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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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Which military coup made a country better than its democratic past? Kristoffer's favorite "successful" coup in Egypt by Cici has killed hundreds of peotestors, jailed many more including AlJazeera reporters, executed MB members and has still Morsi in jail. History in the middle east always repeats itself.

Well Turkey and Portugal are examples.

Though I don't really want to come off as endorsing coups because I don't and it's incredibly hard to manufacture a realistic American scenario where one would be desirable (which is why I thought Pigeon's scenario wasn't sufficient).
 

Bowdz

Member
So let's say Trump wins the election, announces that he's going to put American Muslims in internment camps until they can be "vetted."

Obama says Trump is a danger to democracy and announces he's going to refuse to step down and hand over power.

Who would you support?

I've seen this before. If memory serves, Baltar ends up getting New Caprica into an occupation by the Cylons and ends up splitting the fleet. So the correct answer is go with President Roslin and Admiral Adams (I mean Obama.
 
What if all the Supreme Court justices refused to swear in the next President, whoever, and that person then sued on constitutional grounds, and the Supreme Court then rejected the arguments!

Just to be nitpicky, there's no Constitutional requirement that the person administering the oath be a member of the Supreme Court. Calvin Coolidge was sworn in by his own father who was a notary public, for example.
 

pigeon

Banned
Well the premise suggests that those legal processes break down. The USA isn't in that situation thankfully, but there are countries (like perhaps Turkey) where a coup may be the only way to prevent a leader from becoming an autocrat.

Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not assuming that yet. I assume that the answer to "Trump wants to do something illegal, gets impeached, refuses to step down and is jailed" is that everybody is fine with that, basically. I don't really see why you wouldn't be.

I think the more interesting question is whether you'd accept more dramatic action before that point. Because, like, as noted, if you put all your trust into assuming that at some point Trump will run up against the normal processes of government and be stopped, at some level you are assuming that the military will side with you and against their democratically elected Commander-in-Chief, because ultimately the military is the last backstop of governing order.

So, I mean, what are you willing to bet on that?
 

Effect

Member
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/754121501729849344
CnctMKlWgAA-v1r.jpg
 

Iolo

Member
I've seen this before. If memory serves, Baltar ends up getting New Caprica into an occupation by the Cylons and ends up splitting the fleet. So the correct answer is go with President Roslin and Admiral Adams (I mean Obama.

Roslin couldn't go through with rigging the election, even when she knew the stakes.

She's no Hillary Clinton.
 
Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not assuming that yet. I assume that the answer to "Trump wants to do something illegal, gets impeached, refuses to step down and is jailed" is that everybody is fine with that, basically. I don't really see why you wouldn't be.

I think the more interesting question is whether you'd accept more dramatic action before that point. Because, like, as noted, if you put all your trust into assuming that at some point Trump will run up against the normal processes of government and be stopped, at some level you are assuming that the military will side with you and against their democratically elected Commander-in-Chief, because ultimately the military is the last backstop of governing order.

So, I mean, what are you willing to bet on that?

Well it's incredibly hard to imagine the US military staging a coup because of its institutional history, especially at such an early point before things really fall apart. It'd probably be more likely that discredit and humiliate a President giving illegal orders by refusing to obey rather than occupying DC and directly removing him from office. US institutions aren't at the point where a Trump Presidency would require military action to protect the Republic. Trump being President would be awful, but I don't see how it raises a real question of whether extralegal actions would be warranted unless you really escalate the scenario.
 
Just to be nitpicky, there's no Constitutional requirement that the person administering the oath be a member of the Supreme Court. Calvin Coolidge was sworn in by his own father who was a notary public, for example.
Until the Supreme Court rules it is a requirement.....

....

Yeah, I got nothing. I'm just being goofy.
 
Pigeon, if you say "I mean" one more time...
Also I don't understand why people (ok, just Kris) are suggesting the military has a mandate to replace the president. We have a legal process when the President commits an unlawful act, it's called impeachment and it's Congress' job to indict, try and convict! The military need never get involved unless it is to refuse illegal orders.

Unless you think we needed a military coup to get rid of Nixon.
Hey, not me either. Trump would have to act in an incredibly extreme fashion to warrant coup. I think pigeon's question was dumb.
 
Senator Marco Rubio had a lot of good stuff to say on CNN tonight. Smart guy in general. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all Republicans are cavemen.
 

Tarkus

Member
Senator Marco Rubio had a lot of good stuff to say on CNN tonight. Smart guy in general. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all Republicans are cavemen.
Yeah, I've been preaching it for some time. Republican = evil racist troglodyte on poligaf though.
 
Well thanks for givin it to me straig...errr...bluntly

Mwahahahaha.

Also, Fam?

I know none of you will trust me on this....

BUT. Go out and get a bottle of Smirnoff Red, White and Berry vodka. It taste just like a red, white and blue Popsicle. The guy I'm dating bought me a bottle, and I managed like 3 shots and I never do shots. If you lvoe freedom, buy it. .
 
Mwahahahaha.

Also, Fam?

I know none of you will trust me on this....

BUT. Go out and get a bottle of Smirnoff Red, White and Berry vodka. It taste just like a red, white and blue Popsicle. The guy I'm dating bought me a bottle, and I managed like 3 shots and I never do shots. If you lvoe freedom, buy it. .

Thanks, will keep in mind to avoid that.
 
So, I'm listening to Dana Loesch on youtube and she is making some very sound and solid arguments on pro-gun. I can't say I agree with everything and I haven't fact checked it, but I find it a little bizarre that I'm finding myself agreeing with her more often than not. Except for not wanting any change to our background check right now, I think her position is strong and convincing.

Anyone familiar with her?

