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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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S

Slayven

Member
Iolo said:
8NmfftN.jpg
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YES I been wanting that all day
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Chichikov said:
Brexit, therefore [insert stump speech].

That's such a weak-ass op-ed, and man, it's a true shame that he's trying to tie his progressive agenda (which again, I wholeheartedly support) to that terrible Leave vote.
Not to mention that looking at that vote through strictly UK economic lens misses the point.
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nak3fya7fuoa.jpg


Oh you don't say.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
j_k_redtail said:
Sanders has an op ed in the NYT this evening:
Click to expand...

I know I already responded to this, but this really highlights everything wrong with Bernie Sanders to me.


Why does Bernie Sanders think the UK voted leave because they're fed up with the 1% having all the money? I've heard people pushing for sovereignty of law. I've heard yet more people wanting to prevent eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work. I've heard no one saying 'I'm fed up of the global economy'. Does Bernie blame income inequality when he stubs his toe? Running a single issue campaign was always a misstep. Trying to bend that square peg to fit in any number of hole shapes didn't do the rest of his platform any favours. And he did have a platform beyond income inequality... but for whatever reason instead of mainly focussing on the anti immigrant rhetoric that Donald Trump and the Leave campaign shared, he leads this editorial and spends most of his time banging on about the richest 62 people and how this needs to be a wake up call for Democrats to stop supporting globalism.

Leave winning isn't a wake up call saying we should embrace a more liberal platform. It's a wake up call that we must ensure we stand against the nationalism and anti immigrant sentiment of people like Donald Trump. Fortunately the DNC and Clinton are running a much better and more substantive campaign than Corbyn and Remain did, but chickens should not be counted. Let's not forget that the Labour party's elected leader is far more radical liberal socialist than Bernie Sanders, and that having a democratic socialist in charge of the party and involved in the Remain campaign didn't do much of anything to prevent Leave from winning.

Our opposition party already has a Sanderesque leader and platform.

It did dick all to prevent Leave winning.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
plagiarize said:
I know I already responded to this, but this really highlights everything wrong with Bernie Sanders to me.


Why does Bernie Sanders think the UK voted leave because they're fed up with the 1% having all the money? I've heard people pushing for sovereignty of law. I've heard yet more people wanting to prevent eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work. I've heard no one saying 'I'm fed up of the global economy'. Does Bernie blame income inequality when he stubs his toe? Running a single issue campaign was always a misstep. Trying to bend that square peg to fit in any number of hole shapes didn't do the rest of his platform any favours. And he did have a platform beyond income inequality... but for whatever reason instead of mainly focussing on the anti immigrant rhetoric that Donald Trump and the Leave campaign shared, he leads this editorial and spends most of his time banging on about the richest 62 people and how this needs to be a wake up call for Democrats to stop supporting globalism.

Leave winning isn't a wake up call saying we should embrace a more liberal platform. It's a wake up call that we must ensure we stand against the nationalism and anti immigrant sentiment of people like Donald Trump. Fortunately the DNC and Clinton are running a much better and more substantive campaign than Corbyn and Remain did, but chickens should not be counted. Let's not forget that the Labour party's elected leader is far more radical liberal socialist than Bernie Sanders, and that having a democratic socialist in charge of the party and involved in the Remain campaign didn't do much of anything to prevent Leave from winning.

Our opposition party already has a Sanderesque leader and platform.

It did dick all to prevent Leave winning.
Click to expand...

Thankfully the primary system and the diverse democratic coalition prevented him from being the Dem GE Candidate. At this point, i'm just surprised he got as far as he did. If he did anything, he exposed how terrible Dems have been at messaging since the 2014 midterms. Perhaps in some ways he gave Clinton cover to effectively solidify a further left platform, and maintain it through the general election. Take away the unsubstantiated accusations of fraud, and the bullshit us versus the establishment, and Sanders would probably be remembered as a footnote, as opposed to a boil.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Somehow both Sanders and Trump are fans of Leave (or at least the people that voted Leave). That means something is extremely wrong.

Poor Sanders must be in a sour mood, though. That could have been him campaigning to excited crowds with Clinton! But no, he had to be an egotistical dick and treat the party like shit for months, so Warren gets to do it instead. Plus he's mad he got zero calls about VP, though he should be smart enough to know he had a 0% chance of that regardless.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Box of Kittens said:
It practically feels like a parody of Bernie Sanders.

