizens. This gives ultra-low risk investment options for people nearing retirement or wealthy enough to play it safe while also giving the federal government liquidity that doesn't chain it to the latest tax policy that is in vogue or the vagaries of a potentially tumultuous economy.

This is where Trump's "just declare bankruptcy and negotiate" statement falls apart. U.S. bonds are supposed to be the safest investment in the world. Once they're brought into doubt all other investments are inherently more dubious. You also can't negotiate when you can print your own currency, all that does is devalue the currency and lead to massive cost inflation.

Moderate deficit spending at the top is a good thing for the U.S.. A net positive on exports would be better, sure, but we're a long ways from getting back to that standard and it would require the American people to have a better head on their shoulders about how where their money actually goes after they spend it. Excessive deficits is not good as it brings inflation on it's own. Excessive deficits to pay for foreign intervention is especially bad as it breaks the system, effectively borrowing more money to export more wealth, increasing the budget deficit and the trade deficit simultaneously.

We need to move towards a national alignment where states and municipalities are required to maintain a year to year balanced budget but the federal government is not, and the federal government is the backstop on state and municipal failure. This would prevent short term overspending by states hoping on pie in the sky economic turnarounds but also allow the federal government to step in quickly in the case of a major incident (like a hurricane, earthquake, etc.).
And my point is that assuming inflation and interest rates are going to stay low is a bad idea.
 
..which is why you borrow more when they are and scale back when they aren't. You don't cut back now because it might go up later.

If you borrow too much now, it can become harder to borrow in the future once investors start to question your ability to pay back everything you've borrowed.
 
What a difference between you and me

When i was young i voted bush against gore in a class mock election because gore had a spotted tie in his photo that irked me

I don't recall if we had a class mock election in 1992, but if we did I almost certainly voted for Bush.

My class definitely had a mock election for 1996 and I voted for Dole. I also remember we had some sort of prediction contest and I totally colored in the map to give Dole the win. I bet those polls were skewed anyway.

In 2000 I was still too young to vote but I considered myself an independent who was so above it all. I "cleverly" called the candidate "Al Bush" and "George W. Gore" (BECAUSE THEY'RE THE SAME, GET IT!)
 

Crocodile

Member
Huh. This HIV/AIDS activist is on MSNBC complaining that the Sanders campaign is giving his team the cold shoulder (when even the Trump campaign has spoken to them) and calls his policies on the matter vague relative to Clinton's. I'm wondering what's making it hard for the Sanders campaign to respond. *scratches head*

That whole "fiscal conservative, social liberal" is some bullshit, and have always felt like two incomparable ideologies to lump in with one another. I'm not sure how you can provide the significant investment needed to be a truly "socially liberal" society when you want a small government, lower taxes and defunding everything good, which is what I think when I hear "fiscal conservationism"

I think there are points in this article that are worthy of debate but it does bring up the inherent conflict between "socially liberally, fiscally conservative".
 
On CNN today, Sarah Palin says she'll actively work to get Paul Ryan to lose his election.

Yep, that interview is on State of the Union right now. Said Ryan would end up the same as Cantor in getting primaried, she will support his primary opponent, that concerns about Trump are all superficial.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Huh. This HIV/AIDS activist is on MSNBC complaining that the Sanders campaign is giving his team the cold shoulder (when even the Trump campaign has spoken to them) and calls his policies on the matter vague relative to Clinton's. I'm wondering what's making it hard for the Sanders campaign to respond. *scratches head*



I think there are points in this article that are worthy of debate but it does bring up the inherent conflict between "socially liberally, fiscally conservative".

Too busy in California phone banking and courting supers.
 

Maledict

Member
So the idea that Benie would refocus on his message and not damaging Clinton or the Democratic party seems to have gone up in smoke. I understand they have to go through the grieving process, but it really does feel at this stage like he's causing damage and has no intention of trying to unify the party. At least in 2008 Clinton switched from attacking Obama when it was obvious she had lost.
 
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