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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
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balladofwindfishes
Member
That's a far cry from way back last fall when Nate wouldn't even humor the idea of Trump ever even getting close to the nomination.
Also, with all the coverage of the Hillsborough disaster in the UK today, I will not have a lot of patience with people whining about the establishment rigging primaries later. If people want to see an establishment conspiracy, there's one, not your beloved revolution proving to be not all that popular.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Which was caused by white people moving in. Just stay out of their neighborhoods if you really don't want to push them out.
Should all the white tech workers in SF move to Oakland or Richmond to increase diversity?
Segregation and gentrification are different and unrelated. There is no endgame of gentrification. It is not a game of "move the blacks out so white people can move in". White people move in and push the blacks out!
Veritigo_X
Member
Yeah there was no mention of SCOTUS seats. I wish the people arguing this could look beyond the next 8 years.
Jack Remington
Banned
The other stuff besides the voter ID requirement is actually far more insidious, because it has zero justification besides reducing the number of votes cast. These are specifically and unambiguously anti-turnout measures.
Phanatic8390
Member
I don't know which button I pressed harder, Hillary Clinton or Abolish Traffic Court.
I'm not sure this is the complete picture. Like does it describe what's happening in the Mission in SF? All the white gentrifiers I've spoken to love the local traditionally Mexican/Latin American culture and supporting local businesses, but long-time residents just can't afford to stay.
This is segregation.
This is gentrification.
That's why they're related.
How to integrate without both the economic abandonment of white flight and the economic colonialism of gentrification is the conundrum.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
There are a lot of things about this that don't work for me.
A Bern themed $100,000 car just seems to fly in the face of his campaign. Not to mention, the near inevitability of his defeat makes it a little sad that someone spent so much time on it. Also, it's ugly as fuck.
balladofwindfishes
Member
This is the equivalent of those anime waifu Ferraris out in Japan.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
I don't have the photoshop skills or the time, but now I want to see a Bernie bodypillow. Maybe a Trump one would be more appropriate given his younger supporters.
Abinash117
Member
I'm sure he knows he won't win, but he wants to have some influence over the Democratic Party .http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/25/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign.html
He'll be more of a messenger after today if it is bad I think, but he'll still criticize the party here and there.
RustyNails
Member
Trump really needs to pull a victory outta his ass in Indiana. He needs to drive the point of the dirty deal Kasich and Cruz made. And also how Kasich eats like a neanderthal.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
No, you got BOTH wrong. Keeping people out of neighborhoods is segregation, not staying out. Getting pushed out of neighborhoods is gentrification, not pushing people out.
Gentrification and segregation are unrelated because one is an active policy that excludes races from contact with other races and the other is an emergent phenomena where prices go up because of increasing economic value and people have to move themselves out. And furthermore, I think it is disastrously ironic when we are talking about reducing gentrification and you suggest white people moving into black neighborhoods to integrate. If you cannot see that irony then I do not know what to say.
Furthermore, white flight is not economic abandonment. If they need the cheap labor from poor blacks, they'll get it. Gentrification is not economic colonialism because the colonized people have to leave! So much for colonization.
Aiming to shape the agenda is fine, that's what he should be doing. But he's going to have to stop railing against the party and against every Democrat who doesn't agree with him if he's going to do that.
Well he's favored, so he wouldn't be pulling a victory out of his ass. Maybe some other orifice.
RustyNails
Member
Macho Madness
Member
*cackles* *closes all the polls*
RustyNails
Member
Really? I figured IN is Cruz country. You cant drive 15 minutes on i-65 without seeing a huge billboard saying REPENT!
Followed by "Adults store take next exit!"
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Montana and South Dakota give more combined delegates than NJ and are winner take all.
Trump could probably talk to every Montana and South Dakota primary voter in person in a couple weeks to help himself out in those states, but he's probably too lazy.
Trump could probably talk to every Montana and South Dakota primary voter in person in a couple weeks to help himself out in those states, but he's probably too lazy.
aspiegamer
Member
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeew. Fucking kill me.
How about a Cruz one to celebrate his college days?