-Relate everything to income inequality (which, to be fair, is a very real problem)
-Misdiagnose the cause
-Offer up completely unworkable solutions
-Ignore racial issues
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Yeah, this editorial made me really angry. There's a giant racism problem in the UK and rather than legitimize Bernie Sanders' delusion that he is a national progressive figure worthy of his senatorial motorcade, he shows he has no clue about real issues when it really counts.
 
R

royalan

Member
If Bernie Sanders refuses to concede before the convention, I hope the DNC sticks to its guns and refuses him a prime time speaking slot.

The tears will be glorious, mostly because by that time they won't matter.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Republicans may have just forfeited half their Senate pickup chances

And by half, we mean one. But the fact we're writing about what looks like one, very-likely missed opportunity for Senate Republicans to unseat a Senate Democrat underscores just how tight their margin of error is to keep control of the Senate this year.

Republicans can't afford any mistakes, and Tuesday's GOP primary in Colorado looks like it qualifies. In that swing state, Sen. Michael Bennet is one of Senate Democrats' most vulnerable incumbents -- or at least he was supposed to be. Republicans stumbled to find a credible challenger, and a messy, chaotic primary ended Tuesday with the one candidate Senate Republican operatives really, really didn't want to win: El Paso County Commissioner Darryl Glenn.

Glenn is an Air Force veteran and self-described "unapologetic Christian constitutional conservative." He's a Donald Trump supporter (he has called Trump a "patriot") and a hard-line conservative who has said he wouldn't moderate his views in a general election nor would he work with Democrats if voters sent him to Washington.

That leaves national Republicans with a bad taste in their mouths. The last time they nominated a very conservative candidate to challenge Bennet in this swing state, they lost a winnable race in 2010. And it means Glenn's Senate campaign will probably be almost entirely funded by tea party groups that made him a factor in this primary in the first place. A Republican political aide said Glenn probably can't expect help from them in the general election.

In other words, Senate Republicans are basically writing off Colorado.
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Thanks for the help, Colorado GOP! Cheerio!
 
K

kess

Member
The glaring issue that Sanders fails to consider is that Brexit benefits the faceless 1% that he rails against because borrowing costs are going to increase. Closed markets and curtailed movement will come down hard on the working class, but his rigid ideology prevents him from recognizing the practical benefits of free trade. Already a "after Boris, us" mentality is pervading the British left, collateral damage justifying the means is a sociopathic trait common to all political radicals.
 
T

Tubie

Member
royalan said:
If Bernie Sanders refuses to concede before the convention, I hope the DNC sticks to its guns and refuses him a prime time speaking slot.

The tears will be glorious, mostly because by that time they won't matter.
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Yep, fuck him.

Trump being a racist lunatic, even more so than we all thought he was, is enough to bring the Bernie voters home.

Basically, Trump made Bernie irrelevant.

It's funny how Bernie could've gotten everything he wanted for the DNC platform and even a primetime speaking slot if he had dropped out before NY. Now he will be lucky to speak at all.
 
K

kess

Member
It's amazing how it's okay to fuck over ethnic minorities in the short them, as if that will constructively lead to a utopia in the long term.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon said:
I don't believe this is true. Some states receive extra delegates or fewer delegates depending on demographics. It's basically just up to the DNC to distribute the delegates.
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I did the math once based on number of registered Democrats per state and the number of delegates they got and it ended up being roughly equal per state (I think). Could be misremembering.

In any case, I don't think many people would complain about the selection process being MORE representative in theory than it already is, right?

BlastProcessing said:
1) You said that platform decisions would take place entirely at a convention. So you are talking about more than primaries and assure that minority issues are always diminished in their representation on that platform.

2) It's not just Black people or even ethnic minorities that would be affected. Any type of minority would be drastically under represented in that system.