Senator Marco Rubio had a lot of good stuff to say on CNN tonight. Smart guy in general. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all Republicans are cavemen.

IMO it is not a good thing when Donald Trump criticizes you and he's mostly right. I hope he loses his seat in the senate this November. Floridians, please.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Did this get shared? It's fantastic.

New York Times - Chris Christie Lost Out on the Job He Wanted. And His Bad Year Got Worse.
“Black Thursday,” one of Gov. Chris Christie’s least favorite local newspaper columnists called it, under a headline that declared it his “worst day ever.” At the least, it was the New Jersey governor’s terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

On Thursday morning, one of his closest confidants pleaded guilty to a felony charge of abusing power at the agency that Mr. Christie tapped him to lead. By that afternoon, federal prosecutors had charged a former cabinet official in connection with the same case, which spun out of the George Washington Bridge lane-closing scandal that has dogged Mr. Christie for nearly three years.

Then he did not get the job he had been publicly pining for, and on which he had pinned his hopes of political resuscitation. Donald J. Trump, who is expected to become the Republican nominee for president next week, picked someone else as his running mate, despite an endorsement that dragged Mr. Christie’s poll numbers to record lows at home and alienated him from moderate Republicans he once called friends.

And that was before a storm knocked down a tree and power line outside Mr. Christie’s house, starting a fire beside it. When a local television station asked the governor if he still had electricity, he gave a thumbs down, which might have been answering the question, or summing up the previous several hours, or months.
“He was such a lap dog and tried for it so hard, he ended up not just losing badly in the presidential stakes — I think he just looks much weaker than he was before by his rabid pursuit of Trump,” said Ed Rollins, a longtime Republican strategist who is now advising a “super PAC” supporting Mr. Trump. “It was not a glorious couple of years here, or for the citizens of the state.”
 
Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not assuming that yet. I assume that the answer to "Trump wants to do something illegal, gets impeached, refuses to step down and is jailed" is that everybody is fine with that, basically. I don't really see why you wouldn't be.

I think the more interesting question is whether you'd accept more dramatic action before that point. Because, like, as noted, if you put all your trust into assuming that at some point Trump will run up against the normal processes of government and be stopped, at some level you are assuming that the military will side with you and against their democratically elected Commander-in-Chief, because ultimately the military is the last backstop of governing order.

So, I mean, what are you willing to bet on that?

Most recent precedent in the US is Nixon. He'd have been impeached and convicted and it just wouldn't be his job anymore. He'd have no recognition and nobody would follow him. He knew he wouldn't be able to win, so he just quit, though.
 

shem935

Banned
Yeah, I've been preaching it for some time. Republican = evil racist troglodyte on poligaf though.

Okay its one thing when people change avatars, that's upsetting. When you have the exact same avatar as another poster, that is unacceptable. Please remedy this situation.
 

Iolo

Member
Mwahahahaha.

Also, Fam?

I know none of you will trust me on this....

BUT. Go out and get a bottle of Smirnoff Red, White and Berry vodka. It taste just like a red, white and blue Popsicle. The guy I'm dating bought me a bottle, and I managed like 3 shots and I never do shots. If you lvoe freedom, buy it. .

It looks like you worked through the three shots while writing that paragraph.
 

Emarv

Member
Just to be nitpicky, there's no Constitutional requirement that the person administering the oath be a member of the Supreme Court. Calvin Coolidge was sworn in by his own father who was a notary public, for example.
Trump sworn in by Mike Tyson confirmed!
 
So let's say Trump wins the election, announces that he's going to put American Muslims in internment camps until they can be "vetted."

Obama says Trump is a danger to democracy and announces he's going to refuse to step down and hand over power.

Who would you support?

Obama. Fuck it.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Your.
Party.
Nominated.
Trump.

Not only that but from the look of it most of the party has fallen in line. I've got more respect for Romney and the Bushes, who have said they won't be voting Trump, than I do for the average Republican right now. At least they can see what Trump represents and the sort of damage it can and will do to the nation and their party if he gets elected. He's doing enough damage as the nominee.
 

Emarv

Member
Man, I had always thought that Christie wanted something besides VP. Don't know why, but I thought he was smarter than just holding out all hope for something he wouldn't get. This is hilarious.

I fully expect some bitter leaks to start pouring out from Christie & camp. Shit's gonna get real, hopefully.
 
Man, I had always thought that Christie wanted something besides VP. Don't know why, but I thought he was smarter than just holding out all hope for something he wouldn't get. This is hilarious.

I fully expect some bitter leaks to start pouring out from Christie & camp. Shit's gonna get real, hopefully.

The guy was desperate, he had already ruined his political career before he joined Trump, so really the idea that he hurt himself with this is overblown. Dropping from approval ratings in the 30s to the 20s hardly makes a difference, the guy had already set fire to the state Republican Party a year ago.
 
If I'm ever elected President, I'm going to take the oath on a Harry Potter book. Just because.
Which one? This is critical.

Senator Marco Rubio had a lot of good stuff to say on CNN tonight. Smart guy in general. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all Republicans are cavemen.
Let's dispel with the fiction that Marco Rubio doesn't know what he's doing.

It must be nice to be graded on a curve.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
See I was just under the impression that Christy just liked carrying Trump's water.

He could start a men's cologne line.
Desperation: a new fragrance by Chris Christy
 
Senator Marco Rubio had a lot of good stuff to say on CNN tonight. Smart guy in general. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all Republicans are cavemen.

I actually have more disdain for the smart guys who stand with and try to manipulate the cavemen. In my opinion, people like Rubio, Ryan, and Gingrich are more corrosive to functional democracy than the cavemen ever could be.
 
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