Not entirely, but close enough. Thankfully this is a "wrap" that can be removed.
Best comment there--
If he keeps up what he's doing though he very likely can forget even trying to shape the platform. There was an interview this morning I was listening to (don't know if it was live or a replay from yesterday) regarding this where he was talking about this and it sounded like he wanted to try and get the party to adopt all his ideas. That they need to. The interviewer was saying there is a very real possibility, if not most likely, they won't adopt a lot or any of his positions. Especially free college or single payer system, etc. I don't think he was willing to even acknowledge that would be the outcome. Truth is they're not going to adopt anything they're not going to be willing to defend in the general election and what goes against what Hillary herself was pushing. Expand on things yeah. They're not going to replace things she presented as contrast with Sanders. Those differences are what got her to win.
The question is will he make a scene of the process when he doesn't get his way because he has a real his way is the only way stance when it comes to a number of things?
She's much more substantive than Bernie as well.
Headline on CNN just now: "Sanders won't say unconditional support for Clinton"
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Why should we give any of that to him?
His opponent has different views on all of these and won.
He lost even while running on those things, you can't just demand that the loser dictates the terms.
OuterLimits
Member
Trump hits 50% nationally for first time in NBC Republican poll. Wouldn't surprise me if he bumps up a bit more if he does well today and because of the Cruz/Kasich alliance actually helping him some.
The whole Cruz/Kasich and NeverTrump stance that Trump has a ceiling of 35% is kind of funny.
The whole Cruz/Kasich and NeverTrump stance that Trump has a ceiling of 35% is kind of funny.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If Warren wasn't so old, she would have been an excellent follow up to 8 years of Hillary.
Hmm, just saw Bernie interviewed quickly on CNN. Unsurprisingly, he's gonna keep this going till CA (and beyond?). But regardless of the result tonight, Hillary's shifted almost entirely towards the general and the GOP anyway. The time for worrying about the primary is really over. Right now, it's just a matter of Bernie's folks coming to grips with reality and who knows if they ever will? Not worth worrying about when there are bigger things to tackle.
One other benefit if Dems have a really good night on GE day is if they get a good margin in the Senate they can completely marginalize him.
Bernie won't budge on his proposals being the future dem gospel. Clinton will most likely offer a weak olive branch and he will turn it down and then turn and make hay off it.
I also don't expect him to cut the "decrying the Democratic Party establishment" shit out because it's central to his campaign. It's something his supporters lap up readily and use at every turn to justify his meager wins or hard losses. If he migically started holding hands with Clinton and playing nice with the DNC his supporters will turn on him for betraying them and kowtowing to the dreaded ESTABLISHMENT.
I also don't expect him to cut the "decrying the Democratic Party establishment" shit out because it's central to his campaign. It's something his supporters lap up readily and use at every turn to justify his meager wins or hard losses. If he migically started holding hands with Clinton and playing nice with the DNC his supporters will turn on him for betraying them and kowtowing to the dreaded ESTABLISHMENT.
lol I know her (my hometown)
OuterLimits
Member
What a difference 2 weeks can make. After Wisconsin it looked like Trump was in big trouble and his numbers dropped to the upper 30s and Cruz was only couple points behind. It seemed impossible for Trump to get the magic number.
Now Trump is around 50% and Cruz is dropping back into the mid 20s. While still not easy for Trump to get the magic number, it seems more realistic now with his current polling nationally and more importantly in the states left. Or he gets super close and convinces a couple dozen uncommitted delegates to reach 1237.
Now Trump is around 50% and Cruz is dropping back into the mid 20s. While still not easy for Trump to get the magic number, it seems more realistic now with his current polling nationally and more importantly in the states left. Or he gets super close and convinces a couple dozen uncommitted delegates to reach 1237.
benicillin
Banned
He won't get all of that, obviously. He knows that and we all know that. He's bargaining and negotiating the support he's drummed up for pushing the Democratic platform further left. What he ends up getting? I've got no idea, but he should totally be allowed to negotiate.