3) Why would you have a primary system that deemphasizes the regional power of states to pick a candidate to run in a national election that is based on the regional power of states? New York and/or California would just keep selecting candidates who would get crushed nationally.
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1) Platform decisions don't matter at all actually. The nominee just does whatever she wants. Clinton's small business college loan deferral is an indication of pivoting toward attracting general election voters. How many lefties give a shit about small business? I got flak in here just suggesting that it was a big deal. Independents, meanwhile, eat that shit up like candy.
2) I don't understand how you think minorities are given a proper amount of representation in the current system. We already know that poor people can't afford to even show up to the delegation.
3) First off we don't currently have a primary system that emphasizes regional power, anyway. The Democratic party bases delegate counts on the number of votes cast in the last three elections and the number of electoral votes they get in the college (which is almost proportional but definitely skewed in favor of small states). Sounds like a roundabout thing to do when you can just count the votes. Low turnout means low effect. Higher impetus to vote.

Secondly, our system doesn't make candidates any more electable at all! Lol. If you really wanted electable candidates, you'd want semi-open primaries everywhere. Again, the average voter in South Carolina is vastly different from the average democratic primary voter in South Carolina. So if you really wanted a candidate that could swing those voters, you'd want independents for input or even Republicans. That would really disenfranchise the minority voice. So what's it going to be? Give minorities more of a voice to ensure they're represented or give them exactly the proportion of the voice they represent in order to have more competitive candidates?
 
U

User 85168

Banned
Have people been listening to Radiolab's More Perfect podcast? It's about SCOTUS and stories surrounding famous cases. This week's episode includes a profile on Edward Blum, who brought 6 civil rights suits to SCOTUS, including this week's Affirmative Action case and the one where they struck down parts of the Voting Rights Act. It is infuriating. He talks about recruiting "the perfect white student" for Fisher vs UT.

Then they also talk about a similar situation recruiting a 1/8th black man on purpose for Plessy v. Ferguson, and overall efforts by both sides to bypass legislatures on issues important to them.

I definitely recommend a listen.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolabmoreperfect
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Lee Bright, a senator here in South Carolina who introduced our bathroom bill, was beat in his primary. Bitch is gone. Oh, and he it was the dickwad who proposed keeping our confederate flag on the statehouse grounds after the Charleston shooting.


Good riddance to garbage.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
This is cool.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4060147-155/utahs-misty-snow-makes-history-as

Utah voters picked a historic, and largely unknown, Democratic candidate to challenge Sen. Mike Lee this November.

Misty K. Snow is likely the first transgender nominee from a major party to run in a congressional race in the United States.

"A lot of people have told me whether I win or lose, I'm already making a difference just by running," Snow said.

Throughout the primary, the 30-year-old candidate has given scant attention to her potentially historic status. She instead has campaigned on a progressive platform and promised to aggressively challenge Lee, whom she has repeatedly called "loathsome."

In unofficial primary returns, Snow had a 59.5 percent to 40.5 percent lead over Jonathan Swinton.
Click to expand...

Also, wait, Lee is only up by 14? What?

A poll in early June, commissioned by The Salt Lake Tribune and the Hinckley Institute of Politics, found that Lee holds a 51 percent to 37 percent lead on Snow. National political handicappers expect Utah's Senate seat to stay in GOP hands, but Snow believes she's in a strong starting position, particularly because most voters haven't heard of her.
Click to expand...

Also for a nobody cashier, she has a pretty thorough website, though I imagine most of the policy is lifted somewhat from Bernie's: http://www.mistyksnow.com/
 
N

Necrovex

Member
chiym1992 said:
Have people been listening to Radiolab's More Perfect podcast? It's about SCOTUS and stories surrounding famous cases. This week's episode includes a profile on Edward Blum, who brought 6 civil rights suits to SCOTUS, including this week's Affirmative Action case and the one where they struck down parts of the Voting Rights Act. It is infuriating. He talks about recruiting "the perfect white student" for Fisher vs UT.

Then they also talk about a similar situation recruiting a 1/8th black man on purpose for Plessy v. Ferguson, and overall efforts by both sides to bypass legislatures on issues important to them.

I definitely recommend a listen.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolabmoreperfect
Click to expand...

I will second that statement. Haven't listened to the latest episode but I have quite enjoyed what I have heard so far from them. On The Media and this show continue to show the genius at WNYC.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Snow is going to get crushed, but I'll volunteer for her. Maybe we can make Lee sweat for a second.

