Aaron Strife
Banned
"Hillary supporters? Fuck 'em"This popped up in my Facebook feed today
*rolls eyes*
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
plagiarize
Banned
I do think that speech is aimed at his supporters more than Sanders himself (who has voted in the senate for lots of things that he didn't agree with 100%). They aren't taking it well though as it finally crushed their fantasy that Obama was secretly pro Sanders.
I mean, it really hasn't looked like one, right? You brought Japan up as an example we don't want to follow but surely if we're trying to draw a lesson here it's that we're apparently far short of the amount of debt that would actually be a problem. This is really weird! You want to argue that the debt is a big problem because what if our interest rates suddenly shoot up and you do this by pointing to... a country with much more debt whose interest rates haven't gone up but which you say is going to suffer when its interest rates go up. This is not very persuasive.
And of course we can ask why it is that Japan is where it is. Quite plausibly the reason they've got such a huge amount of debt relative to GDP is that they've been unwilling to spend what's necessary to get out of the hole they're in. Are you saying that their problem is a wildly generous welfare state? Are you saying they'd be better off now if in let's say 2000 they'd started running a balanced budget? Because what I see is basically zero inflation and very weak growth since about 1990. The lesson from Japan is that deficit spending just enough to keep inflation positive, at least when growth is slow, does not seem to work very well (although, sure, maybe they're just doomed because they don't have enough babies). Your economy doesn't grow but your debt keeps going up. Of course it's more complicated than this but even if Japan should be super-concerned about its debt it kind of looks to me like the right move is obviously just to spend enough to drive inflation up to let's say 3 or 4% because that's going to drop debt-to-gdp faster than pretty much anything else. At 230% debt-to-gdp, 3% inflation is worth as much as a 7% budget surplus even if they could get that surplus without crashing their economy. Obviously real GDP would probably go up too if they were spending that much, and obviously it would go way down if they ran huge surpluses, and that's going to also have a big impact on debt-to-gdp.
It looks to me like the US has pretty safe levels of debt and that we can continue to deficit spend while relying on inflation and growth to stabilize debt-to-gdp in the long-term. This is especially true when interest rates are so low because we have a bunch of time to realize gains from public investment before we have to worry about paying back more than we borrowed. Higher interest rates 10 years from now are worth paying if we're growing faster in the meantime - debt-to-gdp might even be lower because of our deficit spending. You've been pretty vague on what it means to be "fiscally responsible", but if you're saying that the Democrats have clearly not been that then I've got to think that you're in favor of aiming to do something like balance the budget within some number of years. And I don't see why you'd aim for that unless for some reason you're expecting no inflation and no growth and very little impact of spending on either.
FloydtheFathead
Member
Docrivers.gif
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
This guy was one of the main #Gaters, omg.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I am not agreeing with the poster you responded to but I think you are underestimating the "baby problem". No amount of increase in debt spending is going to change the fact that their national pension model is quickly becoming unsustainable.
Use income tax to fund Social Security. Done.
This guy was one of the main #Gaters, omg.
To the surprise of no one
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Isn't That already how it's funded? From income taxes. Besides, the numbers are a lot worse than that. Not able to quantify right now.
StopMakingSense
Member
edit: i might be misunderstanding
Some more retroactive momentum for Bernie from Washington State, where he decimated Hillary with a 73% vs 27% win, and was awarded an extra 31 delegates, which reduces the pledged delegate gap to 291 
.
Here's a quote from WSJ's highly misleading article, as "Duh!", a five year old could tell you that a 31 delegate gain in Washington State "trumps" a puny one delegate loss (4 / 3) in Guam:
Rubs hands together in anticipation of a tasty win in West Virginia.
.Here's a quote from WSJ's highly misleading article, as "Duh!", a five year old could tell you that a 31 delegate gain in Washington State "trumps" a puny one delegate loss (4 / 3) in Guam:
Rubs hands together in anticipation of a tasty win in West Virginia
.StopMakingSense
Member
Everyone already factored in those delegates in their counts.
Payroll taxes. Which stop at 110k something
googleplex
Member
That;s because Hillary has more integrity the Bernie. She has enough humility to put the good of the nation ahead of her own Ego. Bernie continues to prove that he's completely bought into his own hype and cult he's built for himself.
User 463088
Banned
Daniel B·;202947063 said:Some more retroactive momentum for Bernie from Washington State, where he decimated Hillary with a 73% vs 27% win, and was awarded an extra 31 delegates, which reduces the pledged delegate gap to 291
Here's a quote from WSJ's highly misleading article, as "Duh!", a five year old could tell you that a 31 delegate gain in Washington State "trumps" a puny one delegate loss (4 / 3) in Guam:
Rubs hands together in anticipation of a tasty win in West Virginia
This was already taken into account by everyone from The Green Papers to Benchmark. These weren't new delegates.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Shhhhhhh, let him have his imaginary victory parade.
Oh we are talking about Japan? The fuck.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Daniel B·;202947063 said:
So his delegate deficit has been reduced from 291 to 291. This changes everything.