I know a lot of people in this thread don't like Bernie, but it's really short-sighted to think that just because Hillary won that Bernie's whole campaign should be thrown out the window. There's a lot of people that want the Democratic party to move left, and maybe Bernie wasn't the right candidate to pull it off, but his message resonated and the DNC absolutely need to do something to keep his voters engaged.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't want him marginalized.
I just don't want the party being super doctrinaire.
I want a big tent, progressive party that makes progress, as incremental as it may be. I want a fact based party. Not a moral crusade. I want to win elections in places that aren't going to vote for an avowed socialist.
I just don't want the party being super doctrinaire.
I want a big tent, progressive party that makes progress, as incremental as it may be. I want a fact based party. Not a moral crusade. I want to win elections in places that aren't going to vote for an avowed socialist.
It's both. Racial discrimination in renting and real estate contributes to segregation, and so does self-selected segregation where people either flee neighborhoods or refuse to move into them based on the presence of minorities.
I genuinely don't know how to parse this. It sounds like semantics.
Well, I'm kind of with NYCmetsfan on the idea that some gentrification is good, since it increases integration and diversity and breathes more economic life into areas that badly need it. The problem is when those later more monied waves that pigeon talked about end up pushing out the original residents.
So, if you're a white person who cares about systemic racism, and you're looking for a place to live, what do you do? Do you pick a white area to avoid gentrifying minority areas? In that case, you don't contribute to gentrification, but you do contribute to perpetuating segregation. Do you pick a diverse area to reduce segregation? In that case, you're helping integration, but you're contributing to the possibility of gentrification down the line.
As far as I'm concerned, the real problem to be solved is racism, which is the root of all these problems, and as I said, that's going to be a lot harder if not impossible to solve without integration. So my personal perspective on choosing a place to live is to choose integration over segregation. That does carry the increased risk of gentrification, but you can't control everything.
That's... not what I'm talking about at all. When white flight happens, property values go down due to the neighborhood being less desirable because of racism, so the tax base is depleted, services and infrastructure suffer, local businesses lose revenue and collapse, and eventually the area is in terrible shape. That's economic abandonment. Same as when a big industry fails or leaves an area.
That's... pretty much what we did to the Native Americans!
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
I say this as a guy who just wants this to be over and is totally done with Bernie's shit... I don't want to see him vilified. I just don't think it does any good to shut him out, and even worse, I think it alienates his supporters, who should be welcomed into the fold when this is over.
I'm not thinking of Warren as a succeeding president, but rather as one of the faces of the party in the future. Since Bernie is not going to be president, then between a guy who lost a presidential primary and Warren, you're not going to present the crotchety old loser. In particular since her popularity was not built on the back of a presidential run, unlike Bernie who was mostly unknown.
That's how one could see it from a rather clinical view.
Going by Bernie's own campaign rhetoric him negotiating with the DNC is analogous to negotiating with terrorists to him. The DNC shouldn't give him anything until he repudiated his attacks against the organization and stops bad mouthing those trying to raise money to get Democrats elected to Congress and state and local office.
Not engaging him is not vilification. The only one doing vilifying in this process is Sanders himself. If he wants a place at the table he probably should stop shit talking the chef to their face.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't know why the left is so enamored with economic focused people becoming president.
Like half the job is foreign policy.
More warrens in the senate, not in the white house.
I'd rather see people like harris or governors who have a wider background than just economics be put up as presidential candidates.
Hell, to be honest as slimy as he is I think Cuomo would be a better president than someone like Warren or Bernie (because he's super amicable to activist pressure and has managed a pretty unmanageable state somewhat well). I'm kinda sick of legislators being president.
Like half the job is foreign policy.
More warrens in the senate, not in the white house.
I'd rather see people like harris or governors who have a wider background than just economics be put up as presidential candidates.
Hell, to be honest as slimy as he is I think Cuomo would be a better president than someone like Warren or Bernie (because he's super amicable to activist pressure and has managed a pretty unmanageable state somewhat well). I'm kinda sick of legislators being president.
blackaroni
Member
Increase the min. wage, reform Wall Street, and something something clean energy. There you go Bernie...you win.
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