I do think an anti-abortion, anti-LGBT Democrat that was extremely progressive economically could have had some chance against Lee.

But yeah, Utah Dems are hardcore liberals.
 
S

StormBrute

Member
whyamihere said:
This is cool.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4060147-155/utahs-misty-snow-makes-history-as



Also, wait, Lee is only up by 14? What?



Also for a nobody cashier, she has a pretty thorough website, though I imagine most of the policy is lifted somewhat from Bernie's: http://www.mistyksnow.com/
Click to expand...
Hey, my state in the news for something good for once.

I can't really get a good feel for what people think of Mike Lee around here. People generally like Herbert and respect Hatch, but I don't hear as much about Lee.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Mike Tyson getting a prime speaking spot at the RNC would be one of the greatest things of all time.

I mean, what the hell would a Mike Tyson political speech even sound and look like? Nobody has any fucking clue and I'm excited as fuck.
 
K

kess

Member
What could possibly be problematic about stacking a political convention with notoriously unstable celebrity personalities that know jack-all about politics?
 
A

And_Gignac

Member
whyamihere said:
This is cool.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4060147-155/utahs-misty-snow-makes-history-as



Also, wait, Lee is only up by 14? What?



Also for a nobody cashier, she has a pretty thorough website, though I imagine most of the policy is lifted somewhat from Bernie's: http://www.mistyksnow.com/
Click to expand...

She is a Berniecrat, btw.

Chichikov said:
Brexit, therefore [insert stump speech].

That's such a weak-ass op-ed, and man, it's a true shame that he's trying to tie his progressive agenda (which again, I wholeheartedly support) to that terrible Leave vote.
Not to mention that looking at that vote through strictly UK economic lens misses the point.
Click to expand...



What Sanders is saying in his OP is practically the same thing some UK socialists like Owen Jones have been saying since Leave started to gain momentum. Leave was about angry voters (ignorantly relocating their anger with the closest otherness they could) being left behind by neoliberal exceses, that has mainly benefited college educated cosmopolitans. This is a thing that is happening in many countries. It cannot be a coincidence.

This doesnt mean ignoring the motivational racism in many of the Leavers or excusing their racism as a product of their economical victimhood, it means understanding that such bigotry is not developing in a vacuum and wonder why it seems to keep growing even when the current narrative of the western culture seems to be moving forward towards inclusiveness. It means to stop ignoring the economical decisions that are nurtering such disdain.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
plagiarize said:
I know I already responded to this, but this really highlights everything wrong with Bernie Sanders to me.


Why does Bernie Sanders think the UK voted leave because they're fed up with the 1% having all the money? I've heard people pushing for sovereignty of law. I've heard yet more people wanting to prevent eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work. I've heard no one saying 'I'm fed up of the global economy'. Does Bernie blame income inequality when he stubs his toe? Running a single issue campaign was always a misstep. Trying to bend that square peg to fit in any number of hole shapes didn't do the rest of his platform any favours. And he did have a platform beyond income inequality... but for whatever reason instead of mainly focussing on the anti immigrant rhetoric that Donald Trump and the Leave campaign shared, he leads this editorial and spends most of his time banging on about the richest 62 people and how this needs to be a wake up call for Democrats to stop supporting globalism.

Leave winning isn't a wake up call saying we should embrace a more liberal platform. It's a wake up call that we must ensure we stand against the nationalism and anti immigrant sentiment of people like Donald Trump. Fortunately the DNC and Clinton are running a much better and more substantive campaign than Corbyn and Remain did, but chickens should not be counted. Let's not forget that the Labour party's elected leader is far more radical liberal socialist than Bernie Sanders, and that having a democratic socialist in charge of the party and involved in the Remain campaign didn't do much of anything to prevent Leave from winning.

Our opposition party already has a Sanderesque leader and platform.

It did dick all to prevent Leave winning.
Click to expand...

Let’s be clear. The global economy is not working for the majority of people in our country and the world. This is an economic model developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. We need real change.

But we do not need change based on the demagogy, bigotry and anti-immigrant sentiment that punctuated so much of the Leave campaign’s rhetoric — and is central to Donald J. Trump’s message.

(...)