Yeah, sure. Maybe this was in a quick edit afterwards but I've got a parenthetical in there to that effect. Maybe there is literally nothing Japan can do other than start having lots of babies or robots.
It's still kind of weird to point at Japan (1) as an example of how terrible it is to have lots of debt, when their debt hasn't caused problems yet and they have lots more than us, and (2) as part of arguing that we should be much more "fiscally responsible", when Japan built up all that debt while spending basically just enough to avoid deflation.
Sure, maybe Japan would be much much worse off if they'd spent more money. Maybe they have pursued the optimal fiscal policy every step of the way and their strategy of holding inflation at 0 is a model for the world. But you certainly can't get that conclusion just by looking at Japan and noticing that they've got a lot of debt.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Holy fucking shit.
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/be...l-grind-and-that-s-why-he-should-lose-8355241
I have a new favorite political writer.
User 85168
Banned
Daniel B·;202947063 said:Some more retroactive momentum for Bernie from Washington State, where he decimated Hillary with a 73% vs 27% win, and was awarded an extra 31 delegates, which reduces the pledged delegate gap to 291
Here's a quote from WSJ's highly misleading article, as "Duh!", a five year old could tell you that a 31 delegate gain in Washington State "trumps" a puny one delegate loss (4 / 3) in Guam:
Rubs hands together in anticipation of a tasty win in West Virginia
So it went from 291 to 291?
User 463088
Banned
Daniel B·;202948039 said:Still holds up as a classic Danny B post
Oh my, are you self aware!?
Hope you're well. Long time no see.Retromelon
Member
God damn the character was broken I am so disappointDaniel B·;202948039 said:Still holds up as a classic Danny B post
Whats next, you will start supporting hillary!?
StopMakingSense
Member
Shit, and here I was almost convinced Daniel B was actually Tim Robbins.
It's why i edited, I thought you were talking about SS, not Japan's pension system.
It's why i edited, I thought you were talking about SS, not Japan's pension system.
OK you're right this article is legit amazing.
Level up your ACA character? Or delete it and start a new SinglePay character?
This is brilliant
TheChocoboCadet
Banned
I still can't believe we never had a debate/primary OT using FFXII as the theme. The Occuria were such an easy choice for the establishment, with HIllary (Ashe) as their chosen candidate and Bernie (Cid) as the crazy old guy trying to bring reign of history back into the hands of man.
Trump is the gift that keeps on giving. Usually the Republican civil war and circular firing squads don't start until after they lose the election.
Aaron Strife
Banned
But it's a red state in the south.Daniel B·;202947063 said:Rubs hands together in anticipation of a tasty win in West Virginia
Well, I guess anything that helps him catch up in any regard seeing as how Bernie has now lost more red states and more blue states.
Macho Madness
Member
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/728745639690031104
Yet another situation where reading past the headline is hard
Yet another situation where reading past the headline is hard
jack_package_200
Banned
Aaron Strife
Banned
The hypocrisy is so astounding.
You'll have him bragging about winning more Republican votes than Hillary in one speech, then he hops on Twitter to lambast Hillary's backers for hitting up Republican donors who are now without a party.
I'm at a loss at how this revolution is supposed to happen without getting some people to cross over from the other side.
No one votes Green Party and expects them to win, they just relish in the smugness of being above it all. I'm really starting to think the same of Bernie Sanders.
Fuck Jill Stein.
hammysaurusrex
Member
To be fair, it's hard to not fall for joke posters, seeing as how Sanders' campaign has essentially become a Poe - someone satirizing it is indistinguishable from a True Believer supporting it.
Macho Madness
Member
That sounds like a corporate media narrative. Wake up.
hammysaurusrex
Member
I will give Sanders' credit - he's been very smart to ignore Stein even though she's been trying to ride his coat-tails HARD through this whole process. I think he certainly recognizes that while the Green party might have some overlap with his ambitions and goals, the extra baggage (anti-vaccine, 100% anti-GMO, 100% anti-nuclear, instant 50% military reduction, etc.) is just toxic to actual progressive progress. Given an extreme, even he recognizes compromise takes center stage.
This article's amazing.
Fastest way for him to get a serious challenger is if people could tie him to the Green Party and their baggage instead of just letting him be Bernie Independent.
It was already going to happen, now the opposition will get support.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Black Republican
Member
the fuck
FreeRepublic was gloating about a poll that has his challenger out ahead of him by a pretty good margin, but I didn't recognize the pollster.
It'd be hysterical if it happened. It'd add greatly to the "GOP divided" narrative that's legitimately going-on. Good timing for August.
Nehlen: 48%
Ryan: 41%
http://prntly.com/2016/05/07/paul-ryan-panic-primary-challenger-nehlen-surges-to-lead-in-new-poll/
Code:
Pollster Dates Sanders Clinton Undecided
-------- ----- ------- ------- ---------
R.L. Repass & Partners/MetroNews 4/22 - 5/2 47 43 11
PPP (D) 4/29 - 5/1 45 37 18- Status