The notion that Donald Trump could benefit from the same forces that gave the Leave proponents a majority in Britain should sound an alarm for the Democratic Party in the United States. Millions of American voters, like the Leave supporters, are understandably angry and frustrated by the economic forces that are destroying the middle class.

In this pivotal moment, the Democratic Party and a new Democratic president need to make clear that we stand with those who are struggling and who have been left behind. We must create national and global economies that work for all, not just a handful of billionaires.
Click to expand...

The bigotry of Brexit and Trump and other euro-right movements didn't spring up because some racism comet passed overhead and made everyone racist. It's coming from residual effects of the great recession, where the intellectuals and elites did what they always do and focus all their energy into making sure the financial sector is happy and GDP is positive, and then declared victory and called it a day before doing anything about the working class.

So when they get fed up about their economic standing, it makes logical sense to ignore the intellectuals and elites that have a record of ignoring the working class. Unfortunately they're left with only their gut, so when a charismatic populist rises up and tells them it's the immigrants fault, that's what their gut is going to go with.

You do make a good point about Corbyn, and it does seem like leftest populism just didn't have the same appeal right-wing populism has in the UK, but the fact that Corbyn won leadership in the first place is in itself a result of the lack of trust toward the political elites thanks to their failures.

So maybe the answer isn't for an outsider to overthrow the elites like Bernie suggests, but the elites still need to stop the slide toward anti-intellectualism by addressing the problems they've largely ignored. And simply fighting for minimum wage to keep up with inflation like the democrats have been doing for decades isn't going to be enough.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
royalan said:
If Bernie Sanders refuses to concede before the convention, I hope the DNC sticks to its guns and refuses him a prime time speaking slot.

The tears will be glorious, mostly because by that time they won't matter.
Click to expand...

He really doesn't have a choice other than to stay in at this point. He blew his chance after California and DC to do it in a place where all eyes would be on him. The convention is the only time now where he'll have any sort of attention.
 
F

fauxtrot

Banned
The problem is that Bernie had every opportunity to touch upon the racism along with the socioeconomic aspects like some of you are doing for him, but he didn't... which makes me feel like he's (willfully or genuinely) ignorant to all of the contributing factors that led to Brexit. Neither is a good look for someone who wanted to be president, and this is coming from someone who voted for him in the primary.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
royalan said:
If Bernie Sanders refuses to concede before the convention, I hope the DNC sticks to its guns and refuses him a prime time speaking slot.

The tears will be glorious, mostly because by that time they won't matter.
Click to expand...
Let's take snapshots for November. If she wins, no biggie. If she loses, oh wow - it'll be fun to replay again and again and again to Hillary supporters.
 
M

Maledict

Member
disastermouse said:
Let's take snapshots for November. If she wins, no biggie. If she loses, oh wow - it'll be fun to replay again and again and again to Hillary supporters.
Click to expand...

Hillary has already given more than any previous winner of the primary process, despite winning by a large margin in every measure able sense. Why is it she always has to come crawling to Bernie?
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Holmes said:
Jamelle Bouie has an article on Slate about how Sanders overplayed his hand post-primary. It's a good read, and I agree with a lot of it. I think he should have at least conceded when the primaries ended. Now it's Clinton's and Warren's party.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Sanders had no hand following California. He simply stayed in too long. I think his peak was probably post Michigan but most likely Wisconsin. If he were really in for concessions, that'd be the time if he didn't think he could win NY (he thought he could) and California (which he secretly won, of course).

I don't blame Sanders for behaving like an actual candidate but I think it's more that he has no leverage and is kicking and screaming as people ignore him. That shot of Warren and Clinton on the trail while Bernie looks flatly forward in the PiP is really funny.

Go home, old man. You're drunk.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Y2Kev said:
Quinn out to embarrass itself again
Click to expand...

Their numbers are completely insane.

They have the Hispanic vote splitting 50/33. They actually think DONALD FREAKING TRUMP is going to do at least 6 points better than Romney did? And Hillary's going to do 21 points worse than Obama?

22% of 18-34 year olds are going to vote for Stein or Johnson...okay. More people are voting for Stein than have heard of her.

Only 3% of people say the most important quality in a president is experience.

61% of people say that this campaign has increased hatred in this country, and 67% of people who believe that think it's Trump's fault.
 
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